MichaelLiao
Jan 30, 2012
I haven't read much from Watchmen Nee, but have his daily devotionals. For me it is a genuine blessing for my soul.
And what I think about him being a false teacher, people call everybody that is disagreeing with them a false teacher.
Some say John Wesley is a false teacher, others say it about Charles Finney. Some say it about Jonathan Edwards, soms say it about Ravenhill, some say it about Paul Washer. Some say that Tim Conway is a false teacher (I heard some people in my friend-group who are saying this) Probably all are wrong on one point or the other, but that doesn't make you a false teacher I think.
False teacher is somebody who's hard is false and out of his false heart, comes false teachings and a false life. A false teaching brings you away from Christ. A false teaching make you spiritual sick.
I don't believe wachtman nee is that on those 2 points you shared. But I haven't read enough of him to give a good 'judgement' upon that. So maybe you should just pray about it en read scripture a lot more that you read other books. And if you are then reading a book, the Spirit will convict you if that man (of somebody else) is false and then you put it away.
Michael
I was greatly blessed by reading The Normal Christian Life because Lee showed me the way to abide in Christ instead of what I had known following the teaching of the `other camp` the ones who say Nee was a false teacher. I had known great yearnings for holiness and having a pure heart, but the Reformed teachers could not tell me how to achieve it apart from saying that I already have these things. In my heart however I knew that no matter how hard I tried, I was failing too be what God required of me but the problem was my heart. I had started off well but after the honeymoon, things went downhill.
Nee explained to me that this was the usual way when one was not getting the right teaching on what Christ achieved on the cross. His teaching is what is known as Keswick doctrine after a town in England where camp meetings were held and a modified form of holiness teachings became popular. Andrew Murray was one of the instigators. Do some googling.
Holiness teaching differs in claiming that a believer can have the sin nature destroyed but Keswick only goes so far as to say it is subdued and they do not emphasise the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Along with many of his time Nee was premill. and I disagree with him on that and a few other points but his main thrust in saying that there are two levels of Christianity is what gave me freedom and brought me close to Christ. His book is hotly opposed by Satan for this reason.
hi,every teacher is a false teacher...len ravenhill told me not to just take what he said as truth but to be studious and check him out with the word.he said he and all the other preachers make mistakes and i have found out after 48 years of ministry ,i have even said some stupid things that i thought were gospel...unbelievable...eat the fish and spit out the bones and dont worry about whos this or that...worry about yourself... the only one i have not seen in error is primadogma...jimp
Michael: I have been greatly blessed by Watchman Nee. The man had an understanding of some things that was phenomenal. I have read the Norman Christian Life, The Norman Christian Church Life, and am partway through the Spiritual Man. I am not sure what these gentlemen have against him. I will say that while I have never read anything by Nee that comes up as a red flag I know he did not have it all right. But given my experience with him I will eat the good meat and if I run across a bone I will leave it alone. I never heard Nee promote carnality in the life of a believer. In fact, I clearly hear him saying the opposite.
"dont worry about whos this or that...worry about yourself..."
True, we will answer only for ourselves on Judgment Day, but fundamentalists will be rewarded according to how zealously they bludgeoned heretics, compromisers, emergents, contemplative pray-ers, sodomites, papists and liberals. I expect to receive a heresy-hunter's crown ten miles high with 1,000,000,000 jewels in it.
Nee was a false teacher because he did not bow before my Credal Authority. The fact that I was 4 when he died is no excuse.
The Chinese Christians are all members of the One True Church. The reason they fight so much is that China has about 100 One True Churches.
There are False Teachers and then there are deceived ones. There is a difference. There are many deceived teachers among the most devoted men, today. Good men can be deceived.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I Thess 5:21
Watchman Nee was arrested by the Chinese Communists in March 1952 for his professed faith in Christ as well as his leadership among the local churches. He was judged, condemned, and sentenced in 1956 to fifteen years' imprisonment. During this entire time, only his wife was allowed to visit him.
In his final letter, written on the day of his death, he alluded to his joy "in the Lord":
"In my sickness, I still remain joyful at heart." He died in confinement in his cell on May 30, 1972. After Watchman Nee's death, when his niece came to collect his few possessions, she was given a scrap of paper that a guard had found by his bed.
What was written on that scrap may serve as Watchman Nee's testament.
"Christ is the Son of God Who died for the redemption of sinners and was resurrected after three days. This is the greatest truth in the universe. I die because of my belief in Christ. Watchman Nee."
