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Mike Bickle wants book about Catholic mystics to be "manual" at Ihop

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

Babylon transferred her satanic worship system, where contemplative Transcendental Meditation became the vehicle to stoke the power, to Rome. Rome melded into the what we call the Roman Universal [ Catholic ] Church, that has wielded that same power; and it is wicked.

From "My word like fire!"...wordpress

Like all Christian contemplatives, Bickle works hard at presenting this [ Contemplative, Transcendental Meditation ] as biblically acceptable. He states there is “…a lot of counterfeit mysticism…” Before teaching his Christianese mantra method, he again emphasizes he is not talking about Eastern or Oprah religion.


I am sorry to say contemplative prayer seems foundational to IHOP, which means much deception has occurred, and will continue to occur. As covered elsewhere, Mike Bickle wants Fire Within, a book promoting the teachings of Catholic contemplatives Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, to be the “manual for IHOP-KC.”

Mike Bickle claims that "God is restoring contemplative prayer to the church."; He goes on to claim that contemplative prayer is a God-ordained means of entering into the fullness of God, and that the brightest lights in church history have been Roman Catholic mystics who lived during the dark ages.

He went on to say the western church had much to learn from these mystics,” writes Jocelyn Andersen. I am quoting Andersen because the contemplative teaching where Bickle says these things seems to have been removed from the web.

Long time IHOP teacher and Missions base senior leadership member Dana Candler is the author of Deep Unto Deep. A reviewer writes, “[ "Deep Unto Deep: The Journey of His Embrace"] is inspired by the journal of Dana Candler who spends most of her time in contemplative prayer in KC, Mo. at the Int. House of Prayer.”

In Communion With God: Deep Unto Deep, Candler states, “Contemplative prayer is the way into the Ocean of Divine Love. It is the way that this fire of intimacy ignites within our being. In this love communion, the tremendous experience of God in the inner man takes place. Until this inward fire is ignited, stewarded, and released within us, we will walk as dead men. For we are only alive in the realm of love.” (Italics Candler’s) [ nirvana BT ]

Contemplative prayer, Candler writes, “is the great missing element of the prayer ministry in the Church today: touching the very core of what the New Covenant is about. This very reality brings the highest transformation in this age.”

[…and them that worship and that swear by the Lord, and that swear by Mal-cham. (Zephaniah 1:5)]....

What Candler has unknowingly asserted is that the gospel is not enough–we are “dead men” until we experience the “transformation” through contemplative prayer. She, of course, would not see it this way at all. To the contemplatives, this deceptive meditative state is what Jesus intended for us all along.

Since Candler is not only a teacher, but influential in missions, are some IHOP missionaries teaching contemplative practices? [ All are!..BT ]

If we are to believe Fire Within, the contemplative book Mike Bickle wants as “the manual for IHOP-KC,” we need the contemplative teachings of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross to understand some biblical passages.title of the book is Fire Within: St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and the Gospel–On Prayer.


Incredibly, Bickle’s “manual” is about Catholic, contemplative mystics! Also for sale on the website are books by and about St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, and even Madame Guyon.

Another book being offered is The Forgotten Desert Mothers, by Laura Swan. Swan writes, “We begin to discard our old ways and go in search of new ways of communicating with God. Our prayer matures and takes on new forms.” And what are these new forms?

Swan states, ”Centering prayer, lectio divina, Christian meditation, Taize, and the Divine Office are all sought. Prayer moves us toward the simple: often sitting silently before the Divine–in contemplative or centering prayer–is all we feel drawn to do.”

Richard Foster’s Celebration of Discipline is for sale; as is Clowning in Rome and The Way of the Heart by Henri Nouwen.

James Goll’s Dream Language can also be purchased through the IHOP bookstore. According to Product Description, “After centuries of neglect, the church is rediscovering the realm of dreams and visions as a legitimate avenue for receiving divine revelation.”

