Sinning to Meet Needs

Quite obviously God does NOT meet all our needs, despite Christian songs to the contrary. So, this got me thinking, when God fails to meet a man's needs, and the man then sins in order to meet that need on his own, why does God still find fault? Why does He still call it sin? I've been turning this question over and over in my mind trying to come to an answer. Does anyone know?

For example....

A woman enters into fornication to meet her need for intimacy, touch, and affection. She expected and asked God to meet it but He didn't. No one else is being hurt by what she and her boyfriend are doing.

A jobless man steals to meet his need for money to pay his bills, support his family. He expected God to meet his need for a job but yet he remained jobless. In this case, someone is probably being hurt by the man's theft, but not as much as the man doing the stealing, since he is much more poor than they.

Another man can't sleep because of terrible pain in his broken body, so he drinks himself into a stupor every night in order to both escape some of the pain, to relax, and to knock himself out if possible. Or perhaps he steals drugs or deals in street drugs in order to achieve this. He begged God to take away his pain, but He didn't. If the man lives alone, no one else is suffering because of his drunkenness.
If he has a family, then someone is being hurt by it. But again, God could have met his need for healing but chose not to.

There are probably many more such examples of valid needs and ways to meet them. The persons may or may not be Christians. If it makes a difference, let's pretend they are.

I've never heard any theology on this question. What say ye?

We need to define "need"... If need is what the "self" wants or wills God makes no promise to meet such needs, the needs he said he will meet are those that are good, as for the woman God may chose not to grant her her wish for intamacy for NOW because he knows it is His perfect plan she will get this maybe 2 years down the road. God also says he will meet our needs, but not always when we desire God to meet them, my own experience is God waits many times to the very last moment, often when i have given up and are completely broken and his answer breaks through as a warm sunray on a cloudy day.

Also we need to consider the men and women in Hebrews 11, that was sawn asunder etc. These men and women where just as full of faith as those that concured kingdoms and brought back people from the dead.

One person may get their needs and wants fulfilled, maybe get a God spuse, many children while others may long for this and God still reject them this "good" since he has a better plan.

Gods way is always the best, wheter it is with a loving family and spouse or alone and in pain and suffering.

When we come to the place where God can have our absolute surrender it will all be good, and we will learn to rejoice even when he denies us a "good" for his perfect best.

hope that makes some sense.

brother christian

more thoughts, especially in our day of age, when we have been so sheltered from Death and suffering, our entire society and life is constructed to shelter and protect us from this, i believe many medicines and doctors wisdom are a gift from the Lord. But i have a suspicion that we by our culture and worldview that has been imprinted in us from birth has made us shun suffering so much.

I remember one brother once said when asked a question, i do not remember the question exactly but the background was there was very little money, or none, and no food. And in the area they lived it was a poor one and many stole so if i dont remember totally wrong he was asked why he could not do this or that to make money, all suggestions implied transgressing Gods commands in one area or another.

and he replied "it is better to die hungry and please God then break Gods heart and live in prosperity" and should not this be our hearts? id rather die then fail Christ? was not Jesus heart in similar manner? how did Jesus trust God? and he died forsaken by God on a cross without ever having broken Gods law even once, how come we expect more then Christ?

These are things worthy of meditation, and deep subjects to speak about. I speak not as one that in any way has arrived but as one seeking to enter in.

Just some more thoughts... from brother C

I say AMEN to all the replies so far.

But I have one question to ask the original poster and this deals with pain.

Do you suppose the pain Jesus experienced upon the cross was any less then what one experiences in life? Did Jesus allow himself to be brought into a stupor to tolerant it?

Something I thought of when I read the OP...

Is it ok to lie?

I may hide Jews in a secret room in order to protect them and then lie to the authorities that I don't know what they are talking about.

Is it righteous to lie to prevent a horrible atrocity?

Pilgrim

Trekker:

17Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

18But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

19But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

These verses are speaking, in context, of the financial or material needs of the church at Philippi. But there is a further application that financial needs are not under a different system than any other need.

However, we must receive from God based on faith. Look up all the times that the scriptures speak of receiving from God being "according to your faith". I believe a consequence of holding an extreme view of sovereignty can lead to believing that God simply did not supply a need. But the relationship is one of faith toward God that opens the door for our receiving what He has supplied.

The situations you described all demonstrate a lack of faith that God will meet the need and a turning to the flesh to supply the need. Each person has sought to meet the need through something other than God.

Granted there are times when God does not meet the need in the way we might like Him to do so. There are things we do not understand. But in the specific examples you gave I see a lack of faith and perseverance and a turning to self to satisfy the need.

We cannot eliminate the element of faith in receiving from God. And, yes, I do believe it makes a difference whether a person is a child of God or not.

As to the question of lying to hide Jews. The commandment says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness." The context of the commandment is not exactly "Thou shalt not speak words that are untrue in any situation." I have personally struggled with this question as well. I see only two options. Believe God to get you out of it or protect the person in question. A similar example might be "thou shalt not commit murder." This is not the same as "don't use deadly force to protect your family."

But are we really asking the wrong question? We enter a realm of doing what the Pharisees did in the Talmud by debating exactly what it means to bear false witness and how we can keep or break the law. We enter into the letter of the law. Should we not rather walk in the spirit led by the Holy Spirit and seek to be led of the Lord as He has written His law in our hearts? I am not trying to argue a point with the last two paragraphs, but rather further the question as I am still not totally settled on the matter myself.

Perhaps it comes down to faith as well?

Trekker,

These are not needs. There is a world of difference between need and desire. Everything you've listed is desire and James addresses this when he wrote that we are lead away by our desires.

