Headcvering Q

I was just wondering if anyone here had wisdom on the women's headcovering issue.I cover my head sometimes, in prayer while I'm alone for instance.Maybe this topic has been covered already? (no pun intended)

I've been on the fence for quite some time on this issue. I didn't say it earlier, but I too have noticed or observed what you have Krispy, regarding women who cover.I know personally speaking, that when I do cover I feel and seem to act different (more humble, watch my thoughts closely, more in touch with the Holy Spirit?) and I do think that the Holy Spirit has been working on me about it. I know some people view it as a work or legalism, which indeed it is not IMO.Although, I suppose like everything else, it boils down to a persons motivation. Part of the reason I think I have not covered more, or in public view- is out of my own fear & pride... let's see if I can explain... I think I have been afraid of looking different or looking like I'm trying to be holier than thou or a weirdo, I don't even Jesus fish my car, out of FEAR I won't be a Godly example, (I think.)As far as covering as I'm personally led, if I'm convicted but I don't do it- then I'm out of God's will, right? Is my not covering a pride thing do you think? Afraid of looking different? But aren't we to be different? Set apart from the world?I desire to be obediant, more submissive and pleasing to my Lord and my husband. I desire to follow the Word closely and to draw nearer to Him. Always. FTR: I know the headcovering itself is just fabric, not magic. Any other wisdom, experience ideas? Leadings?

Denny Kenaston of Charity Ministries has a teaching on head covering that you may want to listen too, you can find it at the following link;Biblical Principles on the Headship VeilingIn Christ,Ron

The church of which I am part had always encouraged the men to uncover their heads! (oh, and has always encouraged the sisters to cover their heads) Did you notice that I am using the order that Paul used in 1 Cor 11? When you consider that all Jewish men covered their heads in worship, and a high priest was disqualified if he uncovered his head (Lev 21:10), surely we should be asking the question 'why did Paul go against generations of tradition and risk massive offence to the Jews by forbidding men to use a 'covering'?I differ in a good few points in my understanding from Denny Kenaston, but one of the main areas is the setting in which covering of heads is appropriate; Kenaston is saying that 'covering' should be the pattern at all times. I think the deep significance of the symbol has to do primarily with the church and its Head, and that 'covering' is really only appropriate in the setting of the 'whole church coming together'.A friend of mine wrote this booklet on the topic some years ago and I put it into a pdf document. It is worth reading; a sign of authority

Hi and thanks for the replies,Real quick to clarify: Actually I meant possible pride (by NOT covering, not by covering) I didn't explain myself too well. Sort of like, I'm caring too much how I look (maybe I want to be - on some level-fashionable/cool/stylish/attractive?) with my hair & head uncovered. And the pride part is of caring what people think before or over what God thinks.Because if I wear a headcovering publicly = people notice, might "think" I'm dressing odd, or have odd beliefs, or that I'm acting like I think I'm holier- or that I want to be like the local Amish, maybe putting on a show (which I do not- would not be- by the way, lol.)I don't want to put what people think, and my fear of not fitting in or looking out of place, to come before what God wants me to do, and what He thinks.As it is my hair draws some attention, if I don't keep it up.Thank you so much for the responses, and for the link. I'm having trouble downloading anything right now, but I look forward to looking into some of the downloads and such soon. :-D KrispyKrittr wrote:

I know personally speaking, that when I do cover I feel and seem to act different (more humble, watch my thoughts closely, more in touch with the Holy Spirit?) and I do think that the Holy Spirit has been working on me about it. I know some people view it as a work or legalism, which indeed it is not IMO.Well... faith leads to good works in Christ. So yea, it is a work sorta thing, but not unto salvation. Instead it may be a result of salvation. (i.e. obedience)As to whether you're struggling with pride, thats something only the Holy Spirit can show you.If it does become a source of pride, then you would need to stop, at least in public. Thats why I dont like to pray in group settings... I can sense my pride rising up... "they probably think I'm quite spiritual cuz I pray so well...". That kind of thing.Krispy

I'm impressed by your desire to serve God fully. I enjoyed reading your posts. As far as 1 Cor. 11 goes, I'm convinced it's referring to a covering (material) besides the hair. How that applies to our culture today - still undecided on that one.

