Is religiousity killing US?

I have had this on my mind for quite a while and I was struck yesterday after hearing an interview of a guy who heads up Reformed Theology seminary. I googled reformed theology to see what that even is. All I could make out what something about Calvinism. Then I thought about the arguments I have heard about Calvinism and everyone else. It boils down to fights creating divisions within the church.

Well, how much is this kind of silliness really killing us? Personally, I have stepped away from pre- post- trib stuff. I don't concern myself with arguing over tongues and baptism anymore. Why? Because it serves only to kill the fellow christian over nonsense. Scripture talks about speaking with tongues of angels, prophesying and doing all these Godly things but if you do not have love you are nothing. HOw much can we say of this in the Christian world? Or maybe Christianity in America?

Steve Brown has a slogan "Three Free Sins' which is just a little joke yet how many people probably get hell bent out of shape as a result. Would you get bent out of shape? In the religious mind it appears that sin isn't taken seriously with such a slogan but really, come one, should one really bent out of shape over such a thing?

How often have you ever engaged in ridiculous conversations of forms of baptism? tongues and its use, music in the church, the way you pray and so forth. Have you ever been so divided over it that it ruined a friendship? And then what about those who aren't christians? How does your division affect your witness to them?

I have backed away from so much that I am seeking only the basics of the gospel. If I run into division I will simply walk away or keep it in house and in the closet. I am a discussion type person anyway- I really hate arguments. This topic has really bugged me lately and I wanted to post it to get your thoughts.

I tend towards reformed theology. Good exsample might be truthforlife.org

QUESTION ASKED: Is religiousity killing US?

RESPONSE; Yes

posted this idea on another thread... but anything beyond the following shared tenants among us generally leads to strife and division-

I believe in God, the Father Almighty the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell. The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic church; the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting.

Beyond that is normally going to cause strife and division with little hope of coming to agreement because of the tremendous amount of pride that we humans exhibit.

Leeza, I know you mean well but I really don't care who leans where when it comes to theology. What I mostly care about is how many christians are willing to put all that stuff down and keep only to the essentials and stop all infighting over silliness?

Seeing the issues of the Pharisees is just as seeing the issues of church splits. Petty silly stuff and we lose our point of view which is friendship and love under the banner of Jesus. It isn't the once saved always saved stuff, it isn't who speaks in tongues, it isn't who can prophesy and it isn't who can go out and feed the hungry. It is putting the silliness of conflicts aside and being a witness to the world.
Funny how this becomes so hard for christians who were once blind and now we claim we see yet many times I think we are more blind than we were before we became Christians.

I also hear stuff on christian radio in which they present these utopian views of christian life and then marvel why some cannot live up to it. Is that what the Christian life is all about? Striving for the perfect and yet depressed because we can't attain it? We know we can't and yet get depressed and angered because we can't. Does that make sense?

I keep thinking about Steve Brown and three free sins. It keeps Christian faith in perspective. You know you are going to sin so tongue in check you are allowed some fee sins. Yet some will interpret this as the choice to willfully sin and that is such a religious mentality as well. Such a dying mentality.

Well, how much is this kind of silliness really killing us?

Killing us?

The church is dead and we don't know it.

hi, i am trying to stay calm about something that is running rampant in this forum and others...Jesus is the Head of the church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it...do nothing pharisees who have not been anywhere and have not yet wept a lake of tears for the lost with no caluses on their knees from prayer..have never been wounded in battle against the principalities and powers of the air telling me the church is dead. there are five or six wonderful churches in my city of baton rouge who are preaching the gospel and turning our city,our state and our world to Christ.the church i have been with for years has started over 20000 churches around the world in the last 10 years at the cost of millions...we have a youth group in the schools called 220 that numbers over 7000students attending and no one has heard of us because we are not on 60 minutes for sinful or evil activity.jimp

My daughter from Austin came into town last week. She wanted to go to a church she attended before she moved. It was the Village church in Flower Mound (Texas). I was a bit reluctant to go, given the distance and the youthful zeal of assorted instruments that is a bit beyond my generation. I felt it necessary to acoompany her and so my wife and I attended. I went in bothered about all the wasted time that I could have communed with God apart from the drive. Bothered by those who would give God no notice except for a few hours on this morning. Bothered by emotionalism that people mistake for the love of the Spirit. Bothered by the Bride being treated only as sheep but not as priests. Bothered by a great many of my concerns that I would come to find were without foundation.

What I experienced in the worship was not through instruments, but Words from our God that were flashed upon the screen. God old fashioned verses of truth that formed the lyrics of the songs. Verses quoted by Book and verse. Words that cut deeper than any sword. Words that could penetrate the the soul of the believer. I could barely sing for the beauty of the Spirit that filled the room. The sight of saints praising our God is such an emotional sight. It is supposed to be this way. I can understand a little more of what eternity is like with such a picture. The sermon was dead on regarding Grace and the Law and possibly one of the best and clearest presentations I have heard.

I went in a little reluctant and came out overcome by His presence. I have been distanced from dead religion for a few years and in my solitude found a deeper relationship that can only come by the one on one intimacy possible with the Lord. I have somewhat limited fellowship these days but desire it in greater abundance. It is refreshing to see how God works among so diverse a people. Deadn you are right when you say there is so much dead stuff out there. Our God is a God of the living. Praise His name forever.

Lylewise

Great words there. Remember also that the point of my post is to put off the things that divide in religiousity. Meaning, why do we fight over the stupid stuff? Prayer, giving of ourselves, meditating the scripture, taking time to hear God is where we should put our focus, right? So why do we get so sidetracked and hijacked when it comes to other issues? It only causes fruitless debates.

