Assemblies of God lays off 47 people at HQ

sermonindex Apr 14, 2012

The Assemblies of God church's leaders said Thursday that they laid off 47 of the international headquarter's 830 employees. They said many of the layoffs are the result of switching from print to digital publications. They also said it's possible that continuing changes in technology could mean more layoffs.

The people losing their jobs operate the printing presses of Gospel Publishing House. It has been turning out Sunday School materials, books and the denomination's weekly magazine since the denomination's beginning.

Print orders are off, however, revenue is down, and church leaders say the use of online resources continues to replace the use of printed materials. Forty percent of pentecostals are under 25 years old and, like others their age, prefer the electronic page. ...

read more: http://goo.gl/AuM36

sermonindex Apr 14, 2012

hey, its a business, right?

i guess 47 more people applying for food stamps, joining the 47 million already on food stamps, that i hear conservatives becrying as the entitlement class.

guess the other 783 folks at AoG HQ couldnt pitch in 10% to keep the 47........naw, its a business, right?

L

Lysa Apr 14, 2012

HezWelling wrote:
guess the other 783 folks at AoG HQ couldnt pitch in 10% to keep the 47........naw, its a business, right?

This is exactly right brother! thanks for pointing that out.

God bless,
Lisa

S

Solomon101 Apr 14, 2012

HEZ WELLING STATED: hey, its a business, right?

I RESPOND: Well, the printing department is. It exists for the express reason of providing printed materials (Sunday School literature, magazines, etc.) for the churches and people within the AOG.

They also were given reasonable severance packages and help with finding new employment. Some may take other positions within the AOG headquarters as they become available.

However, the bottom line is this - if the printed material orders have dropped off and apparently will not recover you can't really afford to pay people to simply sit around and watch the walls.

Although I am sad anyone has to go through a new job search.... I am also happy about the circumstances that make it a necessity.

For example: from the article-

1. The Assemblies of God is the world’s largest Pentecostal denomination with more than 64 million members worldwide.

2. Today, the Assemblies of God is the fastest growing major denomination in the United States with 12,595 churches and over 3 million members and adherents.

( INSERT SOLOMON -Those things are largely happening because of a focus on prayer, evangelism, and renewed emphasis on church planting. We are believing, praying, strategizing, and prioritizing the planting of 500 new churches a year. These are largely focused on reaching geographic or ethnic population groups that are now under served by an evangelical witness.
END INSERT)

3.Forty percent of pentecostals are under 25 years old and, like others their age, prefer the electronic page. END ARTICLE QUOTES

THAT is great news! God IS allowing us to effectively reach this generation. I see so many of them making a stand for Godliness, exhibiting a great witness, and showing incredible maturity. It sometimes takes my breath away with hope when I see them so often doing the hard...but right and Godly things.

I hate to see the workers at AOG headquarters go through a job change. However, God is still on the throne and their supplier. The larger picture of reaching so many people for Christ, especially the children, teens, and twenties, that I am for doing all we can to accomplish it.

80% of all people who ever give their life to Christ have done so by age 18. 90% who ever give their heart to Christ have done so by age 20.
Well....if 90% of salvations happen in that age group where should we perhaps be spending 90% of our evangelism efforts, manpower, prayer, dollars, etc?
I would think that if a church or fellowship were actually interested in catching fish (people) for Jesus then they would mostly be fishing where the fish are most catchable!

Interesting study for all of us. If 90% plus of all commitments to Christ happen before a person reaches age 20 a bit of research might be in order. What percentage of your churches/fellowships outreach efforts are aimed at this group? What percentage of dollars that are spent on programming or evangelism are targeted at this age group? When making considerations for the hours volunteers invest in the church/fellowship how much of it is aimed at this group? More importantly... how much of a voice does that age group have in establishing ideas, outreaches, etc. to their peers?

The answers to these questions will determine for many denominations/fellowships/groups whether they have had a past or a past AND a future.

The answers to the questions seem easy..... but the commitment to actually make it happen when long held opinions, and traditions must be broken to accomplish it.... well it becomes a much different animal.

EVERYONE says they believe in evangelism. However, when it begins to affect them and their comfort zones they often balk. The price tags of change are to great for them to pay... even if it means effectively reaching or losing the next generation of people. Change is to high of a price tag in many peoples mind. They would never say that... but it is true none the less.

R

rbanks Apr 14, 2012

My thoughts are why are we even posting this thread or posting on it without prayer for the AOG and the people who lost there jobs.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Excellent post Solomon!