Goll, too, is a contemplative. In his study guide on Consecrated Contemplative Prayer, Goll writes, “I wish to express thanks to our Lord for the writings of Richard Foster.”

I am not trying to aggravate those who support IHOP, but is it possible Bickle’s…odd…interpretation of certain Bible passages is the result of contemplative prayer? Make no mistake: contemplative practices can change–or determine–a person’s theology.

In an audio message, Mike Bickle apparently voiced great enthusiasm for contemplative prayer. Jocelyn Andersen has transcribed some of what was said. Kim Olsen of Discernit has reproduced IHOP’s promotion of contemplative prayer.

Perhaps it is not surprising that these have vanished from the web but can still be examined because of the diligence of these two saints.

One last thing: If you are wondering what contemplative prayer is, here is a link to an excellent article, What Is Spiritual Formation?

We are in a war. Through contemplative practices a false Christ–many false christs, actually–have great opportunity to deceive.


http://mywordlikefire.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/mike-bickle-of-ihop-wants-book-about-catholic-mystics-to-be-manual-for-ihop-kc/

K
KingJimmy Apr 25, 2012

Quick question: Would you be willing to apply the same criticism to A.W. Tozer who was known for his celebration of the Catholic mystics?

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

"Quick question: Would you be willing to apply the same criticism to A.W. Tozer who was known for his celebration of the Catholic mystics?"...King Jimmy

I am not applying criticism as much as posting a very thorough article posing important theological questions. So, what is your response KJ, to the question posed? Did you take time to read the article, and visit the site and study the documentation?

How do you feel about immersing your church in these practices? Do you think they are of God?

Tozer may have studied the mystics, but he never taught them as orthodoxy, and as you must know, I posted a very controversial thread about exactly that; Tozer's connection to the mystics, and some of them secular Buddhists; You talk about staining the sacred cow!

I believe we should question all things and all men under the light of the Spirit agreeing to the Word, no matter a Church or person's reputation or standing.

So the discussion here is: Transcendental meditative focus, and guided imagery, and chanting to attain revelation and Heavenly Bliss? IS THIS OF GOD?

I believe that it is not, obviously.

K
KingJimmy Apr 25, 2012

I read the essay very carefully. I was just curious.

S
Solomon101 Apr 25, 2012

@ brothetom

I read the essay you posted. It seemed to be awfully long on opinions and pretty short on facts. Well, at least that was how it seemed.

Have you actually read the book , "Fire Within" that you posted the article on?

T
Trekker Apr 25, 2012

BY IHOP you mean International House of Pancakes, right? They went out of business here, so don't worry.

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

Babylon transferred her satanic worship system, where contemplative Transcendental Meditation became the vehicle to stoke the power, to Rome

At the heart of Brother Tom's concern, it seems to me, lies a desire to draw attention to an effect. This effect is presented in the above quote. We don't personally know all the human story as to how the first world system of government, even Babylon, was migrated to Rome. We think of the four kingdoms and then we think of the men or individuals who were head of those kingdoms, we think of the division of a kingdom into four, etc. What we don't see beyond war, struggle division and individual pride of say Nebuchadnezzar, or Alexander, or Caesar, is the power behind their activities.

We do see that their activities are either spoken about or else prophesied and we do see God's attitude to the first king in that chain Nimrod. It is also curious that Nebuchadnezzar is given the name 'righteous king' which is a name of the Lord. This denotes something real and substantial about him. Even so we know that after him babel is carried all the way to Rome. From Rome it has come to the whole earth. Yet not by Caesar, but by bishops and popes.

It is a fearful knowledge to me that almost all wickedness on the earth has come by the hand of men who were convinced that they were serving God. Not that these men were altogether wicked, but that Satan has used their power and efforts to promote and present his ambition to be like God.

We can trace this 'working of iniquity' back to Satan himself, but how is it that he manages to have his outcome for an hour. What power in men makes this possible.

