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The Church In The Home ~ Rolfe Barnard

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

It is a matter of history that for the first two hundred years after Christ the church never had special buildings of their own, and when at last they did the art of exhortation degenerated into the issuing of commands. Many groups which began in homes and have now become well-known organizations have lost out in spiritual effectiveness since they moved into special buildings for their gatherings. This has not happened suddenly. A special building is not a sin but merely a sincere effort to glorify God, which may ultimately involve more drawbacks than advantages.

A study of the Acts of the Apostles and the epistles of the New Testament, especially the epistles of Paul, confronts us with the church in the home. Four times “the church in the home” is specifically mentioned. For instance, the apostles wrote letters to churches and to individuals and sent greetings to or from the church in So-and-So’s house. In Romans 16:5 we read, “Likewise greet the church that is in their house” (the house of Aquila and Priscilla). In I Cor. 16:19 we read, “The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.” And from scriptures like this we gather the idea that the church in the home of Priscilla and Aquila was a firmly established church of that time. Again, in Col. 4:15 we read: “Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.” And then in Philemon verse 2 we hear Paul addressing himself to Philemon and the church in his house. Not one single instance can be found in the New Testament where the early Christians ever built what we call a house of worship. Sometimes they will meet down by the riverside where Paul will preach and God will open Lydia’s heart that she will attend upon the Word. In Jerusalem for a while the temple was used as a place of public testimony, but also in addition to the public testimony in the temple every house of every believer was a place of meeting. We need to carefully note Acts 2:46 and then read with great care Acts 5:42. For a while, you understand, before the Jews really came to understand the issue, Jewish believers were welcome in the temple and were asked to speak.

When the temple was denied the preachers, then only the house remained. Then Paul and others journeyed into Gentile domain, and being Jewish believers, were permitted for a while to preach in synagogues. There the God-fearing people and the proselytes whose hearts God had been opening and preparing, He saved, and out of them little groups called New Testament churches gathered. But later, as the issue was more clearly defined and the Jewish people understood its implications, the synagogues were closed to the preachers of the gospel, and then only the house or “the church in the home” remained. Over twenty times in the Acts of the Apostles and in the epistles we read of believers carrying out their united worship in the home of a believer.

The word “church” is, of course, of Latin origin. The Greek word translated “church” in our Authorized Version is “ekklesia” and it means “the called out ones.” EK equals out from; KALEO means to call. This word is also translated “assembly.” The word “church” or “assembly” is found 115 times in the New Testament. It is used once for a town council (Acts 19:39), and twice for a mob or unlawful council (Acts 19:32-41). The word “church” or “assembly” is used twice for Israel in the old covenant (Acts 7:38). But the word “church” is used 110 times for the body of Christ or believers.

The church is not: (1) A building. (2) A denomination. (3) An organization, nor (4) Many bodies organized, such as synods, conventions, associations, denominations, Church of England, etc. The church is: (1) A body of believers. Read carefully Eph. 4:4 and I Pet. 2:5. (2) A fellowship—one fellowship. (3) A living (not organization but) organism. The church as one body is clearly shown in such passages as I Cor. 12, Romans 12, Col. 1:18 and Eph. 1:22-23. The church is a body of called out ones. Read chapter two of Ephesians, especially verses 19 and 22. The church is a “building,” yes, but it is a building that is being built by the Holy Spirit, not with brick and mortar and hammer and nails—and it is a building indwelt by God the Holy Spirit. It has Christ as the Chief Cornerstone and the Foundation of the church, as to order, structure and doctrine, as outlined here in this passage. Well-nigh buried under the elaborate structures which man has built upon it is the church (so-called) of today—but God’s purpose concerning His true church has not changed. Let’s review just a moment the assembly of called out ones. It is the building of God. It is the household of God. It is the body of Christ. It is the pillar and ground of truth. It is a holy temple. It is the habitation of God. It is a heavenly colony sojourning here on earth, bearing witness in the power of the Holy Spirit to the risen, ascended, glorified Lord. That is the church.

