There Was No Pre-Tribulation Rapture! When is Jesus Coming Back?

There Was No Pre-Tribulation Rapture! When is Jesus Coming Back?
by Skydiver626

He is very explicit in his describing of the time of events and I have never heard it quite this way before! The video is for 'after' the abomination of the desolation' has come forth and Christians find themselves still here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeFc_csTI1I&feature=g-all-u&context=G2642b0dFAAAAAAAACAA

give it a watch and see what you think... does it challenge your belief in a pre-trib rapture of the church?

And another question for those who believe in the pre-trib... after all the events that have been unfolding in the last three years, has these things shaken your belief in it?

God bless us all!!
Lisa

PS: For those who like to read, he has a book on amazon called "Changed" by Steven Straub. It's about being pre-trib believer and being changed forever.

give it a watch and see what you think... does it challenge your belief in a pre-trib rapture of the church?

No.

And another question for those who believe in the pre-trib... after all the events that have been unfolding in the last three years, has these things shaken your belief in it?

No.

Personally, I am not worried about it. My faith is in Christ Jesus and so, as David Wilkerson used to say, we can be "pan-trib" -- because it will all "pan out" in the end. If your faith is firm in Christ Jesus you cannot be shaken no matter how the end will come.

As I have said in the past, I am open to the possibility that there may not be a "rapture" before the period of God's wrath.

From the preponderance of the evidence, I still lean to a very distinct possibility that the Lord will gather the saints BEFORE God's wrath is poured out upon this entire world (or else, He will protect us from His own wrath since we are not appointed to it).

However, I wonder how many people are open to the possibility that there could be one.

With this, I think that it is important to know ALL possible scenarios if we feel intent on studying eschatology. Keith Green used to say that we should pray for pre-trib but prepare for post-trib. I think that this is wise. However, the only true preparation that makes any spiritual sense is to walk with God no matter what.

I just don't think that the Lord intended for believers to become distracted by trying to "figure out" just how the end will come. I knew a guy who passed away last year who spent his life trying to figure it all out. He went from pre-trib to post-trib and then back to pre-trib. Ultimately, it didn't really matter for him at all. He departed this world before any of it took place.

Chris wrote:
"However, the only true preparation that makes any spiritual sense is to walk with God no matter what."

I have come to this same conclusion in my study of Revelation.

My opinion is that it is westerners who hold to such a high hope of escaping severe tribulations. We live in relative security and prosperity. We can practice any religion or no religion, whatever you want with no coercion from the civil authorities. We do not want anyone to rock the boat, least of all upset it and surely God will prevent THAT from happening!

But. But what about those peoples who do suffer NOW? Those in Muslim dominated countries? Are we or they in any tribulation now? We may say 'yes' or 'no', depending on your definition of tribulation. Do they experience beheadings? (Yes.) Are they limited in their ability to buy or sell? Is a mark required to carry on business? Perhaps this is the defining point in what constitutes tribulation?

In any case, people have no control over the beast...what we do have control over is our response to it and any other evil we encounter. To this end let us be faithful, as Chris said. And it all begins in how well deal with sin and temptation in life NOW.

hi Lysa,
Thanks for the link,I am slow on the uptake but I will watch it a couple more times.
I dont believe in imminency in the sense that Jesus could come at any time in history so I dont believe in pre trib.
However I dont believe in the postrib rapture as in Matthew it says-
Matt 24.36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
It is clear from this scripture and from the "Lot Example" that when Jesus comes the people are marrying etc the world is carrying on as normal and earth is clearly not in turmoil.
If the last 3.5yrs of Daniels Wk God pouring out his wrath then Matt 24.38 can happen after Daniels 3.5 yrs as the world is not in turmoil everything is normal.
Yours Staff

Hi Ephah,
The two examples of Noah and Lot are given and clearly without doubt paint a picture of a world that is not in tribulation prior to Jesus Return.
"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.
There is nothing wrong with any of the activities mentioned.
What Jesus is clearly saying is the world will be going on as normal(not in tribulation)
If Jesus wanted to highlight turmoil he would have used different examples.
These Scripture are as clear an example as could be given and should not be twisted to fit a Christian theory.
Their hasnt been a time when war or murder has not existed after Cain and Abel,this will continue but that isnt what the great tribulation is about.
Their is no doubt that this is an evil generation when a guy gets shot in a club and the party continues as you say,
Yours Staff

The Lord (the Blessed Hope) has already come to me and my hope now, is to stand before Him face to face and hear, "Well, done ...".

Has He "appeared" to you?

The only thing that matters on planet earth is the here and now.

James 1:12
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Pilgrim

Titus 2:11-13
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Hi Ginnyrose,
I agree with your points on,a walk with God,christians are in tribulation in Muslim countries and perhaps it is westerners that have a high hope of avoiding revelation.
However we are not talking about tribulation but the Great Tribulation and on whether Jesus returns before or after it.It is what scripture says about this that is deciding factor not whether westerners desire to escape tribulation more than other christians.Whether westerners want to escape tribulation has no effect on whether it is pre or post.Their will always be tribulation which may include killings and inability to buy and sell but these are not the Great Tribulation.We dont need to have a definition on what tribulation is but we do need to define the difference between tribulation and the Great Tribulation.
Jesus doesnt return before or after tribulation but before or after the Great Tribulation.
Yours Staff

Hi Approved,

I really don't know what it is that you are trying to say here.

"Why is there this need to pour out any wrath?"

This is a question for God since the wrath that will come is from Him who sits on the Throne.

"Was not the blood of Christ sufficient?"

This almost sounds like a directional or ambiguous question. Sufficient...for what exactly? Of course it is immeasurably sufficient for what it was meant to suffice.