From a man, a city and a tower, a people, another city, to kingdoms then all the way back to a man. Its quiet a wicked journey. Nimrod had the capacity to instruct and lead those who were influenced by him to seek to ascend to heaven by means of man's efforts. So we had a city and a tower. God's response to that effort was astonishing and dramatic and sudden. Today God also has a response to the man of sin. Where does wisdom lie however with regard to these matters? The power of Satan is not Satan himself, but man. I pray that this does not cause anyone to become confused. The 'mystery of iniquity' is I believe best understood by its effect. History is only a scroll in the hand of the Almighty.

Genesis 10:10
Genesis 11:1-9
Amongst others

M
murrcolr Apr 25, 2012

Guys we must be careful not get involved in “mysticism”.

I am a guy who believes that God does a second work of grace in the believer. However in my quest for truth I have found two paths that men have walked in the past. The differences in those paths are very subtle and the false must be rejected, as one will lead you to error the other leads to truth.

1 Tim 6:20 O Timothy, guard and keep the deposit entrusted [to you]! Turn away from the irreverent babble and godless chatter, with the vain and empty and worldly phrases, and the subtleties and the contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination. (Amplified bible)

We must take heed of Paul warning to Timothy.

Avoid the mystic’s teaching as their teaching is of subtleties and contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination.

I can see the lines being drawn very clearly and it’s getting clearer every day it’s not the time to be messing around. Will you be one who will worship the beast or overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

T
Trekker Apr 25, 2012

I had read about Madame Guyon years ago but can't recall much except that she was a bit of a mystic and had rebelled against some of the Catholic system, was abused and sent to prison where she wrote many books, etc. She had a good heart
(as did Mother Teresa and Princess Diana--two people obviously not saved) and a form of religion but....not sure if she was saved or not....she seemed to have religious or spiritual experiences....but i had read other things that didnt add up or make sense in terms of doctrine....

Norman Grubb is/was a mystic also. He wrote the bio about Intercessor Rees Howells. Mystics sound very convincing.

S
Solomon101 Apr 25, 2012

I have two specific questions. The first one I have already posed to brothertom.

However, he has not yet responded so allow me broaden the base if you will.

1. Has anyone actually read the book , "Fire Within" that the article was posted on?

2. Very specifically, and in detail, please define exactly how you are defining the words, "Mystic(s)", and "Contemplative Prayer".

For example.... Contemplative prayer specifically means..... in exact detail it is...


Please fill in the blanks for us, so to speak.

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

BY IHOP you mean International House of Pancakes, right?
I didn't expect this slapstick, LOL.

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

And what is meant by mystic? God is appearing to moslems in dreams and visions. These appearances result in their salvation. Isn't't this mystical? John Bunyon was a dreamer of dreams? Woukd he not be described as a mystic?

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

Solomon101 asked a couple of questions addressed to me.They are:.........

1. Has anyone actually read the book , "Fire Within" that the article was posted on?

2. Very specifically, and in detail, please define exactly how you are defining the words, "Mystic(s)", and "Contemplative Prayer".

For example.... Contemplative prayer specifically means..... in exact detail it is...[?]

Please fill in the blanks for us, so to speak. Solomon 101............................................

I have not read the book "FIRE WITHIN", written by Roman Priest, "Father" Thomas Dubay. I see the Roman Popish church as a mortal enemy of the true church of Christ, supremely perverted and a Satanic Cult. Why would I want to read their convoluted teachings trying to support Papal worship and dominion and worship of another mediator than Christ Jesus, the omnipotent Mary, Satanic Queen of Heaven?

