I would like to know people's opinions on these two words.Both of these words are used in Paul's first letter to Timothy chapter 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4 Who will [thelo] have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.8 I will [boulomai] therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
God delights, because of an indwelling inclination – thelo – in the salvation of all men, wills the salvation of all men.The practical outcome of a proper understanding of and of hearts moved by God’s desire for the salvation of all men. The practical outcome in a firm, deliberate, common decision – boulomai - to gather in sober, substantial prayer.The former substantiates inclination and delight, the latter lifts forward the necessity, something which is done by deliberate choice – yet not without delight.
Hi Nasher.Good to see you on Sunday! Do you have Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words? It is a must for anyone wanting to do serious word-study in the scriptures. Vine distinguishes the two words by saying:1. thelO: to will, to wish, implying volition and purpose, frequently a determination, it is most usually rendered to will. It is often translated 'to desire' in the 1881 Revised Version (American Standard Version)2. boulomai: to wish to will deliberately, expresses more strongly that thelO the deliberate exercise of the will it is also often ranslated 'to desire'in the 1881 Revised Version.I would say 'thelO' speaks more in our terms of 'willingness', while boulomai has more of the sense of a decision.This opens up an interesting issue. Does the Bible teach that 'the will' is a faculty of the soul? Teachers and preachers down the ages have concluded that it does. e.g. Luther: the Bondage of the Will, Edwards; the freedom of the will (by which he meant the same as Luther's 'bondage') However I can't find this usage in the NT. The Will is used of an authoratitive declaration of a king or of God, and is legitimate in the sense of a 'last will and testment', but the preachers' constant reference to 'your will must sumbit, be conquered, be broken' does not seem to square with the way the Bible uses the word. I am always anxious when psychological terms become the language of the people of God. The amount of writing and discussing that has gone into 'the human will' is amazing. What would be even more amazing is if there were no such thing! Suppose there is no such thing as 'volition' but just simple choices to be made when they are presented to us...More if you want it...
Hi philologos, I don't have a copy, can I get a module of it for Online Bible?Question - If it is God's will (thelo) that all men are to be saved, then why has He only chosen a few to be saved?
Am I too blunt if I put it as follows:There seems to be only a few who He has chosen to become and be occupied with His eternal purposes.The rest of the ones who merit themselves as being chosen have chosen to do other things.
Iwpray, have you been chosen to become occupied with people who God has chosen to become occupied with His eternal purposes? ;)
Dear Nasher,I suppose you are asking about my daily work...I manage a network of prayer units in about 115 nations.I have been working with counselling projects.I have been travelling in Africa and Russia - mostly - as intercessor and teaching on intercession.There are more to add to this, but it will do for now.Would be interesting to hear about you.
Iwpray, I'm sure you're very busy with the Lord's work.The only reason I posted that was because you seemed to think I spent my whole time occupied with God's eternal purpose!Or have I gotten the wrong stick of the end? ;)
My dear Nasher,My reply was not intended to point a finger at you or insinuate this or that.I tried to point out the general dilemma in the Church, perhaps a bit provocative but with no intention to hurt anybody.Lars
Do you have Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words?Yes I have that volume, I agree it is a necessity for these type of word studies. I just also got: "Vincents Word Studies In The New Testament", So far its great. here is some insight on those two words from vincent:Verse 4:Who will have all men to be saved. Lit who willeth all men, etcwho or seeing that he, giving ground to the previous statement. Prayer to God for all is acceptable to him, because he wills the salvation of all. willeth, marking a determinate purpose.Come to the knowlege of the truth. The phrase is only here and 2 Tim 3:7. The word for 'knowlege' here singifies advanced or full knoweldge.Verse 8:I will Better, I desire
quote [There seems to be only a few who He has chosen to become and be occupied with His eternal purposes.]I wonder why you say this?quote [The rest of the ones who merit themselves as being chosen have chosen to do other things.]How do we 'merit ourselves'?
x. sorry this was a test which I can't remove!
Hi philologos, I don't have a copy, can I get a module of it for Online Bible?Question - If it is God's will (thelo) that all men are to be saved, then why has He only chosen a few to be saved?
NasherNo, not as far as I know. It will cost you about £20 I think. There is a version which included the OT but the OT is incomplete and Hebrew was not the area of Vines expertise. Nevertheless it is worth having the OT bits if you can get them.
Thanks Ron, I'll look into getting that.Any ideas to my question?
Any ideas to my question?Nasher I think the questions you are asking are good but are way to generalized and generic, therefore it would take way to long to describe and explore all the facets of that question. I would suggest going through and reading a larger volume on the subject then try to discuss some specific points to this doctrine. If you want a few books that me or others recommend let us know.
This discussion is locked.