Jeff wrote:Different than fornicating to fulfill personal lustful desire, getting drunk to numb pain, etc. if smuggling Bibles into china or Myanmar and asked at airport security if I have illegal Bibles, I may say "no". That fits your example. Far different than committing fornication, getting drunk on wine not filled with the Spirir, stealing from another, etc. far different

___________

I think this is a valid point. When I first read the original post, I thought, the difference between what my flesh may see as "need" and the LORD knows is a need does matter. In my flesh I may not feel the LORD responding to a prayer soon enough so I might react and in doing so I fall into sin. In each of the examples given the person does not seem to wait on the LORD but behave as "lord" of their own life making decisions for self based on what they determine is a "need"

I think the topic is an interesting one but would discuss using the other examples given by some of the other posters :)

God Bless
mj

Twayneb wrote:But are we really asking the wrong question? We enter a realm of doing what the Pharisees did in the Talmud by debating exactly what it means to bear false witness and how we can keep or break the law. We enter into the letter of the law. Should we not rather walk in the spirit led by the Holy Spirit and seek to be led of the Lord as He has written His law in our hearts? I am not trying to argue a point with the last two paragraphs, but rather further the question as I am still not totally settled on the matter myself.

Perhaps it comes down to faith as well?
________________

I think it does come down to faith, at least that is what I am seeing in my own walk. Thank you for sharing the above paragraph it has given me some things to think on as I struggle with some of these questions as well :)

God bless
mj

Jesus was Man. He lived through His teens, twenties and to His thirties. . . His humanity WANTED to be with a woman.

I wonder where we'd be if He'd met His need for female company with a secret Ronda on the side as He preached 'love not this world.'

Just because I have a legitimate need and no legitimate way of fulfilling it, I'm then justified to sin.. . errr. .. not so much.

QUOTE: " God ALWAYS meets our needs as true believers in Christ Jesus. Numerous scriptures to support this fact. One question is, what do WE define as need and what does God know as a need vs a desire? A girl commits fornication because she NEEDS to? Doesn't sound like she's trusting God for His timing in a husband!!"==JEFFMAR

Jeffmar, that is simply NOT true, and i and others are living proof. Also, the examples i provided were at least partially based on actual people and circumstances that i know about. The woman never in all her days did get a husband which she prayed for. I never said she committed fornication because she needed to, i said she committed fornication to meet the need for intimacy, touch and affection (a need many men perhaps don't understand because they are motivated more by lust when they fornicate, whereas women tend to be more motivated by neediness or lonliness, etc...don't argue with me about this fact, i'm not saying there are not exceptions or that lust can't later enter in)

You all KNOW what a NEED is. A need is not a cookie or dessert, it is not a want. A need is water and oxygen.

Another example that comes to mind is a real life Christian US Marine who came back from Iraq/Afghanistan and had such severe PTSD that he could hardly function. I forget his name but it made national headlines a few years ago and made me cry. He was SO traumatized and had such severe flashbacks he had constant nightmares and even paranoid delusions and posed a danger to even his own family. He tried God, he tried prayer, to no avail. He tried psychiatry/witch doctors. Tormented 24/7 he resorted to huffing. His chronic screaming, violent nightmares destroyed his relationship with his wife...she couldnt sleep,feel safe around him, etc. His friends/fellow soldiers did everything the knew to try to comfort, encourage, and save him. Finally, unable to take no more, he committed suicide. This man had a NEED. Don't insanely pretend it was just a "desire" or a "want". You KNOW what a NEED is. And didn't God promise he would never give us more than we could handle?

An attack on God? Certainly not consciously. Whether or not spiritual forces posed the question to my mind i don't know but i need an answer so please try and please do so without sniping at me please. It is a question i am struggling with.

QUOTE: "What if the 3 Hebrew boys in the fire used your logic? They said, "Our God is able to deliver us, BUT EVEN IF HE DOESN'T, we may burn, but we will never bow!" that's the heart of one who truly understands total human depravity, God's amazing grace and will, & the call to "take up your cross, deny yourself, & follow" Christ!!"==JEFFMAR

Now this is a better answer. However, then i'm thinking, 'Yea but those men were suffering for their testimony, for their service to God, so that's a bit different...i'm just talking about every day needs...' However, it did make me think of Job...just trying to think if anything he suffered could have been considered a need....

QUOTE: "Is it ok to lie? I may hide Jews in a secret room in order to protect them and then lie to the authorities that I don't know what they are talking about. Is it righteous to lie to prevent a horrible atrocity?"==PILGRIM777

I don't know. Great question, although nothing to do with this post. I know that Corrie tenBoom's sister refused to lie when the Nazis came to the house demanding to know if there were any Jews hidden there. She openly told the Nazis they were hiding Jews and where they were. Can't recall what happened after that but eventually she and Corrie's father wound up in concentration camp and died of disease and starvation. (Well hey! There would be another unmet need! The need for food in a concentration camp.)

QUOTE: "19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."==TWAYNEB

Thank you for providing this scripture Twayneb. Please explain to me how, in the light of this PROMISE, you would explain the starvation of Corrie tenBoom's Christian sister and father in the concentration camps. I really need to know the answer to this issue. Thank you.

QUOTE: "Isaiah makes it clear. Our prayers are not heard because of what? INIQUITY"==EPHAH

So then what was the sin of Corrie tenBoom's sister and father that God let them die of starvation under the Nazis?
If our prayers are not answered because of our sins, woe to us all!! Who is sinless among you??? I guess we should all leave off praying then....