Still, I don't understand what it is that you are trying to get at.

"What good would the Everlasting gospel be to those in heaven seeing that the gospel is for the unrighteous, not for the righteous?"

Again, I don't understand what you mean by this. Of course the everlasting Gospel is good. It is literally the "good news" for those who are lost. Those who "see" earthly events transpire from Eternity have already had their eternal fates sealed. Their "good news" has been realized in the timelessness of Eternity.

"sigh...oh well.."

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking...or what it has to do with this topic. However, I would be pleased to address what it is that you are trying to address (if I can) if I better understand what you are saying.

Thanks, brother!

I did not want this to be a debate about pre-trib VS post-trib; everybody on here knows how everyone believes and that's not what the video is about.

I've read the responses and it doesn't seem that one person has watched the video and responded to my question:

give it a watch and see what you think... does it challenge your belief in a pre-trib rapture of the church?

The video uses scripture to back up a 45 day period that skydiver626 believes is when Christ can (and he believes will) return! That's what I wanted to see if that changed your pre-trib belief.

Please do not even respond to the supposed 45 day period without viewing the video so you at least know what we are talking about. If you don't want to view it, then that is cool too!

God bless,
Lisa

hi, i have studied all this for 48 years and find that we know as much as the pharisees knew about Jesus coming in Bethlehem as the Messiah. very little...jimp

Because there has been great tribulation in every century since the resurrection the surest and safest thing is to be found in Him. Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of your faith. He is the Blessed Hope that you are walking with, NOW!

And He is our Better Hope, too.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

One of the elders asks John if he knows who these people in the multitude are and from whence they have come (7:13). John defers the answer, saying, 'My lord, you know," so the elder proceeds to identify them. "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (7:14). The "great tribulation" is not necessarily a designated title for a particular seven year period which some expect to take place in the future. Christians in every age have suffered from the "great tribulation" of living "in the world," facing the hostility of Satan's "world-system" and its religious "front", and the constant tribulations of life. Jesus told His followers, "In the world you have tribulation" (John 16:33). Paul explained, "Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22). John had already indicated that he was a "fellow-partaker in the tribulation" (1:9).

Pilgrim

hi, fyi afew have been dropped 57 years ago and it has been a wonderful deterrent for the sane.i am so glad so many have this all figured out. in dan.2 it says in explaining to the king daniel said at the last (in the days of the ten toes...in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed;and the kingdom shall not be left to other people,but it shall brake into piecesand consume all of these kingdoms,and it shall stand forever.let us consider this verse which is at the center of the beginning of eschatology.jimp

There have been many great tribulations and in their respective generations who would be foolish enough to argue that my "great tribulation" was greater than yours?

If you have not studied the Dark Ages you may want to have a look. But, you don't have to go back that far. Just look around today. Two thirds of Christians in the world are in the midst of "great" tribulation, now. A Pakistani women in our fellowship had acid thrown on her face by her suitor because she would not abandon Christ. Her face melted. I don't think she can conceive of a "greater" tribulation.

God's Word is timeless and at the same time, relevant for every generation.

Pilgrim

Hi Lysa,
I want to try and answer the question you asked rather than a post pre discussion.I looked at the video again.
I noticed he used both 1260days as 3.5 years and 1290days as 3.5yrs whether this makes a difference to his 45days I dont know.
I dont think this would change Pre trib view as most pre tribbers I know believe in a rapture and a 2nd coming.This 45day to them if correct would be seen as the 2nd coming.
If the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week is quite and peaceful(like today,some wars,sin etc) rather than apocalyptic then the rapture could be in that 45 day period.
If the 2nd half of Daniels 70th wk is apocalyptic with the world in its worst time ever known then the Rapture can not be in that 45 day period as Jesus clearly points out.The rapture comes after a relatively peaceful time.
I didnt see in the video where he addressed the the rapture and the 2nd coming so I dont think it would change the pre trib view,
Yours Staff

I watched the video carefully and attentively. Personally, I lean very heavily towards a pre-tribulation rapture. Did the video challenge me in my thinking? No. It didn't give any information to challenge the pre-trib belief. The video was made in the hypothetical situation that the world has entered into the tribulation period; that the pre-trib rapture that many were expecting didn't happen and that those folks are now scared and don't know what to think.

Frankly, I found that a bit condescending. Why would he assume that, in the case of a post-trib scenario, everyone who once held to the pre-trib theory would suddenly become stupid and run around without a clue as to what's going on? That's actually more revealing about what HE thinks of those who currently believe in a pre-trib rapture. Those I know who are also pre-trib believers are nothing like that. In the case that the post-trib theory is true, pre-tribbers are still going to know what to expect and not worship the beast or take his mark.

So, no, it didn't challenge my views of a pre-trib rapture. Whatever the true eschatological facts are, no one can say with certainty because God has seen fit to keep this hidden as one of His mysteries. No one can say they've studied, prayed, fasted and heard a definite answer from God that the viewpoint they arrived at is THE correct one. What's important is to keep watching, hoping and expecting Jesus to come at any time. But, to also keep living our lives as if we have the whole of them to live out. We are to remain watchful but continue the work that He gave us to do and complete it for His glory only.

Now, regarding the 45 day window that the creator of the video is talking about, I have to say that I agree with him. I believe there is a window of time for Christians during that time in history to expect Jesus to return in. (Just like they waited, expectantly, in the upper room in the book of Acts.) It's just that, to pre-trib believers, that's known as the second coming of Christ, not the rapture. Once the tribulation period begins, it's very simple to narrow down the time of the second coming based on the timeline and events described in Revelation. It will be the blessed hope of those who endure the tribulation period.