Watchman Nee did have one unique doctrinal stance. He proposed that all the Christians in a geographical region all belong to the same local church. In other words, in a region there is only ONE church. He bases this on the fact that Paul addresses his epistles to THE CHURCH at Corinth, Phillipi, Colassae, etc. I would note however that Paul did not start the book of Romans with that greeting, probably because Rome was a huge city around that time (50 A.D.). Watchman Nee was not a fan of denominationalism nor am I. But to insist that all believers in a geographical area MUST assemble as the one and only true (local) church is an invitation to abuse and CULTISHNESS. Watchman's friend Witness Lee did just that with this teaching. Witness started a church in the Los Angeles area and are known as the "little flock." They were written about in one chapter of a book covering cults entitled "The Mind Benders." Witness Lee and his church are indeed a cult and Witness likes to name-drop his association with Watchman all the time so beware. Don't think Watchman was a heretic because one of his followers later became one.
Here is an online Watchman Nee resource that has capsule summaries of all his books and other helpful info:
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Watchman_Nee.htm
Now, Nee's co-worker Witness Lee I have some problems with, that's for sure
Can anyone here list out all the controversies that surrounds Watchman Nee in order that I may have greater insight in this matter and also have scriptural discernment about his writings.
Watchmen Nee has blessed me in the past too. The Normal Christian is a wonderful book. Regarding Nee's flaws - why contaminate the beautiful blessing by digging through the trenches. It may be best to simply move on in your faith journey. Read other writers, and keep on studying your Scripture with diligence.
Regarding Nee's flaws - why contaminate the beautiful blessing by digging through the trenches. It may be best to simply move on in your faith journey. Read other writers, and keep on studying your Scripture with diligence.
Amen to that roadsign
david
Watchman Nee has a wonderful life as a witness for Christ. His life will greatly bless us and encourage us. I have taken a decision recently to read the life testimony (autobiography) of such men of God instead of reading their teachings. There are so many instances in his life that will encourage us to be humble like him.
I believe in Bro Zac Poonen's teachings, I find it consistent and the spirit inside me testifies its validity. Reading any other preacher's teaching will only confuse me. So it is better to follow one teacher rather than reading many and using our intelligence to selectively accept their teachings. This is dangerous and human mind can be deceived.
My advice to Poster will be to stop reading Watchman Nee's teachings if he does not have full confidence in them. It is better to take this stand rather than using human wisdom to selectively accept his teachings.
I have to wonder? Last week it was Youcef Nadarkhani. This week Watchman Nee. Who will it be next week? Richard Wormbrandt. If you look hard enough I am sure Paul Washer woukd be considered a false teacher. Some are calling into question the truth that John MacArthur and J. Vern McGher expounded. Soon we will be questioning whether Jesus himself was a false teacher.
Honestly when will this nonsense stop and we thank God for the wonderful saints who have spoken the word to us?
Blaine Scogin
Watchman Nee taught on a deeper Spiritual Life, and his writings usually explore that tenor. His most popular book,THE SPIRITUAL MAN, is an attempt to dissect and identify the spiritual nature of maturity in Christ.
After publication, Nee wrote a disclaimer, "That it is too perfect."...meaning, he had attempted to put God in a box. He wrote many, many books...yes, but that is not all he accomplished. Nee established an apostolic work in China, established just before the Communist takeover by Mao. Nee was arrested, and imprisoned, and remained there until the early seventies..[ 1972 circa ]...and was released sick...and died a few months later.
He ended up, as it were, giving all for the gospel. He had a family, and dear friends in the Church. T. Austin-Sparks was the only man that Nee ever submitted to, as a mentor-pastor. T. Austin Sparks was as sound a Bible Teacher as they come, and my mentor.
Some say there are two souls that affected China to the core; J. Hudson Taylor, and Watchman Nee. I have read all of Nee that I could get my hands on, and to castigate him for a perceived idea about a scripture or too is foolish. He is no way a heretic, but as you and I, may have had different views about the scriptures....possibly a "work in progress" attitude.
Before a Mission trip to China, to the underground church, I interviewed a Chinese National living in LA, who knew both Watchman Nee, and T. Austin Sparks. This individual and his wife were sent to Taiwan just before the crackdown/persecution came down...[ Nee was imprisoned.] Nee laid hands on him.
