in regards to drinking alcohol as a christian

G

GodsChild73 Apr 29, 2012

If its ok to drink alcohol as achristian then does that mean i can take and open a bottle of budweiser at church , or spark open a can of beer at the housegroup , If its ok to drink alcohol then as much as its ok to drink soda at church n housegroup then should i not be able to drink alcohol. I dont beleive for one second Jesus Created something that if we took too much of it , it then could cause havoc in our life do you? , And the wine that jesus created was non alcoholic , in order for wine to be alcohol it has to be boiled and have sugar added, The wine jesus sope of was the fruit of the vine. And in the verse where it was said why did you leave the best till last , I know many times befroe i was a christian when i got drunk even if i was handed non alcohilc beer or wine, if i was t drunk i wasnt able to tell the difference . There is no way the wine My Savior created was alcohol. I hear people say in moderation , well in that case it must be ok to smoke pot in moderation or take a hit of heroin in moderation. This being able to drink alcohol and as long as you take it in moderation is a lie from the pit of hell.When i came online to look for the book sipping saints i saw this website and i had to join as i felt the Lord to tell me to join and write this when i saw the somments on christians drinking alcohol.

B

brothagary Apr 29, 2012

be not drunk with wine but be filled with the holy spirit

paul exorted the christan ., wye would he exort a christan not to be drunk on a fruit juce unless the fruit juce called wine had the potenial to get one intoxacated

there was alchol in wine ,and enough if one didnt watch it,to get one drunk wiich was disipatation sin

the called jesus a wine bibeler ,for the fact that he did drink a wine that contained an alchol content

drinking or eating anything in the church meeting was prohibited by paul the apostal ,,he said quote dont you have houses to eat and drink at ,

for the sake of shaming the poor christan who had not

and for the sake of being a stubling block to weaker christan who thought you should only eat herbs and vegatables,,,and others who thought you should not drink wine ,,,,he said dont be a stumbling block ,regarding your liberty ,,,

so according to scripture one is forbided to eat and drink wine in the chruch ,and in the presence of certaint believers

gods child it would be respectfull on your part ,that you intraduce your self befor rebuking the brothers and sisters in sermon index ,noing that paul said to timothey ,rebuke not an elder ,,,there are elders in here who may have a different view

maraijwana ,,,is a verry different drug ,and is never used in moderation ,,,one or two puffs on a joint is gone passed moderation

sister wine can be made from just chrushing the grapes,,,and with out the adding of yeast or sugar ,,in a few days ,to a few weeks ,you will have an alcohol wine

grapes contain all the sugar needed ,and even a natural wild yeast is presesnt on the skins

sister with all respect ,,,you have not read the scripture properly before posting ,,the lord did not ask you to post this about wine with out knowing the scriptures ,nor how wine is made ,,,,,,,god bless you for you zeal

blessings

ps god created food ,,and if you eat to much it is as bad as geting drunk ,,its all glutony to much food or grap juce ,,or wine ,, to much sport , to much fishing ,to much shoping ect ,,,,,its all sinfull

sermonindex Apr 29, 2012

I don't believe for one second Jesus created something that if we took too much of it , it then could cause havoc in our life do you?

Ah, moderation indeed.

Well Brother, have you considered obesity? God created food for us to enjoy, but look at us today. We are fat, bloated, health problems galore. People are having heart attacks and stroke, diabetes is on the rise and all this due to poor eating habits.

"I don't believe for one second Jesus created something that if we took too much of it that it would cause havoc in our life".

Moderation is key.

And the water that Jesus turned into wine was wine. The point of the story was an allegory, He was showing that the New Wine of His Spirit (the holy Spirit) will be poured out to all men, to the whomsoever will. Jesus went further in saying that you don't put new wine into old wineskins. Why? because the old wineskins are not strong enough to hold the pressure. We as wineskins need to have a new spirit within us in order to hold the power of the Holy Spirit when He comes in, else it will kill us.

What you'll need to do is come to grips with what is written and what your not able to receive. If your not able to receive that Jesus turned water into wine, leave the matter alone and walk away from it until understanding does come.

Jesus is not encouraging men to drink wine, your missing the point of the story. However if men drink wine it is not a sin if he give thanks in the sincerity of his mind to do so. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Some can partake having faith to do so, others cannot and we must respect those that cannot. Obviously you cannot and we as the body of Christ must respect that. Just for the record, I do not drink myself. However, I know believers that do and they do it respectfully and discreetly not wishing to offend any weak brothers mind.