Blessings...from brother rbanks

K

KingJimmy Apr 14, 2012

Let us not judge the Assemblies of God for doing this. I'm sure it was not an easy decision to come by. It is never easy to lay people off, no matter what "business" you are in. I've worked for one of the largest law firms in the world, and in my office they laid off about 10-20% of the attorneys and staff in one year. The administrator over this office was very far from being a godly man. Yet, when it came to having let all these people go, I saw how it was a very difficult thing for him to do. If it were this difficult for a man who didn't know the Lord, I can only imagine how difficult it was to do for those who have.

sermonindex Apr 14, 2012

edit to remove unedifying sarcasm:

Here are a couple of quick points I would like to make without using any sarcasm, though I think the plain truth will not go over any better.

1) Christ died not die to build a religious organization. The Bible knows nothing of paid staffs at religious businesses that claim to speak for Christ.

2) The Bible knows nothing about a world wide religious organization at all- only a world wide group of people who are called out of the world. The first world wide religious organization that claimed to be of Christ was rome. The great whore has many harlot daughters.

3) In a day when most church people are not saved and the ear ticklers get the biggest crowd, bragging about large numbers may not be wise.

4) http://truedsicernment.com/2011/01/20/assemblies-of-god-serial-bullies-from-the-pulpit/

To save anyone who is really confused about what and who the church is from having to type a false rebuke - I am coming against a man made religious business here, not a local church or individual believer. But Jim - that man made religous organization/business is made up of some true believers. Sadly it is, I hope the true believers will seperate from the organization.

-Jim

sermonindex Apr 15, 2012

lets just do a little math. say the 783 make an avg of 25k a year, 10% of that is $2500.00, times that by 783, and you get $1,957,500.00 divide that by 47,and those 47 would get $41,648.93...so you wouldnt even have to do 10% based on my median salary, to keep 47 PEOPLE, actual living breathing people in a job, that is their calling and passion...not some law firm, or any other worldly enterprise...but the Assemblies of God, borne out of a revival, that was NOMINALLY led by one-eyed black preacher with a small pox scarred face, whose "collection plate" was a simple box tacked onto the back wall of humble rundown stable/church located in downtown LA, circa 1906.

i think i'll just stop there, its all making me sick with grief. doing "church" is a GREAT business, rome showed the protestants that, and the pentecostals TOO!!! say and do the right things, maybe even deliever "value voters", and just think, elect the "right" president, and you might even get an invitation to the WHITE HOUSE. ...or just think, you can do the circus act church, wind up on TBN, become a religious star, and you can own all sorts of goodies, multiple mansions, private jets, and many people telling you how "annointed" you are. gee, religion sure can be fun and profitable.

A

ADisciple Apr 15, 2012

“The truth must be told. Azusa began to fail the Lord also early in her history. God showed me one day that they were going to organize, though not a word had been said in my hearing about it. The Spirit revealed it to me. He had me get up and warn them of making a ‘party’ spirit of the Pentecostal work. The ‘baptized’ saints were to remain ‘one body,’ even as they had been called, and to be free as His Spirit was free, not ‘entangled again in a yoke of (ecclesiastical) bondage.’”
\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Frank Bartleman, Azusa Street

sermonindex Apr 15, 2012

"borne out of a revival, that was NOMINALLY led by one-eyed black preacher with a small pox scarred face, whose "collection plate" was a simple box tacked onto the back wall of humble rundown stable/church located in downtown LA, circa 1906."

Times have changed Neil. That is a long way from the modern Assemblies of God Corporation of America. Breaks my heart to think of the beginnings in light of my wife having to sit in the AOG moms group every week being sold mary kay and other products by the music pastors wife and children’s pastor wife while starving spiritually as a new believer. God help me I did not know any better as a young Christian back then to be made merchandise of and subject my wife to it. Paid my tithes to keep it going (my sacrifice will burn up as chaff on the day of judgment), volunteered time (that too will go up in smoke), was deceived and being deceived.

Jesus saved me from it and now I get to serve his kingdom. Thankfully King Jesus doesn’t layoff his laborers... and he doesn’t make merchandise of the pew warmers either. We are so far from normal new testament christianity - like the [blind] religious people of the first century. Many traditions to make void the truth of God.

R

rbanks Apr 15, 2012

Matthew 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Blessings...from brother rbanks

sermonindex Apr 15, 2012

David Wilkerson has a powerful message on this subject. It is on SI titled "God is Training A Holy Remnant". I will warn the religious who are easilly offended that he states the denominational church system is largely abandoned by God, controlled by satan, and God is working outside of organized religion in these last days to name a few.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3292&commentView=itemComments

S

Solomon101 Apr 15, 2012

@ HezWellig-

Wow... all I can say is that you are certainly ill informed. I know probably 200+ of those people working at AOG headquarters. Running a printing press is just a job to the vast majority of folks there or elsewhere. It is not seen as a "mission" or "life's passion" to any of them that I am aware of. I have family in that department and am sure of which I speak. Several of the employees are not even AOG. One need not be AOG to run a printing press, clean rollers, etc. There are folks of several faith backgrounds employed at AOG headquarters. Certainly the lions share are AOG but certainly not cornered on the market.

