Wakey wakey Gog

Pretty neat how it is all falling in place according to plan.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-thinks-an-israeli-attack-on-iran-by-the-summer-is-almost-certain-2012-4

"The implication of preparing to move Russian troops not only is to protect its own vital regional interests but possibly to assist Iran in the event of such an attack. Sources add that a Russian military buildup in the region could result in the Russian military potentially engaging with Israeli forces, US forces, or both.

Informed sources say that the Russians have warned of "unpredictable consequences" in the event that Iran is attacked, with some Russians saying that the Russian military will take part in the possible war because it would threaten its vital interests in the region. "

OJ

...Plan?...What plan and whose plan?...And just how did you or anyone else find out about such a plan?

Oh boy... here we go.

Listen, even tho many here have abandoned a pre-trib rapture (and I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm saying I dont know), doesnt mean the Bible doesnt tell us what will happen in the future in regards to Armeggedon, etc.

Let's not take the current dislike of the "rapture" to the point of foolishness.

I have noticed a number of scoffers on this forum whenever someone talks about end times, and surely we can not base our eschatology on news headlines... however, we can not discount what we see happening.

II Peter 3:3, 4, 10
"...there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up."

Those who scoff at this stuff fail to realize that you yourself may well be fulfilling prophecy!

All I am saying is be very careful.

Krispy

Savannah

God's plan.....it's in the Book....have you decided to wait for the movie?

OJ

This is where the 'powers that be' would like to deceive the Christians and Jews.

Armageddon, in the Revelation isn't until He returns - see Rev 16 and they begin to gather around the 7th Vial.. and Ezekiel 38-39 is cross-referenced to that war.
Compare Ezek 39:17 to Rev 19:17,18.
Keeping in mind that the antiChrist hasn't been revealed to us as yet and hasn't done his thing with the mark and mass-extermination of Saints, etc., so any war involving Russia until then is not Armageddon nor when Gog rises up Again after the Millenial reign... but some would love to deceive the Christians so that they'll be looking for Christ to come back and also the Jewish people think that this is Ezekiel's vision and that The LORD will send the Son of David to bring peace out of it, as we read in 38 & 39.
The whole last days System is based upon deception and attempting to confuse the Christians and Jews.

GOD Bless!

The whole last days System is based upon deception and attempting to confuse the Christians and Jews.

I dont think it's as diabolical as you put it...lol

And before someone states that the teaching of a pre-trib rapture started in the 1800's, it's already been proven on another thread that there were writings and teachings of a pre-trib rapture that date back to the second generation of the Church... around 150 AD.

Krispy

"Informed sources say that the Russians have warned of "unpredictable consequences" in the event that Iran is attacked, with some Russians saying that the Russian military will take part in the possible war because it would threaten its vital interests in the region. "..OJ

This is why I think Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been so obviously provocative toward Israel; to lure them into attacking, knowing that Russia has committed herself as an ally. He has publicly called for their annihilation several times, with racial slurs that would make Hitler blush.

He has set in motion a Nuclear Weapons program, that is close to fulfillment, and created a rocket program that could reach Tel Aviv. He rants and raves daily, and declares that the destruction of all Israel is his desire. Why? There is more to the story.

The coming of the 12th Mahdi, the Messiah of Islam, is soon to appear. The President of Iran believes...............................

"Remarkably, the 12th Imam theory plays heavily into the world’s current concerns with Iran. The Shiite Muslim President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is deeply committed to the Islamic Messiah, al Mahdi. There have been many through the years claiming to be the Hidden Imam but Ahmadinejad believes he is yet to come.

He claims that he is to personally prepare the world for the coming Mahdi. In order to save the world, it must be in a state of chaos and subjugation. Ahmadinejad claims he was “directed by Allah to pave the way for the glorious appearance of the Mahdi”. This apocalyptic directive includes some very scary proclamations. "http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/12th-imam.htm

His Mahdi is the Christian Anti-Christ, and his Jesus is the Christian's "FALSE PROPHET", that accompanies him. The Lord is sending a very strong signal to us, and even to all of Islam by presenting the Truth, and the Lie, and allowing it to be prophesied in two formats; One from Hell, one from His Throne.

I believe that this will produce the White Horse, that conquers, and I believe that Islam will prevail, even here in America, and I believe that Sharia is the Mark. Why?

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months....."

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations...[ even America ]

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. "

Yes OJ, the implication is simple to me. We are watching the Tribulation bore right down upon us, and most of us are sound asleep. I believe that these events , that we watch right now centered around Israel and her conflict, will usher in the very End, with 3 billion or more killed...and then the beast .

Let us never forget that also, this is the event that Jesus Himself as the Creator and God almighty will return to put an end to....and the beast, and the false prophet will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire, and we will be gathered by His angels to Him, forever......and a nice supper too...to meet our family and Himself! Hallelujah. Never give up. Trust God, for he will Never forsake any who have put their trust in Him!

TWO THINGS TO CONSIDER: "THAT DAY [ the day Jesus returns ] SHALL NOT COME EXCEPT...[ the man of sin be revealed ]....