As far as to your demand to specifically define what Contemplative prayer IS, I leave you to the words of the teacher himself, Mike Bickle. Here, word for word, and line upon line, he answers your inquiry...................................BT

Contemplative Prayer—–Communing with the Holy Spirit who lives within you
I. Know He Lives Inside of You
II. Pray the Scripture
The goal is to search for the Spirit of Jesus in the Word and have depth, not necessarily length, in understanding the passage. Jesus is the Word (John 1) and we want to know Him, the Truth. In Him is life; it is His Spirit who gives life. The words of Scripture are Spirit and they are life (John 6:63). The entrance of the Word gives light and life (Psalm 119:130). As the Word of God enters your heart, the Spirit of God who raised Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal body (Romans 8:11).

Make sure you are searching for the Spirit of Jesus, not just searching for knowledge. Just pray the Scriptures. In simple terms, prayer is turning your heart toward God. In John 5:39, Jesus said to the Pharisees, “You do not have His Word abiding in you … you search the Scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.”

Method #1

Choose a short phrase in Scripture.

Begin slowly praying the Scripture in silence.

Focus your prayer toward the Spirit who lives inside you (John 7:38).

Remain on the phrase as long as you feel the Lord’s presence on it. Then move with Him, slowly praying through the passage phrase by phrase.

Method #2
Choose a short story in Scripture.

Read through the story several times silently.

Close your eyes and acknowledge the Spirit who lives in you.

Use your imagination to imagine yourself as one of the story characters or as an onlooker.

Play out the story in your mind applying all five of your senses.

Method #3
We call this “Beholding the Spirit Within.”

The goal is to search for and feel God’s presence inside you, not necessarily to gain more understanding in God’s Word as with the first two methods.

Begin by gently praying a short passage of Scripture in silence while focusing on the indwelling Spirit. The Scripture is used to quiet the clamoring of your soul and draw you to God. It is the connection point, the springboard into the spiritual realm.

Once you feel God’s presence, focus on it in a concentrated way.

You will be able to notice His presence now; He has always been there, but now your attention is on Him within you. The outward senses are quiet and your surface thoughts are gone. You are beginning to be consumed by the Spirit.

In this time, feel the freedom to stay quiet. Silently ask the Spirit to show you a vision, or slowly and silently say to Him, “I love You. I love You. I love You.”

Overcoming Distractions


Your mind will have to be trained in practical ways to not wander and think on other things. To overcome a wandering mind, simply begin thinking on the Scripture you have been meditating on, and focus your prayer to the Spirit within you. The Lord sees your heart as it searches for Him, and He is smiling upon you. You may become sleepy during prayer. To overcome, sit up straight instead of slouching and do not lie down. You can also begin speaking the Scripture you are meditating on under your breath until you feel the drowsiness subside, then return to the silent prayer.

Diligence in Prayer
In time these methods of praying will become easy. You will find the Spirit who lives in you if you search for Him with all your heart, but it will require time and your whole heart.

Keys to Progress


Humility-the high and lofty One dwells with the lowly in heart (Isaiah 57)

Disciplined life of prayer, fasting, giving and loving your enemies (Matthew 6)

Total abandonment in love to Jesus and loving nothing of this life (Matthew 7:14)...............

Whew! Maharishi Yoga could not have done a better job in leading us to Nirvana.

"The goal is to search for and feel God’s presence inside you, not necessarily to gain more understanding in God’s Word as with the first two methods."...MB.........


"Close your eyes and acknowledge the Spirit who lives in you.

Use your imagination to imagine yourself as one of the story characters or as an onlooker.

Play out the story in your mind applying all five of your senses.".....MB..............

"You will be able to notice His presence now; HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE???..., but now your attention is on Him within you. The outward senses are quiet and your surface thoughts are gone. You are beginning to be consumed by the Spirit.".......MB

This is at the root of the methods of Transcendental Meditation, that numbs the soul and the conscience to transport you into the cosmic realms...BT

"It is the connection point, the springboard into the spiritual realm."...Mike Bickle.......................................