Eventually, much of this church went to the Philippines, and many to America. Nee deducted from scripture that the only church according to the Word, was the local church for that one geographic area; ONE CHURCH. ONE CITY.
He later repented of this idea, with TAS's help, but there was a church split with Witness Lee basically leading a cult. This still goes on today.
There is also a rift in the Chinese church today, deriving from the leadership of Nee's local church, that ALL supernatural activities of the Holy Spirit are from Satan, and to be rejected. I encountered this also in China.
I recommend Watchman Nee to anyone. He is very cerebral, often, and very strong in his opinions as teaching...but, so are all great Bible teachers. Eat the meat; spit out the bones....but I promise that you will be fed. He served the Lord in his generation as a shining light.
"Love Not the World" was a very influential book by Watchman Nee, in my life. I still go back from time to time to reference it. He shows very clearly how all the institutions of the world lie in wickedness, no matter how good and altruistic they may be. He goes well beyond insitutions, too. He talks about many things that young Christians should be aware of concerning the things of this world.
When I sit down to read a book, I never go around interviewing people about the author before I read the book. Let the Holy Spirit guide you. You can get tied up in knots looking for man's approval.
Pilgrim
Good word Pilgrim.
"When I sit down to read a book, I never go around interviewing people about the author before I read the book. Let the Holy Spirit guide you. You can get tied up in knots looking for man's approval."..Pilgrim777
Much needed thought, and right on!
Hi Pilgrim;
Quote: """"Love Not the World" was a very influential book by Watchman Nee, in my life. I still go back from time to time to reference it. He shows very clearly how all the institutions of the world lie in wickedness, no matter how good and altruistic they may be. He goes well beyond insitutions, too. He talks about many things that young Christians should be aware of concerning the things of this world."""
Sounds like someone else I have read. Yes, Paul, was in the same situation. The world wants it its own way, not Gods way. Watchman Nee is in the same boat. Pauls whole of Life after his experience on the road with the risen Lord, made Paul, always in all his writings give the "In Christ" Gospel his only foundation for teaching, nothing but Christ and Him Crucified and in the believer. Nee was a very strong student of Paul also, pretty good company he kept. This is it in a nutshell, "Christ in you the hope of Glory". Paul and Nee both suffer in this equasion, trying to word after word preach the In Christ Gospel, which is a hard thing to understand, as Peter stated of Paul, These are my foundation for all that Paul speaks and Nee also; Colossians 1:23-29 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
All of Eph 1,2,3
Pilgrim, I am still trying to get my mind around your post from Jeremiah through the Jordan. I pray it is prophetic, that is all my hearts desire, that I get a well done, good and faithful servant. All my life tears whel up when I see good win over darkness. I don't know if I would have made a good soldier, but I sure know I would try. I am a good pilot with 10,000 hrs of flying, my age bracket just missed all conflicts in which I could have used myskills for good and God. I don't deserve a "well done", but the Christ in me does, that is where I must keep the Faith and trust in Him.
Thanks for your post, I am still working with it.
In Christ: Phillip
"When I sit down to read a book, I never go around interviewing people about the author before I read the book. Let the Holy Spirit guide you. You can get tied up in knots looking for man's approval."..Pilgrim777
Great point Pilgrim and Brothertom.
It's amazing to me lately how quickly some folks will throw a believer in the trash over a doctrinal issue. The label 'false teacher' is getting thrown around very flippantly lately and the trend is disturbing to say the least.
Frankly, I don't know of any ministry that is getting it 100% right, we all have some kind of doctrinal issues that when we get to glory we'll find out weren't 100% correct. **Thanks God for mercy** We do our best in good faith.
Peace to all of you!
I read somwhere that Watchman Nee was only saved for 5 yrs when he wrote The Spiritual Man. I think that's wonderful.
Never judge a person by how long they've been saved.
I've read most of his books when young in Christ and other than his eschatology, I feel it's protected me from pentecostal counterfeit extremes and he was the best on the 'dying to self' teaching, I believe.
The only book that I heard that came against him - claimed he was too "mystical". Far from it. His writings truly did shield me from 'spiritual obsession', has he called it.
I learned something from bro Zac Poonen. When I read something or listen to someone I should first catch the spirit behind the letter (or sermon) and then the letter or doctrine itself.
I better have fellowship with a man with a heart full of love for God and with small doctrinal issues than with a man with perfect doctrine but empty heart.
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