Ron , you speak at alot of different churches. How do you handle it when this subject or question is brought up to you almost as if the local pastor wants you to take sides on this issue covering or not for women?

As it is my hair draws some attention, if I don't keep it up.That's one of the reasons behind 'covering'! ;-)

Ron , you speak at alot of different churches. How do you handle it when this subject or question is brought up to you almost as if the local pastor wants you to take sides on this issue covering or not for women?I try to handle in more privately, if it is raised. I have never raised the topic but I am a fairly free spirit (I prefer cords and open necked shirt to suits) and folks are often surprised when they realise that the church of which I am part encourages uncovering/covering. They have it in mind that such gatherings must be very formal. Our own church meetings are all 'open', without order of service or named preachers, other than visiting preachers.I try to talk to pastors/elders privately on contentious or controversial issues. When I am in another church I consciously place myself and whatever I may have at the disposal of the eldership in that place. I think of Paul and Barnabas putting their 'gifts' in the elders' hands. (Acts 11:30) I function on this website in the same spirit. I feel it is the eldership that will have to give an account for their souls. Some of the meetings I preach in are not gathering of the 'church' as seen in 1 Corinthians. A teaching seminar, an evangelistic rally... these are not the gathered church.I re-read the link document that I posted on 'a sign of authority' last night and feel that the man has the measure of this whole issue very clearly. For G W North and myself the 'ordinance' is a church ordinance and not a general instruction for life-style. I was surprised at how much my own thoughts had paralled his in many areas. I note that the Denny Kenaston audio file that Ron referred to mentioned the 'covering of the glory' briefly but did not develop it. My thoughts would be that this is the main significance of the ordinance.In Christ, God's glory is unveiled. In the church, God's glory is veiled; it doth not yet appear... The woman represents the whole church, and her glory is consciously veiled at this time. The man represents the Man, and He is gloriously re-veal-ed and not to be covered. If you haven't had time to read the pdf, I really would recommend it. There is no legalism in it, but some profound thoughts.If you don't have time to read that there is a 3 page leaflet, by an Englishman living in Vancouver, which introduces the topic well called Concerning Head-covering - Chauvinism or Commandment?

I try to handle in more privately, if it is raised. I have never raised the topic but I am a fairly free spirit (I prefer cords and open necked shirt to suits) and folks are often surprised when they realise that the church of which I am part encourages uncovering/covering. They have it in mind that such gatherings must be very formalThere is a lot of ignorance of this topic in many Christian churches here in the US. Actually, there is an increasing tendency to gather in a more casual dress all together. It is not uncommon to see women wear jeans to church in ways that would have made my great grandmother cringe. I was in a service once in which a woman was teaching on finding a marriage partner. I made the mistake of saying that it would have been awesome to have known what it was like to have a relationship with our spouses as Abraham and Sarah - who referred to Abraham as 'lord.' That went over like a lead balloon and is still a sticking point some 4 or 5 years later. Occasionally the issue comes up and invariably it gets blown off by saying, "Well, we don't know how she called him that." And then a few derogatory scenerios depecting her using the word disrespectfully are given. In this I am pointing out that there is a serious lapse in these concepts of headship that need to be recovered. Any ideas where to begin?God Bless,-RObert