Let no man deceive you by any means: for THAT DAY shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."........

AND [2] ...HAVE YOU EVER EXPERIENCED A TIME OF AFFLICTION SO SEVERE SUCH AS HAS NEVER BEEN SINCE THE BEGINNING?

"For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."...JESUS

AND THEN, AT THAT TIME, JESUS RETURNS...AFTER THE DAYS OF THAT TRIBULATION...................

"But in those days, AFTER that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

AND THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

AND THEN shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

To me, it is not so complicated.

"But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. "....JESUS

To be serious no matter what position on the tribulation and rapture you hold one can not deny things are going on in Israel and the middle east, and its interesting times we live in seeing the final stage is being set that has been prophesied. I try everyday to stir myself up and be ready for what God has planned for me, it is not by chance that we as Gods children live in this time of history. And also a reminder what revelation says we should all do "God blesses the one who reads the words of this prophecy to the church, and he blesses all who listen to its message and obey what it says, for the time is near"

My point exactly. I'm trying to say that it matters not what you think about the rapture... only a fool can look at the Middle East right now and come away saying that there is nothing of Biblical significance going on there.

There being a nation called Israel is a prophectic fulfillment and a miracle. Some will argue that it's not a spiritual Israel... but it wont be right now. Until Jesus reveals himself to Israel they are lost and can not be "spiritual" anyway. But we are most certainly seeing the stage being set for the end times to be played out.

There can be no doubt about that.

Krispy

The mahdi, huh? All this tme I thought the antochrist was the Pope or the Dali Lana. Guess I missed it again. Oh well. Guess Jack Van Impi or Hal Lindsey will have to straighten me out.

In the meantime going to listen to some more of Jesus and Art Katz. They are easier to understand.

Bearmaster definitely standing down.

Dear Krispy, I wasn't implying the timing of the resurrection of the Saints, but the sequence of events - that any major war before antiChrist is revealed is not Armageddon or the war mentioned in Ezek 38 & 39 because those are 'after' antiChrist has been ruling for his term.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

The only reason I posted at all is because these are the days when the deception is being laid for that chpt in 2Thess 2, for the Jews and the Christians.
The man that brings 'peace' through any major events will be the son of perdition that deceives many.

We're yet to see the time of Jacob's trouble. Israel will come under the murderous rule of antiChrist as well.

The sequence is important for us to 'watch' and there's no way that Jesus' words about "another you'll accept" that He spoke to the non-Remnant Jews could come to pass, by them accepting this so-called "man of peace", if he were Muslim or anything else but of a certain blood-line. They could never be deceived to think that anyone is "the son of David" unless is lineage is such [though counterfeit]. In other words - from the synagogue of Satan, to us - but to them - he'll have the supposed "bloodline" of King David and many of the powers that be, claim that bloodline.

Only concerned for their sake. Christians have the Bible, both old and new testaments to get the time-line of events down - the Jewish people don't - yet.

Blessings!

Oh boy... here we go.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant

If we are ignorant of the context of Daniel's words and how they cross-reference to the Revelation and other O.T. prophet's words - [from Dan 7 and then 8, where we see "the little horn that rises up 'after' the Medes and Persians are taken Down', and on through Dan chpt 12] and say that all these things have already happened and that there are no dual prophesies within the O.T. prophet's books - Who will laugh then when all these chpts are fulfilled?

We can read these chpts in Daniel with understanding and with cross-referencing to the other O.T. prophets and NT prophesies with the promise of John 16:13 - and He will show us things to come or we can scoff at His Words.

Daniel's words were sealed until the time of the end and at the time of the end, the Lamb unseals them and releases the seals in Rev chpt 6, etc..

Does anyone know where in the Bible that the saying "He that laughs last, laughs best." is found?

"My point exactly. I'm trying to say that it matters not what you think about the rapture... only a fool can look at the Middle East right now and come away saying that there is nothing of Biblical significance going on there."
KK.

In the end, No man knows the day or the hour, and in a sense let us realize that everyman will be wrong, to one degree or another, as to how and when the events will come to pass. What matters is that you are prepared to meet Him, and we all will, one way or another.

I am Post Tribber in my thinking, as I have outlined below, but this in no means fades into a dogma that I cannot receive my brothers who may believe otherwise, and as I see it, yes, the anti-Christ will come out of Islam, and above all, I take the Bible as Supreme, far above the rantings of a false prophet; Mohammad.

What matters is that the Bible, and Jesus prophesied that this man will be revealed.....and there is a part about a wound to the head; surviving a mortal wound, and it being a world-wide event. This will come to pass.

All of us that possess the Holy Spirit ought to be concerned about strengthening the true church, and edifying the church, so that we are prepared. This preparation will be of only one ilk; FAITH. All of the farms in Idaho will not save you. there will be no place to hide, unless the Lord does hide us; and some will be hid by Him.

My grief in SOME pretribbers, is they have coupled their ideas with the heresies of the doctrines of Extreme grace; IE: once saved, always saved, and they believe that whatever they do, however they live, is acceptable to God, and when the trouble comes, they will just fly away, Raptured away from all sorrow, because they were taught so.