It is important to get fixed in our minds that the early church was taught to regard itself not merely as a collection of saved individuals but as active members of the body of Christ. Not only did all believers form the one body universal, but each group functioned as the body locally. In each of the three cases where these are mentioned (Rom. 12; I Cor. 12; Eph. 4) is no suggestion of only one man ministering to the whole group but each is shown as having the privilege of possessing some spiritual gift and the responsibility to minister this gift to the rest of the saints so that every believer is looked on as a minister to the rest. Modern research in education has shown that we learn little by merely listening, but when we try to impart what we know to others we really begin to master our subject. This shows us the wisdom of God in planting the church, not as a vast congregation of listeners, but as a small body sharing with each other what they learn from the Holy Spirit.

The picture we have of the early church, therefore is something very simple but very vital. Whenever two or three would gather together in the name of the Lord, there they would expect to find their once crucified, now risen Lord present in the midst of them. They would also expect the Holy Spirit to work in each of them and share with each other what was thus revealed. In Col. 3 we read, “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly…teaching and admonishing one another”—and this was addressed to a whole congregation, not simply to one man we call the pastor. As the Holy Spirit worked in the midst, some or all of the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in I Cor. 12 would be manifested for He divided severally to every man as He chose. Each would himself be edified by His gift, and those who heard would likewise be blessed. As each small group divided, and so grew into a number of groups, these continued in fellowship with each other, and all of the small gathering in one city would together form the church of God in Ephesus or wherever it might be. Yet each group would have no say in the way another was carried on. The Lord was the Head of each and worked in each as He saw fit, but they would be free to exhort and admonish each other, though not to command. We find that this true church did not usually get on well with organized religion, but if there was a division it always came about by the organized religious group casting out the true believers. Until this happened, we find the position pictured in Acts 2:46, “Continuing daily…in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house.”

~Rolfe Barnard

S
savannah Mar 20, 2012

Christianity vs. Churchianity
by A. A. Phelps
Written in 1883


We are living in an age of shames and counterfeits. Satan seems to have abandoned the hope of crushing out the Christian Church by a process of undisguised hostility, and now seeks to destroy her efficiency by stealthily draining off her vitality, and robbing her of every supernatural element. He "transforms himself into an angel of light", and often assumes to be the special friend and guardian of the Church.

Craftily he infuses his deadly virus and inculcates his plausible philosophy, until the moral perception is obscured, the conscience is distorted, and policy runs nearly the whole ecclesiastical machinery. Thus a popularized religion, which costs nothing and is worth nothing, is readily accepted, while the old religion of the cross is utterly discarded. The consequence is, that there is religion enough, and Churchianity enough, but a great famine for real Christianity. We meet with thousands all over the land who, if catechized in regard to their spiritual condition, reply with much self- assurance that they are members of such a Church. They assume that the Church is an ark of safety; and once ensconced within her enclosures, all further anxiety ends. Let us try to unmask this dreadful delusion of the devil.

There is a difference, we may premise, between the real and the nominal Church of Christ. The former is composed of all true Christians. Its boundaries are therefore invisible, as no man can tell exactly where to draw the lines. The latter is composed of those who assume the Christian name and practice the ordinances of God's house. It is commonly called the visible Church, because its boundary lines are known. The epithet may apply to a single local society of a given denomination, or to the aggregate of local societies of all denominations. We use the term, in this paper, to designate the outward or visible Church.

1. Christ and the Church are not identical.

There may be ten thousand Churches, but there is only one Christ. Nor can all those Churches supply the place of our one, blessed all-sufficient Savior. A man may be saved without the Church, but he cannot be saved without Christ. A man may be in the Church and not be saved; but he cannot be in Christ without salvation. Sinners sometimes become members of the Church; but only saints are members of Christ. A person may live in the Church for years, with the old heart of carnality and selfishness; but "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature".

The requirements of the Church are often wrong and ruinous; but the claims of Christ are always reasonable and right. The Church may become a sink of pollution; but Christ is ever the perfection of purity. The Church may be rent with divisions; but Jesus Christ is not divided. The Church may become terribly entangled in mysticism and error; but Christ is always the embodiment of light and truth. The Church may change her name and her nature; but Christ is "the same yesterday, today, and forever". The Church may be a crutch to walk with, but she is a poor Christ to trust in for salvation and eternal life.