Granted, as all of the mystics do, this ancient mind-set to attain another consciousness is veneered with bible quotes to bond it to orthodoxy as a means to present palatablity to the naive. It is far from Biblical Holy Doctrine, and as can be easily discerned, is couched deep within the heresies of Roman Papal Dominion. BT

S
Solomon101 Apr 25, 2012

@ BT

You stated :

As far as to your demand to specifically define what Contemplative prayer IS, I leave you to the words of the teacher himself, Mike Bickle. Here, word for word, and line upon line, he answers your inquiry

You are then saying that you agree with the definition you posted that are apparent quotes from Mike Bickle, correct? YOU are saying that YOU are agreeable to using the words from Bickle that you posted as YOUR workable definition for "contemplative prayer". Correct?

Lastly, can you provide a link, or some source that can be verified, for what was posted as quotes from Mike Bickle?

Thanks!

sermonindex Apr 25, 2012

The quotes I used are direct quoted from Mike Bickle that I personally read on the IHOP website, presented as a teaching on prayer. The article created such a firestorm, and and revealed just how steeped in Roman Mysticism that he, and IHOP were, that many Protestant orthodox flinched in horror.

As a result, the article was pulled, and deleted from Bickle's teaching/IHOP page, but not before several websites had copied, and or embedded it. Not only did I read it on IHOP's page, but also on other sites. This is in no way "MY" "workable" definition. This is a teaching verbatim directly from Mike.

"You are then saying that you agree with the definition you posted that are apparent quotes from Mike Bickle, correct? YOU are saying that YOU are agreeable to using the words from Bickle that you posted as YOUR workable definition for "contemplative prayer". Correct?" Solomon101

Not Correct; The indisputable opposite. Here is one of many.


http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/ihop-openly-promotes-contemplative-prayervisualization/

So, I take it that you support "Contemplative Prayer", and IHOP's methods? Believe what you will. This will be my last post directed to your inquiries, and, you are welcome!

M
murrcolr Apr 25, 2012

Quote: Norman Grubb is/was a mystic also. He wrote the bio about Intercessor Rees Howells. Mystics sound very convincing

Yes of course they do……….

Norman Grubb, The Central Secret of Union

The great cry of the hearts of the saints of the ages was union. They expressed it in a certain terminology (which is impressive to some of us), describing the way to union as purgation, illumination, and finally union – three phases which to some extent resemble the little children, young men and fathers of John’s first letter. It doesn’t exactly correspond, but it’s somewhere near.

----------------------


The journey to mystical experience, almost universally, involves three stages: purgation, illumination and union so what are they.

Purgation

Purgation is the cleansing stage which begins with self-examination and penitence and leads to a holy life. Sixteenth-century monk, St. John of the Cross, is best known for his description of this stage which he called the “dark night of the soul.” During the dark night the soul of an individual feels abandoned by God, spiritually dry and at the point of despair. John saw this as a way in which God purified the soul by suffering, for only when the soul has been purified is it in a position to experience a rapturous union with God. This purgation involved detachment from the things of the world including material and physical desires; and mortification, the building of new paths to replace the old ones now rejected.

Illumination

At some point the purgation stage bleeds over into the illumination stage in which the mystic begins to experience inner voices and visions. The goal of illumination is to know genuine spiritual truth, but such truth cannot be found in conventional or even rational ways. The true mystic has come to the conclusion that the secret and “deep” things of God cannot be understood rationally. They can only be understood through the experience of illumination. One of the earliest Christian mystics, who is known today as Pseudo-Dionysius, taught that to achieve the ultimate prize of union with God, “The soul must lose the inhibitions of the senses and of reason. God is beyond the intellect, beyond goodness itself, and it is through unknowing, and the discarding of human concepts, that the soul returns to God and is united with the ‘ray of divine darkness.’” The means by which mystics achieved illumination was through fasting, long seasons of specialized prayers known as contemplative prayers and by following various spiritual disciplines of which the best known today were designed by the Catholic monk and founder of the Jesuits, Ignatius Loyola.