In my sight, these will be the most pitiful; those of no oil. These, in my view, will be those of the TEN VIRGINS. 5 had oil, five had no oil, and no light, no hope, no faith to carry them through the dark night.

This is why I believe that doctrine is so awful. Yet, there are many with God who trust in such a faith. I will not, nor do not reject them. they are mine; those that are born twice. I fear for my own life, that I would survive.
.................................................., and do pray daily that I might be counted worthy.............

"For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. "

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
.....................................................

But I might ask, why would I pray to Jesus to escape these things, if I were already raptured and had escaped?

I want us all there, with our God.

My grief in SOME pretribbers, is they have coupled their ideas with the heresies of the doctrines of Extreme grace; IE: once saved, always saved, and they believe that whatever they do, however they live, is acceptable to God, and when the trouble comes, they will just fly away, Raptured away from all sorrow, because they were taught so.

Thats actually a gross misrepresentation of what people who believe in eternal security teach and believe. Those who believe they can live and act and behave any old way they want, and it is acceptable to God do not understand the gospel and are not even saved to begin with.

That is not what eternal security means at all. And I know of no one who teaches that. That is one doctrine that gets smeared, misrepresented and frankly... lied about... on this forum with wreckless abandon and not a word of warning about it from the leaders of this forum.

You may not agree with that teaching, and that's ok. You dont have to. But at least represent it properly.

Krispy

Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you *all things.*

1Pe 1:10,11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time *the Spirit of Christ which was in them* did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, *and the glory that should follow*.

By these two verses we see that Christ spoke through the Old Testament prophets and through the Apostle's pens and "all things" pertaining to the last days have been written by Him through both testaments and we can read and know "all things" about the last days - as He promised.... that that day will Not overtake us as a thief, because we obeyed Him and "watched" the signs that He's given through His holy prophets and Apostles for us to watch. Praise The LORD of Glory!

We merely need to pray - read - listen and research much.

"My grief in SOME pretribbers, is they have coupled their ideas with the heresies of the doctrines of Extreme grace; IE: once saved, always saved, and they believe that whatever they do, however they live, is acceptable to God, and when the trouble comes, they will just fly away, Raptured away from all sorrow, because they were taught so."....Brothertom

"Thats actually a gross misrepresentation of what people who believe in eternal security teach and believe. Those who believe they can live and act and behave any old way they want, and it is acceptable to God do not understand the gospel and are not even saved to begin with." KK....

No, it is not a "gross misrepresentation", for I clearly said SOME. I did not lump all pre-tribbers into that party, but, in truth there are some. I have heard John Hagee, TBN preachers, and many more justify this doctrine under the canopy of, "God has not appointed us to Wrath". I have testified in these churches, and was hated...I know what I speak of.

I have clearly confronted some, and have heard this; I am saved no matter what, from perhaps hundreds. My good friend, who became a once saved always saved, lives a life like this, and confessed this idea often..."NO MATTER WHAT...I CANNOT BE UNSAVED!"

John Hagee stated that America will fall when all of the Christians fly away, but not before. The absence of the Christian economy will sink the USA. I heard this myself.

I did not expect this knee jerk reaction from you, Krispy...especially when I stated that I receive my pre-trib brothers, and implied that really none of us know the exact format that will occur...it will be what it is. What matters is Fruit...and that fruit MUST be holiness unto the Lord....For without holiness no man shall see God.

This trumps everything, and whatever you or me may or may not "Believe". Without Holiness...without holiness...No man shall see God. It is interesting that I quoted much undeniable scripture from the lips of Jesus, and your response is:

" That is not what eternal security means at all. And I know of no one who teaches that. That is one doctrine that gets smeared, misrepresented and frankly... lied about... on this forum with wreckless abandon and not a word of warning about it from the leaders of this forum.
You may not agree with that teaching, and that's ok. You dont have to. But at least represent it properly."KK

Being lumped in as "a Liar with reckless abandon, and smearing your faith." ?

Could you be responding to my opinion with accusation, and character assassination, rather than a discussion of faith, and edification, according to the Scripture? I think so.

This thread is NOT about the conflict of when Jesus returns. It is about events in the mid-east that look like War, and possibly the beginning of the Tribulation, as prophesied throughout the bible. I think it is soon.

Please endeavor not to attack everyone who may disagree with you. It does not matter what you believe, or I , about prophesy. It is going to happen whatever we believe, according to His Faith, His will. He has given us many warnings, and much counsel, for us to be prepared for this event. I, as I said, want us all to be there, and I fear for me also.

Back to Thread? please.

Wow... that was a little over the top. I was just pointing out that in my opinion what you said misrepresented the doctrine of "eternal security". Thats all.

You read waaaaay too much into it. I feel bad that you wrote all of that because you misunderstood my intentions. It was unneccessary.

By the way, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on TBN teaching eternal security. Most, if not all, Charismatics and Pentecostals are far far far from Reformed in their doctrine and teach that you can lose your salvation. I know... I used to be one. I know exactly what they teach.

:-) chill brother.

Krispy