2. Christian worship and Church worship are not identical.

Vast multitudes cling to some Church establishment as a drowning man would cling to a life-boat. They bow obsequiously to her priestly and official mandates, and imagine that the blind servility which they tender to the Church will be accounted acceptable service offered to Christ. The simplicity of the Gospel is lost in the imposing forms and glittering accompaniments of modern churchism. Splendid church edifices attract the eye. Splendid music charms the ear. Splendid prayers are addressed to the CONGREGATION. Splendid sermons please the fancy, and leave deluded sinners to slumber on. Church rivalry has achieved a glorious success, if success thundering organs, ostentatious dressing, theatrical singing, pointless praying, rhetorical preaching, careless hearing, and unscriptural practicing!

Much of the current worship is done by proxy. Lazy religionists surrender their sacred rights to others. They take it for granted that the preacher is on the right track, and readily swallow whatever may be doled out from the pulpit, without using their own brains in searching for the hidden treasures of truth. Thus religious ideas are transmitted from generation to generation, until tradition exerts a more powerful influence than the Bible in molding the sentiments of men.

There comes to be a fashionable faith, as well as a fashionable dress. To embrace a certain stereotyped circle of doctrinal views entitles a man to the claim of "orthodoxy"; but let him not venture one step out of the beaten track, if he would not be denounced as a deluded heretic! But few have the moral courage to question the decisions of the Church, much less to discard what she has labeled as "orthodox".

The verdict of a few leading denominations has thus grown up into a threatening tyranny; and the multitude cannot think of stemming the mighty tide. So they bow down in their narrow enslavement and worship this curiously- fashioned but pious-looking idol - "the Church!" Since all idolatry is an abomination to God, we have no more right to worship a church than we have to worship a golden calf! We rob the Lord of His rightful honor, and ourselves of the highest bliss of Christianity, by looking to the Church too much, and "looking unto Jesus" too little.

What can be done to deal a staggering blow to this cruel church/worship of the day, and at the same time give us more exalted and ravishing views of Jesus Christ? There is a grand failure to carry out the ultimate design, when the appliances of the Gospel result only in the production of Churchianity. Our perception, our prayers, our faith and our adoration must overleap the narrow precincts of the outward Church, and rise up to the eternal throne! "Worship God!"

3. Christian fellowship and Church fellowship are not identical.

The followers of Christ are called upon to "love one another with a pure heart fervently". Indeed, this is one of the Scriptural tests of discipleship. "We know that we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren". All Christians constitute one family, and love is the golden tie designed to bind their hearts together around the common cross. But love is a tender plant that needs to be reared with a hand. Hence the many exhortations of Scripture to "consider one another" - to "be kindly affectioned one to another" - to "esteem others better than ourselves" - to "bear one another's burdens" - to exercise a forgiving spirit - to "let brotherly love continue" - to "endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace". All such injunctions point out the danger of alienated feelings and poisoned affections, and show the importance of making a special effort to promote Christian unity and love. How disastrous are the results of not regarding these Gospel precepts!

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

Savannah,

Just yesterday I bumped a really old thread where you had posted this same writing!

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41590&forum=35&1

In Christ -Jim

J
jimp Mar 20, 2012

hi, God spoke to a group of us that were meeting at the church i have been with for over 40 years about 38 years ago to meet one night a week in each others homes every week to grow into a family together, coinanea(spelling)... each week we would meet in someone elses home as not to burden any one family. the host for each week was to prepare a message, supply coffee or tea and a snack,and a baby sitter... that is where, after meeting him, len ravenhill would minister to us each week. he once was asked to be billy grahams guest to fraces shaffers convention in the swiss alps that he said he had a previous engagement ...it was at my house... that week paul and his wife and child came unexpectedly home from argentina and came with len...if he would have gone he would have missed them...many miracles happened in those meetings. today that church has thousands of home churches around our city of baton rouge and we are the main source of evangelization in our city. we have hundreds of youth home and school fellowships that 7000 young people attend. one day our pastor gave an invitation in our 830 service and 70 people came forward to answer the call of Christ 20 were part of one home church that went out in their area and led the others to Jesus. maybe this is why i get upset when people write that the church is dead. we support and meet with 12 other churches in our area that are preaching the gospel and over the last 10 years have started 20000 home churches in the uttermost parts of the world...some of those have grown to over 1000 members.jimp we probably have more folks in prison from preaching than some churches have reached in the last 10 years.

E
Elibeth Mar 20, 2012

Jimdied2sin,

I appreciate this artical.