Union

The ultimate goal of the mystic is unmediated union with God. This point, at which the soul attains oneness with God, “was the mystical ecstasy in which, for a brief indescribable moment, all barriers seemed to be swept away and new insight supernaturally imparted as one gave himself over fully to the Infinite One.” The ancient mystics would frame this experience in romantic, even sensual terms. John of the Cross “describes the union in terms of spiritual betrothal, where the soul, conceived of as feminine, is married to Christ as the bridegroom. In other places he may say… ‘The centre of the soul is God.’”Bernard of Clairvaux (12th-century), who managed to turn the Song of Solomon into an erotic love story between God and man, described this moment of union as the time when the believer is “kissed with the kisses of His mouth.” Similar depictions are common in mystical literature.

But there is one little problem. If this is how God wanted His followers to connect with Him why didn’t He bother to say so in His Word? If contemplative prayer is the key that will unlock this greater dimension of spirituality why didn’t teach them that when they asked teach us how to pray

The heart and soul of mysticism, any type of mysticism, Christian or otherwise, is the art of meditation or contemplation. Its origin is not the Bible but Eastern and Christian mystics. It should be mentioned that contemplative prayer (often simply called meditation) is the essence of Hinduism and Buddhism and is practiced virtually identically to the Christianized form.

The constant theme of the mystic is that union with God is possible through contemplative prayer, and that union with God is found within us. St. Teresa of Ávila states, “As I could not make reflection with my understanding I contrived to picture Christ within me.” She is quoted as also saying, “Settle yourself in solitude and you will come upon Him in yourself.” Such statements show why the mystics were accused of pantheism. Silence is a noted feature of contemplation. Catherine de Haeck Doherty writes, “All in me is silent and… I am immersed in the silence of God.” Francis de Dales notes, “by means of imagination we confine our mind within the mystery on which we meditate.” Imagination is highly important to the mystics. As Teresa informs us, this is not an endeavor that comes from their understanding. Mystics are hung out in thin air, so to speak, and must make contact with God through imagination rather than through the rational use of their minds. The power of such experience becomes evident as Foster tells us, “We are to live in a perpetual, inward, listening silence so that God is the source of our words and actions.”

So, through contemplative prayer the person is to empty his mind (detach) then fill it with imaginative experiences with Christ (attach) who we will find in the silence of our souls, resulting in God becoming the source of our words and actions.

Edited for spelling

sermonindex Apr 26, 2012

I will attempt to answer your questions Solomon101. I am not familiar with the group recommending the book, but I was received into the Catholic Church this past Easter and it is written by a Catholic Priest, based on two mystics of the Church, St John of the Cross and St Teresa of Avila.

1. Yes I have read the book, but not thoroughly as I would like, there's a lot to take in.

2. A mystic is someone who practices 'mystical' often called contemplative or infused prayer.

3. Christic contemplative prayer is described as a deep love communion with the triune God. It is a knowing and loving we cannot produce but only receive, which is why it is described as infused. It is a gradual process which is barely perceptible at first and develops usually over several years.

There is no "process". It is infused and usually doesn't come without serious growth in virtue and a regular mental (meditative) prayer.

It's quite involved how contemplation develops, it can be a quite painful process at times, which the book goes into. I meditate on the scriptures, but have not experienced contemplation.

I hope that helps :)

M
murrcolr Apr 26, 2012

quote: I meditate on the scriptures

Here is one to meditate on..

Rom3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law

sermonindex Apr 26, 2012

I prefer to read USA Today at IHOP. If I have to start reading Catholic Mystic books at IHOP then I am going to start going to Cracker Barrel for breakfast.

As far as Mike Bickle... who cares?

Krispy

T
TMK Apr 26, 2012

Trekker wrote:

"She had a good heart
(as did Mother Teresa and Princess Diana--two people obviously not saved)"

I am just curious how you can make such a statement. At least add "in my opinion." I for one will be a a tad surpised if I do not meet Mother Teresa in heaven. But then again, perhaps I am "obviously not saved."

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