Endtimes gets to be such a big discussion with some people. I don't concern myself with it anymore- it really just gets in my way of what I should be concerned with in the end. Sometimes I think of the scripture about thinking upon those things that are true and just and putting away the meaningless things that would cause division. Have you ever fought yourself against arguing with someone over something ridiculuous when it comes to God? There is a right way and a wrong way to argue or discuss. There is a right way and a wrong way to live your life as a witness and to engage in frivilous things is just thought, frivilous.

I say these things because I think I and many other have wasted our precious years with stupid stuff in regards to God and missing the entire purpose of why we are Christians. We are Christians because we believe God exists. We believe Jesus was sent to redeem our sinful souls from hell and to follow Him out of darkness into the Light. Yet once we have this new found life what do we do? Starting arguing over petty stuff. I think it is evidence of the patience of God in reflection. When we ask, How long O God will you go without dealing with Your church? In the meantime I am dealing with myself, praying for revival and carrying on with my personal life to make the most off it while not wasting precious time on the side arguments found in many churches that produce nothing but nonsense dogma

I know I am rambling just a bit but I am heartfelt with this and wish we all could just be honest with each other and just free in heart. Free to share joyous faith with each other, not to be corny but truthful and not to be argumentitive but engage is great meaningful discussion about what God is doing in your life and how to grow from that. It seems to simple yet we do mess it up, don't we?

The bereans (Act 17:11) were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily [to find out] whether these things were so.

It is commendable to examine our beliefs in light of scripture. It is really a good thing to test teachings in light of scriptures.

If we, together, are seeking God, and seeking to understand more clearly what He has revealed in His word through the ministry of the holy Spirit, I think there can be a pure and peaceable discussion. We can share our concerns.

I pray, please cease from accusing one another.

"The church is dead"

I am only repeating what I heard from heaven....

quote: Jesus is the Head of the church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Yet you find Jesus the head of the church saying to a church in Revelation...

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Alive but DEAD...

hi, since we are the church and we are dead then what is the use of anymore christian activity. should we eat, drink and be merry;and die. your insistance on death is not gospel(good news)for it is defeatest and says that we serve a God who is not able.my guess krispy is the Holy Spirit.jimp

If the chuch is dead, as some are saying than does God really exist? If the church is dead then there is no church, only appearance of something that parades itself as the church.

Is religion what is killing us? How many times have you ever read or heard of someone pointing a negative finger towards relgion and religious people? It usually if followed by no love, no forgiveness, always wanting to point the finger.

I am OVER it! Every notice how expected it is that a religious forum will be negative? Why is that? I know by I will leave it on the floor.

I think of a guy at work who goes to the Church of Christ. He is a massive complaining but when it comes to bible he wants to analyze every single word yet in doing so he has totally killed himself inside. His attitude is very negative. If you spend time around him in conversation you will not be built up inside at all. He has used the Word to kill himself and doesn't even know it. Is it A reason why religion is killing us? Could be a part of it.

QUOTE:
"Personally, I have stepped away from pre- post- trib stuff."

John, after you simmer down a bit, I would urge you to go study prophecy apart from any writings by any contemporary writer. Limit your reading to the WORD only.

Your post highlights the confusion that results when a body allows others' interpretation to supercede the teaching of the WORD.

John, there will always be disagreements among Christians. Some of it is caused by ignorance, some by rebellion, some by sin, some by blindness. We cannot allow it to effect our willingness to learn and listen to others. Even if we disagree with another person, it can trigger a thought process that will give you insight into a truth that heretofore was elusive.

God bless. And I suggest you go study Revelation, asking God to illuminate it for you. There is a ton of insights there that are sure to edify.

Ginnyrose

I hear what you are saying. In reference to you comments, I am not saying I am not going to do my studying. What I am saying is what profit is it to get in an argument over pre-trib, post-trib and so forth. It is nonsense. Personally I haven't made up my mind what the bible says about it. It doesn't concern me a great deal. I think it is good to engage in discussions over these issues and see how the interpretation is but to argue and divide over it it nonsense. This is where my argument is.

Is pre-trib, post-trib, whatever trib that important that it divides some Christians? If it is then we have serious issues. This is only a small snippet of the whole picture though.

Is pre-trib, post-trib, whatever trib that important that it divides some Christians? If it is then we have serious issues. This is only a small snippet of the whole picture though.

All these denominations and arguments that divide Christians are sure the work of Satan. Jesus in John 17 prays that those who believe in him will be united in one spirit like how the father Son and Holy Spirit are united as one. But how can we see we are all united if we keep dividing ourselves with these denominations and theologies that are called by Human names? Following these theologies called by human name is what caused division among Corinthians when they argued I am of Paul, I am of Apollos etc.

John 17 is prayer of Jesus who was righteous and God will surely answer the prayer of a Righteous man. Even now there are true Christians who are united in one spirit without coming under any denomination name. Let those who seek such true Church seek them. They may not start 20000 churches nor have 1 million followers but they have true disciples of Jesus. Jesus himself was able to gather only 11 disciples all his life, but dint these 11 turn the world upside down? So it is not the number that is important but the quality. Let those who seek a true Church of God understand these truths and seek that hey may see one.

sree

Good words!

Let's not get caught up in the pre-trib, post-trib , whatever trib thing. I only brought that up because it tends to be an area that divides people to the point of real division. Other areas of major division is tongues, prophesy, music, dress. They all have their place but for Christians to divide over it and allow to affect your discussions with other Christians and your whole being is unjust.

It seems some of favor certain of these things and want others to engage in them as well. The intentions are well meaning but in the end does it bring forth life or division? If division then RUN. If Life then INDULGE. This is different for everyone and that is what is so great about humanity. We are have different callings on our lives do that which we believe God is calling us to. While following that leading becareful that we don't jump into religious arguments that lead to nothing unless it deals with the essentials of the faith.