I am thinking,...Isn't it so timely to see the need to look back, and rethink,..
Some of what we have gathered up along the way ?And look at the oridginal way,.. ?

Doesn't it seem like things have changed and changed.....could we maybe
get off- course ?

Even right after the first church got started,..Paul wrote letters,and went around to these meetings,trying to encourage them in the Lord and to again
Line them up with God' WAY,..His Truth of the gospel.

Can I just really speak plain ?...
There are some most BEAUTIFUL buildings,...where the name church
has been,changed / distorted to mean the buildings..when in the original,..as this man in this article is saying,...that the church
is the true people of God.

These beautiful Buildings,..as we know are ALL going to burn up one day,..
That there will not be one stone upon another.
...Has the emphasis got too great ...in the sight of God,...
on the building ? ..Could it be that the growth got too big, that it was needed ? ..A place of shelter ?..a gathering place ?..but why did the meaning of the word "Church" change,..to mean ,the building ?

Do we need to go back to BETHEL ?...( to the house of God ?)
Where God spoke to us at the first ?..To a place of new beginings ?Have we took a wrong turn somewhere ?

This is thought provoking for me .
God bless,
elizabeth

N
NeedHelp Mar 20, 2012

every true christian is the building of God- Jesus said I build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. We are the building the true house of God. The church is not to forsake meeting together and where we meet is not as important as how we meet and why we meet and who we meet with. If you take a wrong turn then turn back and fix your eyes upon Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

My wife and I were VERY involved in house churches for a number of years. I wrote extensively about it on this forum.

If anyone is interested I would be glad to share why we do not house church anymore. House churching can be a wonderful expression of the church when done properly, however I made some general observations about the landscape of house churching that led us to leave it and join a more "traditional" church by God's leading.

Krispy

J
jochbaptist Mar 20, 2012

"Quote"
If anyone is interested I would be glad to share why we do not house church anymore.
"end quote"

I have considered to go the "House Church" way, but never felt released to do that. So I would appreciate to hear what you have to share.

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

So I dont start a fire-storm, let me say up front that this is MY experience and MY observations, and acknowledge that others may not have similar experiences. Also, the more "traditional" church that the Lord led us to started out as 5 families meeting in a home.

Now, having said that, one of the books that I used to recommend on here all the time was a book called "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. It is one of the most popular books in the house church movement. While Viola makes a lot of good points in this book, anyone I have ever met who has read this book comes away admitting that Viola has a chip on his shoulder and an axe to grind.

Viola is considered to be one of the house church gurus. He has a tremendous amount of influence.

And in my experience this same attitude is prevelant in the house church movement at large. I say that having been to several house church conferences in different areas of the country, so I am not just speaking about my little corner of the world.

Many house churches reject the Biblical authority of elders/pastors, and I suppose that is my greatest issue with them. They also tend to disparage the idea of a man who has gone to seminary or Bible school. Now, I myself have a LOT of problems with seminaries and Bible schools mainly because they dont teach the Bible anymore. And I certainly agree that a man does not need a degree to be used of God as a pastor/elder/teacher.

But there is something to be said about a man who has been educated and trained soundly in the Word of God, and gifted as a teacher by the Holy Spirit... even tho education is mocked by some here on this forum.

Another thing that has bothered me about house churches is just about anyone is allowed to teach. Without the proper Biblical leadership authority in place this is very wreckless and dangerous from a spiritual standpoint.

A spirit of rebellion and pride is also very prevalent in the house church movement. There is an "us against them" attitude, and along with that there can be a haughtiness that goes hand in hand with it. The very same haughtiness that house churchers accuse the "traditional" churches of having. This can happen in ANY church... but I have experienced it the most in house churches. I was that way too.

House church folks tend to be incredibly independent minded and individualistic... which as a red blooded American I can appreciate, but Paul taught that just the opposite should be true for the Body of Christ. We need each other, and we are to be dependent upon one another.

Now... an organic house church that adheres to Biblical church structure, leadership and authority can be incredible! But in my experience I have found that house churches like that make up maybe 5% of house churches.

So I am NOT against house churches, but I see a lot of spiritual danger in that movement.

Eveyrone likes to point out how the persecuted church meets in homes, etc... and thats true. But they are not thriving because they meet in homes or caves. They are thriving because they are being persecuted. People forget that. Here... meeting in a home is a luxery.