M

mguldner Apr 29, 2012

First welcome to the forum I see its your first post here. If you haven't already you should check out the rules and guidelines of the forum. :)

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13

Second, did you know that everything in this world without restraint can kill you? If you drank too much water you could actually die? Or if you only ate carrots and ate them excessively they would kill you?

Did you know that many use marijuana to ease pain rather than use heavy pain killers? That of course is in moderation.

That many people drink a shot of vodka or a glass of wine to help with tension and heart problems?

Do I personally drink? No, but its not forbidden by Christ Jesus or Paul infact Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine to help his stomach problems.

M

mguldner Apr 29, 2012

I would like to add this topic hasn't been brought up for a while now. Perhaps what you have written is a copy paste job because saying this is an indication you haven't really studied or saw a post that sincerely concerned you enough to join. Many people join to push an agenda which is something heavily frowned upon. I do hope you are serious about fellowshiping and learning from the resources and mature brothers and sisters of this site.

L

learjet Apr 29, 2012

And the wine that jesus created was non alcoholic , in order for wine to be alcohol it has to be boiled and have sugar added, The wine jesus sope of was the fruit of the vine. And in the verse where it was said why did you leave the best till last , I know many times befroe i was a christian when i got drunk even if i was handed non alcohilc beer or wine, if i was t drunk i wasnt able to tell the difference .

Welcome to the forum!

Regarding your comments above, if I'm drinking Welches grape juice, even the most ignorant sinner would not accuse me of being a 'wine bibber' and they did Jesus. While people would like to draw confusion into this verse, there is none.

Again, welcome to the forum!!

sermonindex Apr 29, 2012

Alcohol was stumbled upon by Noah. Yet he is called a "preacher of righteousness" in the Scripture.

The wedding feast was a real wedding feast and the wine was real wine. How else could Jesus have been accused of being a 'drunkard'.

I have heard a number of pastors, in my youth. preaching that Jesus did not manifest wine from water so as to be able to get drunk on it. This is said, no doubt to protect the flock. However, it does require one to change the meaning of Scripture to press it on the hearer.

The meaning of drunkenness in the Scriptures is 'dissipation'. Which means to pour out the truth to no good effect. Or to make ineffectual the truth which is already possessed. Alcohol is nothing of itself unless you become drunk on it. Whether you or I drink or not drink, is a matter for ourselves. It is a matter of judgement. It may even be a matter of obedience to God's calling in our lives.

I am sorry that you received an instruction regarding elders. There may be many elders on sermonindex, but the ground of their authority is local. However, their is authority over sermonindex which cannot be ignored. This is the way it is. I don't think that those who have authority here are really concerned about a new poster 'instructing' others over such a small matter. You said that the Lord put it on your heart to join and to post. Well that's the way it is then. Who can argue with that. What you get out of obedience may not be agreement, but another more perfect understanding. Only you can tell.

Noah wasn't seeking to make alcohol, but he did by chance. I imagine that he didn't share the recipe though. In his day there were enough problems without adding drink!

Be encouraged and you will no doubt give and receive a blessing from above.

Andrew

Re-Posted with a better attitude.

T

Trekker Apr 29, 2012

Paul instructed Christians to use a little wine for the sake of their stomachs and often infirmities. Where did you get the info that the wine Jesus or Jews made contained no alcohol? I have heard that before but have never heard tell where it came from.

Personally i don't drink any alcohol whatsoever, and neither did my godly Christian grandmother. But i do not judge Christians who have a glass of wine at dinner or a glass of beer now and then, as long as they don't get drunk.

T

Trekker Apr 29, 2012

QUOTE: "Alcohol was stumbled upon by Noah. Yet he is called a "preacher of righteousness" in the Scripture.
The wedding feast was a real wedding feast and the wine was real wine. How else could Jesus have been accused of being a 'drunkard'."==amrkelly

AMRKELLY, i know what you meant in your quote but just to clarify just in case anyone else might not know:
1. Jesus was never drunk
2. People can drink wine at a wedding without getting drunk, if they limit themselves; just because Jesus made wine for the wedding does not mean He was giving an ok to drunkenness.
3.Noah got drunk by accident and that was before the Law, just as having multiple wives was overlooked before the Law of Moses was written.