I personally know few people making $25,000 a year that can afford to just take a 10% / $2500 pay cut. Can You? If so maybe you can contact them and be the first pledge to give them $2500 to save their jobs... that do not exist. Could you honestly pay someone $25,000 when there WAS NO WORK TO DO?!?! If you can then get on the phone and raise support to pay for jobs that consist of looking at the walls. If you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is then you are in error to cast negativity at others. That would be the epitome of hypocritical. imho.

I also noticed you fail to take into account the massive prayer, evangelistic and church planting efforts that are showing tremendous results. Are you against that as well??? I have no problem listing the numbers of people making commitments to Christ..or church growth at all. In fact neither does the Bible. Read the book of Acts again... you will find salvations, spirit baptisms, and church growth recorded in numerical detail. I fail to see why following the book of Acts is cause to be called, in jimdied2sins words, " a daughter of the great whore of Babylon"

The link you share attacking the New York District concerning church foreclosures was filled with a vast amount of misrepresentation. When local autonomous churches choose to affiliate with the AOG they willingly choose to enter into a cooperative fellowship. The AOG isn't even a denomination. It is a cooperative fellowship of local self governing autonomous churches that choose to work together to accomplish greater good.

On of the items that is commonly contained in the constitution and bylaws when a local church incorporates concerns any buildings, property, etc. that the church may obtain over time. It is common for that to include a clause that states if the fellowship goes through a split or if leadership later arises that wishes to lead it out of the AOG they may do so. However, since the facilities ministries, facilities, etc. were established under the AOG, the resources were raised for AOG churches, and that district may well have invested funds, etc. to get it started then the clause often will retain the facilities for any people that wish to remain as an AOG fellowship. About the only way to have a church "seized" is for a couple of leaders (pastors, etc.) to try and take the church out of the AOG and take it totally independent. Many "independent" churches were "started" this way. The attempting to take the church out of the AOG would be a clear violation of the charter that was willingly adopted by the church at its inception. If there are people who wish to remain in the AOG the facility will be used by them to continue the church. THAT is about the only way these things go to court. A local leader tries to take the church and its facilities out of a fellowship and under his own independent authority... a violation of the churches stated constitution and bylaws thus requiring the AOG to act in behalf of the members who have requested to stay in the AOG. Not much of any other way this happens... actually none that I have ever seen or been made aware of.

You are speaking of things that you have very limited, if any, awareness and knowledge of. They are not as you seem to have represented them. I feel bad having to defend brothers from your vicious statements. However, that is sadly the case on far, far, far, to many threads on SI. Attackers are a plenty on the threads here.

Sadly, you fail to notice the tremendous good, evangelism, discipleship, and spiritual growth happening in the fellowship. I see it every day. It is just a group of like minded people and churches that have willingly chosen to work together to accomplish the great commission. That is a worthy endeavor.... the criticism of it by those doing little if anything for God is not. imho.

sermonindex Apr 15, 2012

i was "raised" up in the Assemblies of God, so i JUST might have SOME knowledge of the polity of the denomination.

That said, i will not speak one ill word against the AoG, even i see and hear and discern things that grieve no end.

When, as a Jew, (and NOT a secular, ethnic Jew) i walked into an AoG Church for the first time,led there by God the Holy Ghost, after having apprehended that Jesus is Messiah is REAL, i had no clue, about ANYTHING the Gentiles had done to The Way. i never knew the theological differences, say between the roman institution and New Testament Protestant Churches AND Denominations, nor did i even know what Pentecostalism was.......i was open, no presuppositions.

so for you to counter me, with such remarks, ie

Wow... all I can say is that you are certainly ill informed.

is unwise...you dont know what i know, you dont know that i've sat in many district presbyter meetings and breakfasts....or taught many a childrens church out of a cirriculum, sent by Springfield, which i will not editorialize on, but grieved over, when i prepared in mind and prayer.

and you wrote this:

You are speaking of things that you have very limited, if any, awareness and knowledge of. They are not as you seem to have represented them. I feel bad having to defend brothers from your vicious statements. However, that is sadly the case on far, far, far, to many threads on SI. Attackers are a plenty on the threads here.