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

A couple of brief ideas Krispy. Most house churches are born out of a desire to return to a Biblical model of Plural Pastors, a more authentic Body life, and are more anti-Religious than rebellious. They see the Pulpit, The building, and the Tithe as a system that controls and kills body-life, rather than enhances it.

You said; " but I see a lot of spiritual danger in that movement." I would contend that most in the House Church would express the opposite....that the danger of following dead religion, sit down stand up, listen to a lecture, shake hands and tell everyone you love them, go home, and eat your ham, and return next Sunday all dressed up and clean and shiny....and call that serving God, and walking in Love with Christ....IS dangerous, and if hypocritical is too strong a word, then disingenuous.

But, your right, mostly, they are struggling. Why? There is an old saying ; "You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take country out of the boy. It is the same with religion. Often, one expects and feels secure, less exposed, in a setting where men can institute order.....like a church "service"...[ no service to God, especially ]...but it creates an orderly system....and is ran by a Priest/class type fellow..[ usually fellow..].

This feels very safe, and really you do not have to expose, or give anything of yourself...except the tithe that makes everyone feel better, and greases the gears to maintain the overhead and salaries.

So, the house church adapts the same model...the big church in the little house....and the pews become the couch......and the pulpit belongs to the leader. Without Godly Shepherds the church would perish, if possible. Let us not, however, associate Shepherds with directors, or leadership. They are instituted to assure that the Holy Spirit, who is the LEADER and LORD, is not quenched! and God is allowed to use ALL the body, fitly joined together, to edify itself in Love.

One has a Psalm, One has a teaching, One has a Testimony, One has a Prophecy!...and each one is allowed to minister to another as He leads, and anoints. We are a NATION of PRIESTS!...remember?

Just because saints have seen this truth, and veered out into the unknown, and labor because of uncharted waters and the rocks and eddies.....does not make it wrong. There is no doubt that THIS IS the New Testament model, and that the OLD....pulpit/pew/Priest/Lay Minister Class/ Drone Class model is being diminished as we speak; and of course the owners of that religious model, as the Pharisees of old, would rather murder than relinquish their hold on it.

The question must be for any Biblical fellowship; Is Jesus Lord in the community of that fellowship, and is He Lord of the meetings? and IS the least of the brethren used, and honored, as much as any other, including the elders?....and does your fellowship have a Christ centered World view?...all the way down to the kitchen table and the market-place.

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

It's interesting, brother Tom, that in what I wrote I allowed for the fact there are in fact house churches that are doing it right and that it is "incredible" (the word I used) when it's done right.

You responded by painting non-house churches with a broad brush and over generalizations. That is a prevailing pass-time in many house churches.

Not every "traditional" church operates like what you described. For instance, our church does not teach tithing. Many churches have very sincere love for one another and are very relational. Many churches pool their resources and do tremendous community outreach and missional work.

What I am saying is this: regardless of what type of church your PREFER (and when you boil it down, we are talking about preferences here), it needs to be done right and orderly and Biblically.

Krispy

N
NeedHelp Mar 20, 2012

A couple of brief ideas Krispy. Most house churches are born out of a desire to return to a Biblical model of Plural Pastors, a more authentic Body life, and are more anti-Religious than rebellious. They see the Pulpit, The building, and the Tithe as a system that controls and kills body-life, rather than enhances it.

You said; " but I see a lot of spiritual danger in that movement." I would contend that most in the House Church would express the opposite....that the danger of following dead religion, sit down stand up, listen to a lecture, shake hands and tell everyone you love them, go home, and eat your ham, and return next Sunday all dressed up and clean and shiny....and call that serving God, and walking in Love with Christ....IS dangerous, and if hypocritical is too strong a word, then disingenuous.
____________________________________________________________


Hey, I’m not against “home churches” but thought I would reply to the above:

You mean those in the home church don’t shake hands and don’t tell people they love them and don’t eat in their home and don’t take a bath and don’t put on clean clothes and don’t get dressed up. What do they do in a home meeting together that shows they are not hypocritical and that shows they are serving God better than others who meet in another building also. Hmm “plural pastors” how many pastors do they need in the living room or kitchen-could it be too many want to be the pastors. Do they get to keep all their money or maybe give a little every now and then to at least help out and maybe someone (one of the pastors) has found a missionary work that is legit so they can give some support but no tithing.
need help understanding!

