Frank Volia discussion thread deleted and how to move forward..

Saints,

I do apologize for posting this past thread where I did not fully agree with the way this brothers name was slandered and I did not read it carefully or pray before posting so I ask the communities forgiveness for this.

Though I felt posting the article about Frank Viola and ideas from his book could bring some fruitful discussions on extremes and errors and also perhaps show some of the teachings that Frank Viola brings out as necessary and good. It is hard in a way when a brother is trying to speak beyond the current evangelical traditions we are trapped in and can go to extremes to make his point. I value some things he says from my little reading of his books and there is truth we all need to learn and understand. But also there are dangers to just leave all traditions and church history to go back to an organic model. Especially towards teachings on submission to authority and leaders in local bodies of believers.

Also I was saddened by the speaking against the brothers name specifically towards family and others details. I do believe as others that some of the teachings are not correct and that needs to be addressed so believers do not whole-heartily believe everything his books says without comparing the scriptures but sadly the opposite has happened by many in this thread to just speak very evil of it all. May God help us to have love and balance and learn from even our "enemies" may we have the heart of Paul the Apostle to see unity amongst brothers even of different opinions, callings and viewpoints.

So we have deleted the past thread and ask that any discussions going forward would not centre on accusing or slandering a brother but would talk about the issues. So specifically start a NEW THREAD on a topic of Church Government, Pagan practice, etc. And please do not use this thread to re-iniate slanderous remarks against a brother. If you have personal concerns I recommend you go to the ministry website of Frank Volia to talk with him personally.

http://frankviola.org/

Thank you saints for keeping and making the ministry of SermonIndex.net a salt and light in the earth and allowing our discussions to fulfill these Scripture(s):

Philippians 2:3 "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves,"

Philippians 2:14-15 "Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”[c] Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky"

May we be found without an arguing spirit and to not be able to be accused of the enemy of being simply fault-finders and not those who are being fruitful in our walks with the Lord in our daily lives.

Amen bro, glad to see it deleted..........bro Frank

Well!!.... I did wonder. I went to investigate Mr Viola and as I was reading some of his stuff I was agreeing with some of the things he had to say. I was going to post in that last thread about my findings but since Admin Greg started the thread with a negative tone I thought I'd be looked upon as out of step with what everyone else was saying. So I am glad to see this thread renewed. It's the same thing with Rick Warren. I like Rick, I like some of his message but that doesn't mean I am gonna like em all. So far what I have read of Viola, I have no beef with him.

Saints,

Because of the nature of the posting in the last thread about Frank Viola we have deleted the current comments that were critical. We want to try and allow these forums to be a place of fruitfulness to the Lord and not a place to accuse, condemn and slander peoples names. Therefore I would suggest that if you have a serious concern with a brother that is valid and factual then you approach him yourself in love and allow a conversation to happen that way. This is the first step that is utmost and important in conveying truth to a brother you feel is in error.

Sadly most people just do not "agree" with some things sad and lash out with very hurtful and harsh comments. So we ask on the forums here that we can follow these steps and let the Lord build a wonderful representation of His kingdom here through our words and expressions.

I personally do not agree with all of what Frank Viola has written, yet I have only read parts of Pagan Christianity. Yet if you sat down with myself you would probably not agree with all that I would say either. And that pattern is true of almost all of us. The maturity of the Saints is to know error but also to be able to agree and have unity with brothers though they hold to some teachings we would not agree with.

I see a strict baptist church model in North America just as problematic as saying there is 100% no authority or leadership in churches. Both I believe are flawed and have fundamental problems comported to the apostolic church of the book of Acts. Therefore the best way to approach things on the forums I believe is to realize we are all in different churches, movements, groups, and we all have weaknesses and strengths and therefore complement each other.

So I would ask before we critique or slander that we first learn as much as we can from a brother we disagree with then appreciate them for their unique expression in the body of Christ. And even to learn to walk in unity with that brother who we disagree with much. I remember the Lord put in my heart to sit in a car ride voluntarily with a brother I was having a very hard time with, the trip was 2 days and 20 hours of driving. It was hard at first but the Lord gave great grace and now that brother is a dear friend.

May we all take these opportunities to learn more of the ways of Christ and His kingdom of whom we all are a part who confess and believe in Him.

I remember the Lord put in my heart to sit in a car ride voluntarily with a brother I was having a very hard time with, the trip was 2 days and 20 hours of driving. It was hard at first but the Lord gave great grace and now that brother is a dear friend.

I really appreciate your words brother, it's nice to see that you do have flesh and not this strict disciplinarian all the time. I hope that you'll share more stories like the one above, it really does help in knowing people.

Be Blessed Today!

Theologynerd said:

With all due respect, I do not understand why the article was taken down.

Admin Greg said:

We want to try and allow these forums to be a place of fruitfulness to the Lord and not a place to accuse, condemn and slander peoples names.

The reason why Greg took it down was in these few short lines.

If we can expand our minds just a bit further to include the fact that we have thousands of people worldwide that are looking in on these threads every day, if they see us bickering, backbiting, condemning people, etc.. what kind of a testimony is this site projecting? Furthermore, if we condemn like that be sure that we will turn on ourselves with the same.

I commend the brother for doing what he felt necessary to get rid of such stuff, it's not becoming as brothers and sisters to do such things. If anyone wants to do that sort of thing, then by all means find a site that does that and throw stones all day if they like. But it should not be done here.

The reason why Greg took it down was in these few short lines.

If we can expand our minds just a bit further to include the fact that we have thousands of people worldwide that are looking in on these threads every day, if they see us bickering, backbiting, condemning people, etc.. what kind of a testimony is this site projecting? Furthermore, if we condemn like that be sure that we will turn on ourselves with the same.

I commend the brother for doing what he felt necessary to get rid of such stuff, it's not becoming as brothers and sisters to do such things. If anyone wants to do that sort of thing, then by all means find a site that does that and throw stones all day if they like. But it should not be done here.

I feel this brother has really caught the spirit in which I was doing this. I did after better review consider the articles about frank viola to be less constructive then I thought they would be. It is fine to talk about the aspects in the book and then quote a source but to try and demean or undermine the "man" and not the "message" is a wrong way to handle discussions on these forums.

There is a time for warning the church of errors but I would say the most effective platform is from one who has walked with God has credibility with many, who has already wept and prayed over the situation, has approached the individual in love and meekness first, these are just a few steps that one should take before publicly accusing of character flaws or other things one can not be sure of.

May all be done in the Spirit of Christ for the glory of Christ. We must be more focused on our own walks with the Lord not with defaming others. I am sure if most of us were able to sit down and have a conversation with this brother you would be surprised how much you would agree with him.

We are locking this thread and ask that these things be heeded. thank you brethren.

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We also ask anyone who has "serious" questions to contact brother Viola personally on his blog: http://frankviola.org/