I think what a lot of this issue is going to boil down to is pride, and you really have to boil it down to get that far. The world is NOT going to want to see it that way or admit to it but there it (usually) is.What are we talking about here, whether or not you wear a veil covering on your head when you pray or prophesy as a woman? Well rather than a simple piece of cloth, you'd think we were talking about physically violating a woman the way some of them take offense!"Don't you tell ME what to do" is the attitude du century, be it something frakly small like a head covering, or farily large and significant like being in submission to ones husband.Now whether or not head coverings are actual coverings or the hair of a woman is a matter for debate that I'm not sure on myself, but more importantly I ask, "is it such a big thing" to just put one on if that's the way your church leans or the Spirit leads?Really? Is it SUCH A BIG DEAL??And what are the benefits of such? Well for one, I can pretty much guarantee a spirit of humility which is something Christ loves to see in all of us. No woman will be able to take that veil and put it on her head without feeling a sense of coming down before her Lord and Savior which is what we should ALL have, men and women alike.But instead what is it a matter of? Pride. "Why should I have to do it when HE doesn't?"I liked the comment someone made to their group about how nice it'd be if we could discover the kind of relationship Abraham and Sarah had. The marriages of that day had a solidity I fear we in this day and age can not POSSIBLY know. It's a shame that such a statement could be received so poorly and why is that?"Only by pride cometh contention."We live in a terribly Godless age where men will not be men with their families and the women are only too happy to step up and take that role they were not designed for. Men too full of themselves to step up to their responsibilities and women likewise full doing what they ought not. Lord give us more women who will simply say "A veil? Sounds like no big deal... why not?"

Lord give us more women who will simply say "A veil? Sounds like no big deal... why not?"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. (Psa 40:7-8 KJV)spot the difference? ;-)

It's between you and God, I'm just saying that we need to do a "motivation" check.)I heard a message once in which the minister said he believed that Absalom's long hair was the symbol of his rebellion; I know that is not true for all men who let their hair grow out, etc., but I do agree that we need to check our motives. Many things are done to make a statement. Sometimes they are quite innocent. Sometimes they are a symbol of rebellion. Anytime a person comes into the house of God with the intention of being 'seen' of men (or women) they are effectively dividing the worship (that is not original). We should always be quite careful to not do that. This is why I sometimes have a hard time 'dressing up.' I went in a local men's store and walked out because everything I saw it seemed was designed to gain attention or complements. Maybe I was too sensitive. But when God is trying to send revival we may do well to dress in sackloth. As for the earlier comment on headship Iw as not intending to spark a secondary debate of the role of women, I was merely touching on the situation to give a context for making changes. God Bless,-Robert

But when God is trying to send revival we may do well to dress in sackloth.PREACH IT!! :-D

Robert wrote: Any ideas where to begin?Well for starters, I would never 'defend' coverning, but would declare it with joy. I am very tempted to regard it as an ordinance on a par with Baptism and The Lord's Supper. Like them it is a powerful and beautiful symbol. When a woman is covered in the gathered church it is symbolic of the whole church being 'covered'; not yet revealed in her true glory. It is a way of saying 'Don't look at the church's glory'. The 'uncovered man' is symbolic of the Man being revealed, and says 'Look at the Man, Look at the Man'. The woman's covering is symbolic of the whole church including the male; in the woman's covering I am hidden too. When I glance around the gathering and see the coverings it is a powerful reminder of whose church it is, and who is to be revealed here... not the men, certainly not the preacher, but the Man. It tells me I am safe while I am covered, and in this my sisters are serving me. In very many ways the real question is the other half of the command. Greeks were indifferent, as regards both men and women, to covering in worship. Neither covered their heads. The Roman priests diligently covered their heads. Their is a very famous statue of the emperor Augustus in the role of Pontefex Maximus, Rome's High Priest: he is veiled. Rome's Pontifex Maximus is still covered. Jewish priests were disqualified if they uncovered their heads (Lev 21:10) Why would Paul risk offending all these groups in one stroke by saying that the woman should wear a covering and the man should not?The answer has to be that something has changed. In previous times God had always been 'veiled', but in Christ the veil is removed and God is seen in human-ness in all His glory. To re-cover the man would be a tacit denial of the incarnation, when we beheld His glory...There is an underlying theme of authority running through 1 Corinthians. The saints were living their lives under the authority of their personal choices and rights; each one says 'I'. This is why Paul speaks about the cross in the life of the saint; the end of my right to myself. My life is no longer my own it is under the authority of another. The gathered church is to reveal this truth; it is His church, and His alone. It is not my opinion but His authority that is to shine there. In the church I have no rights to personal expression or opinion; it is His church. The church does not exist as a stage for my personal revelation or self-expression, look at me, look at me. Seen in its right perspective and without ostentation, the covered sister is a steady reminder of all this. I am constantly grateful to them.