S
Sree Mar 20, 2012

Brother Krispy, I understand that you have NOT got this complaints against all the Home Churches but I wanted to share how we are different in these aspects.


The Church I go to used to meet at home and recently we were gifted by grace of God a room in a mega Church to meet. The Mega Church thought we are bunch of Indians meeting but was shocked to see Americans meeting with us as well. Then they realized we have our meetings in English and not in our local language. When we were asked about it, we replied, if we meet in US with our local language then we will become an Indian Club and never a Church. A local Church should be free for any local person to attend and not just a particular community settled in that area to attend. We still have fellowship lunch every week and we do not pass offering box, we encourage giving in secret instead of public.

One reason we were so reluctant to buy a building was if we buy a building that will bring a burden for financial needs which will force us to expect money from our attendees. Giving should always be voluntary and not forced by passing an offering bucket.


Many house churches reject the Biblical authority of elders/pastors, and I suppose that is my greatest issue with them

We believe in having 2 elders because Jesus always sent his disciples in twos. They are not selected based on their education but based on their spiritual gift and how their family is run. Is there a unity between him and his wife, are his Children obeying him and fearing God? A man who cannot run his family well cannot run a Church. Elders are NOT elected (God never recognized democracy, he always appointed kings), but appointed by Zac Poonen who is our overseer (like how Paul was to the Churches he wrote). Elders have complete authority and we are free to give them suggestions in private.


But there is something to be said about a man who has been educated and trained soundly in the Word of God, and gifted as a teacher by the Holy Spirit.

Training and gifts are not always related. The proof is most of the messages carried by Sermon Index are spoken by a man who has never attended Bible School as a student.


A spirit of rebellion and pride is also very prevalent in the house church movement.

I am not aware of such things. I came to know Christ in a mega Church in US. But after a year I realized their teachings and especially their practices (mostly in handling money) are not Biblical. I believe such mega Churches have a place in God's Kingdom to evangelize people but if a person has to grow in Christ he has to be part of a like minded fellowship.


Another thing that has bothered me about house churches is just about anyone is allowed to teach.

Our elders do not let anyone to speak. But any committed member can share a verse or what he learned from a message that he just heard but cannot deliver a sermon unless he is called to speak. Again a persons personal walk with Jesus is used as a criteria.


House church folks tend to be incredibly independent minded and individualistic

This is not at all true with our Church. We believe in fellowship and we depend on the words of encouragement from one another for our daily walk with Christ.


There is one risk that a house Church or a small fellowship of believers who meet regularly and spend lot of time in fellowship has, this is they are exposed more to one another's life and hence they also see the difference, these difference might lead to judgment and bitter thoughts. To avoid those we need to learn to accept the differences and believe that none of us are perfect in all areas. In one area that we struggle another might be strong and vice versa. But not many have this maturity.

S
savannah Mar 20, 2012

"They also tend to disparage the idea of a man who has gone to seminary or Bible school. Now, I myself have a LOT of problems with seminaries and Bible schools mainly because they dont teach the Bible anymore. And I certainly agree that a man does not need a degree to be used of God as a pastor/elder/teacher."

"But there is something to be said about a man who has been educated and trained soundly in the Word of God, and gifted as a teacher by the Holy Spirit... even tho education is mocked by some here on this forum."

In light of the above,I'd like to recommend the following:

http://www.chapellibrary.org/ekklesia-seminary/

Thanks for reading this.

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

Sree... Your experience sounds wonderful and praise worthy. Thank the Lord! You have found a good church.

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

Savannah... thanx for the link. I just had a minute to look at it, but it was enough to spark my interest. I will take a longer look at it when I have more time.

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

"Hmm “plural pastors” how many pastors do they need in the living room or kitchen-could it be too many want to be the pastors. Do they get to keep all their money or maybe give a little every now and then to at least help out and maybe someone (one of the pastors) has found a missionary work that is legit so they can give some support but no tithing.
need help understanding!"...Needhelp.

The first church there ever was in Jerusalem was a house church...".Acts 2:46
"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,"...and

" And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ!"