"vicious"? "attacking"?...i'll forgive for your presumption on my "limited awareness and knowledge"....but "attacking"?

no, my brother, i am GRIEVED to the core of my being by it all! GRIEVED! Heartbroken! and i would tell you all the reasons why i feel this way, but its all so painful, that i dont even want to type the WORDS on a public forum, except for one thing, i WILL bring up.

Knowing the genesis of the denomination, Brother Cashwell of Dunn, NC...and reading Frank Bartlemans account of Azusa Street, where he exulted "that the colorline was washed away in the Blood"...and seeing the two main denominations borne out of the Revival, which MANY today, grievously say was no revival at all, these two denominations being, AoG, predominatly white, and COGIC, the Church of God in Christ, which is black.

Now i know all about, letters and statements signed between the two, reconciliation, etc. And i begged, pleaded, implored by dear brother and best friend, pastor of my initial Church, "lets get back to Azusa, lets fly in the face of the world, and search out a COGIC Church, and in the Love of Jesus, lets become sisters Churches, going back and forth to the other facilities"....and there was absolutely no traction on what the Holy Spirit led my heart to say.nothing happpened.

i wasnt mad, cross, angry, vicious, just sad and grieved. Like i am now, about the WHOLE of the North American Church, so divided...and i might add, becoming SO POLITICIZED...and i dont want to expand on THAT either.

Now, i tell you what i AM doing in my area, which is very rural now. i am engaging in deep personal work, but i have also been going to Church after Church...the nearest town is 700 souls, and thats a larger town. God had me do something i never thought i would, i walked into a United Methodist Church, listened to the message, loved on the saints, loved on the pastor, burned him a worship cd, and when i went in there, i had no presuppositions, or prejudgements, but i can tell you this, it felt as cold and dry as a tomb, nice facilities, nice people....but no tarrying at the altar, the folks bolted out the pews once the final hymn was sung. Then i went to the "other" Church, which was a "oneness" Pentecostal Church, UPCI, and i wanted to flee, but God told me "stay"...so i did, and i very sweetly asked the pastor, isnt UPCI "oneness"...oh my, he asked me, "how's you know that word?"...just told him i did, and then he proceeded to try and "sell" me on "oneness"...or "Jesus Name Only"...just like a salesman, he's a dear man, believes what he feels led to believe, i listened for a spell, nodded, and just said, "well, guess we'll agree to disagree"...and i said it sweet.

SO, here's where i'm led, as 95% of the areas Churches are either United Methodist, Lutheran or roman. There is an old storefront, used to be a second hand store, now its empty, hundred year old bldg, on Main street of this 700 person, i'm good friends with the fella who owns the bldg, and its just sitting empty. So i'm going to ask the man, doesnt know Jesus, but he likes me, knows i follow Jesus, if i can rent it off him, and then i'm going to call the two pastors i mentioned above, and ask them if they'd care to join me in a Tues or Thurs night prayer meeting, no agenda, except to ask God to pour His Waters on a dry and thirsty ground, and beg God come down in Power and saturate the district with His Spirit, and bring Revival...and on the front of that storfront, i'm going to put up a wooden sign with One Name on It, JESUS.

Lord hasnt given me the call yet, i'm waiting on Him......and there's one human agent, now with the Lord, who i been listening to speak, and thats Len Ravenhill, and if you think what i wrote was "vicious"...maybe you havent been listening to Len at all...or maybe you just hear him different, i dont know.

Now if i stumbled you, ie made you angry, or cross with my words, i beg your forgiveness, but i'll tell you what i'm NOT going to do, i'm not going to be a soft sissy boy, "yes and amening" what the crowd wants to hear, when God the Holy Spirit leads me otherwise. Better to have the crowd against me and the LORD with me, then the other way around, and thats whats been happening in the Body of Christ in North America as far as the Spirit testfiies to me.....there it is my brother, May the Grace of God and the peace of the Holy Spirit and the Love of Jesus be on you, forever...flee babylon. neil

W

Who_Me Apr 18, 2012

For all the arm-chair generals who think this is (or isn't) a good idea, please keep one thing in mind. On Thursday there were 47 people who felt their world crash down on their heads. I live in Springfield and I've heard tales of grown men crying. I know of families that are seriously hurting. I know of people who received a pink slip who were the victims of players who still have jobs. I know people who still have jobs who feel a great deal of survivor guilt. They feel quite relieved to have a job, but they're in pain for their friends and family members.

So whether or not the layoff was the right decision is in God's hands. He is just and He can take care of all His children. But please have more compassion than judgment. This is painful for those of us in Springfield, and particularly painful for 47 people without a job in a down economy.