There were perhaps 25,000 or more in this early first model. They also met at Solomons portico, a broad square type brick park...I imagine when the weather was good.

Paul at Ephesus met the elders at Miletus, and most scholars think there were as many as 200....to shepherd a massive Church of 50,000+. These were all house churches.. Homechurches can be very large. I visited one in Cleveland'; " People of Destiny "...and they met every week in a rented Gym at a high school...for a couple of hundred dollars a MONTH..WITH PERHAPS 800 PEOPLE....and then everyone went to a home meeting during the week...with different venues now and then...very successful and large.


"Do they get to keep all their money or maybe give a little every now and then to at least help out and maybe someone (one of the pastors) has found a missionary work that is legit so they can give some support but no tithing.
need help understanding!"..Needhelp

You are under no forced giving...but you give as you are led....and out of love for Jesus and the gospel, of course they gave money...to send out, and to receive.and for various mercy ministries the church endeavoured....and probably used with much more merit than the current systems today.

D
dkr777 Mar 20, 2012

jimp,

my wife and I had a very bad home church experience. the small home church we attended was very cult like and controlling and a spring off the "shepherding movement". We couldn't do anything unless our spiritual covering heard from God for us on things like where to live, what type of car to drive and where to work. and if we didn't tithe we were scolded too...

BUT, what jimp describes is something I long for. a group of saints that we could be intimate, with, pray for each other, study the word, break bread, share the gospel/ ministry together.. where I live it seems like there are only large churches with their own agenda and home churches who are critical of every church who is not a home church and men with ego's who want to be the pastor and "spiritual leader" of the home church they attend.

I long for a true example of ACTS. I have been wanting to start a prayer meeting in my home on Friday evenings like Leonard Ravenhill did and watch God move.

--dkr777

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

my wife and I had a very bad home church experience. the small home church we attended was very cult like and controlling and a spring off the "shepherding movement". We couldn't do anything unless our spiritual covering heard from God for us on things like where to live, what type of car to drive and where to work. and if we didn't tithe we were scolded too...

Whenever you encounter a church like that the Holy Spirit will always say the same thing if you listen... it goes something like this:

"Run Forrest... Run!!"

Thats called an abusive church.

BUT, what jimp describes is something I long for. a group of saints that we could be intimate, with, pray for each other, study the word, break bread, share the gospel/ ministry together.. where I live it seems like there are only large churches with their own agenda and home churches who are critical of every church who is not a home church and men with ego's who want to be the pastor and "spiritual leader" of the home church they attend.

This can be encountered in a house church or in a fellowship that meets in a building. Our church meets in a church building that we purchased 2 yrs ago after having started in a home 5 yrs previous, and rented a SDA sancutary on Sundays afte it got too big for a home.

We average probably between 150-200 on Sundays. We have home groups. I have to tell you, these people are our family... we LOVE them. I dont know how we lived without this fellowship. I pray you find that too! Doesnt matter if it is a house church or a "traditional" church.

This is not an issue of which style is better, or more Biblical, or whatever. God clearly uses and blesses both kinds of churches.

I long for a true example of ACTS. I have been wanting to start a prayer meeting in my home on Friday evenings like Leonard Ravenhill did and watch God move.

So what is stopping you? This is how most churches start, and how most revivals start. The Welsh revival started by one man praying... and then one person joined him... and then another...

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 20, 2012

Wow, lots of good responses if we can cut through the rabbit trails and red herrings and stick to the main issue. This issue is not really about some movement called house church, or some guy named frank viola... it is about the instructions of Christ and the apostles clearly recorded in the new tesamenent. It is not simply about where you meet but how you meet, though there are definately draw backs to having a building.

My friend Ian wrote on this subject:

"Why take 2-300 years to get around to building ‘a church’? Its bcos the Apostles had a reason NOT to do it. Not bcos they couldn’t afford it or that persecution stopped it.

There’s a fundamental reason why they are problematic: The true church is a set of relationships in Christ. Building a church building changes that, and a certain group of people “own” “the church” : see the subtle shift? “The church” is now centered around who owns, or controls, the building, so the building itself, and the committee which owns it, becomes “the church”.

(ironically, similar to Marxist theory: who owns the capital controls the people.)

“The committee” or registered society which is formed to legally manage the building then becomes subject to the civil authorities ….. ??? See the problem?"


Jim

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