M

mguldner Apr 29, 2012

Not to mention the typical Jewish wedding feast lasted 7 days and the entire community was generally invited. The family ran out of wine and this would have been a huge disgrace to the family so Christ spared the young couple of social embarassment by providing more than enough wine for the rest of the festival while at the same time showing us the beauty of the New Wine to come.

sermonindex Apr 29, 2012

John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, [then they serve] that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

Anyone who has ever drunk an alcoholic beverage and has had a few will immediately refuse a drink that doesn't have alcohol in it unless he needs to sober up. But when your at a party like these guys were, it's every man's intention to have fun and more the merrier. If Jesus were to serve "Grape Juice", He would have insulted His guests.

This is a wonderful story, it's too bad we only highlight this one area about wine, and I know why. It's because there is a lot of people that have been delivered from alcohol and drugs and to see Jesus make wine through a miracle is hard to comprehend. I sympathize with you all. Therefore it's better to leave this section alone until your strong enough to understand it, and in time you will be strong to understand it.

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. [one firkin is 210 gallons according to wiki]

I like this. Here Jesus being our High Priest is performing the law right at His own party, 'after the manner of the purifying of the Jews.'

The symbolism of the new wine that Jesus is offering here is to purify and cleanse, this new stuff is Himself, saving the best for the last which is poured out for you and I.

L

Lysa Apr 29, 2012

There is freedom but as Paul said, “Yes, I have freedom to what I will but God forbid that I should make another stumble taking part in my freedom” (paraphrased by me).

We need to know that my freedom might be someone else’s trigger especially if they see me (a Christian) taking part in this said freedom. There’s a higher calling my friends, so what’s it going to be: your precious freedom or being a servant?

God bless,
Lisa

sermonindex Apr 29, 2012

Lysa said:

" There’s a higher calling my friends, so what’s it going to be: your precious freedom or being a servant?"

This is truly the word of the Lord that you shared Lysa. Are we our brothers keeper?

In Christ -Jim

sermonindex Apr 29, 2012

AMRKELLY, i know what you meant in your quote but just to clarify just in case anyone else might not know.

Thanks for that Trekker. I used 'stumbled' rhetorically not figuratively.

I have given up this 'freedom' many years ago. Just to agree what Lisa said. I once preached in a city for five years and found that I came across many men drunk. They were all in a truly sad condition, almost destroyed by drink. One particular man became my focus for a while. I would passionately tell him that drink was destroying his life. He listened. I was blessed. A few weeks later I was having lunch in a Public House and decided to have a small glass of beer with my lunch. This poor man came into the Public House as well and seeing my beer was cut to his core with shock. I too was cut to the core. I never saw him again. For me there is no more liberty on this issue. Others have to judge according to there own effects.

sermonindex Apr 29, 2012

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."

"For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

"It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

"Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth."...........................

Wine and alcohol can be very addicting, and some people are terribly susceptible to becoming addicts; the American Indian culture for instance, never built up any resistance to alcohol in the cultural gene pool. Many die of alcohol related disease and incidents. I come from a long line of addicts from my Scotch/Irish/Welsh/German bloodline. We like our beer.

" The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."

It is Biblically acceptable, but not unto drunkenness on a personal level, nor is it acceptable if it stumbles your brother or sister in any way; So, I think it is fine, but should generally be done in private, and guarded, lest a weaker one, or even a recovering alcoholic should fall by your example. Currently, I am abstaining for spiritual reasons.

Also, Paul's admonition to Timothy, to use wine as a medication "for his often sicknesses" is very clear. It is not forbidden; Stumbling and sin are.

L

lylewise Apr 29, 2012

This topic always seems to get a fair amount of consideration. The concern stems from the supposed stumbling block cast before the young (new) believer. Though it is an impossible possition to defend dissipation and who fearing the Lord would ever trym should we not be more concerned with the greater issue that is allowing for the building of a foundation upon righteousness that cmes by way of restriction of food or drink? By not dispelling this error are we not party to affirming a righteousness that does not originate in Christ? If my righteousness comes by my restraint of drinking alcohol, then may I abstain all the more from soft drinks and tea so that I can gain an even greater standing before the Lord that comes by abstention. No Christian would ever defend the placing of a stumbling block before a young one whose love for the Lord would result in their conscience being grieved by a brother or sister who seemingly places another god before Christ.

Maybe their is still a deeper issue that stems from dissipation? Maybe gluttony might serve as an example as to how this action would cause a weaker brother or sister to stumble? In the knowledge given the believer by virtue of scripture, we know that if God feeds the smallest and most insignificant of animals, will He will supply for one made in His image? What gluttony brings to light in the life of a believer is the questioning of God's provision. Though God has made provision now, can He be trusted to supply in the future? The testing might not be more than one meal away. So the testimony of one who stuffs himself beyond what is a healthy intake is exposing a lack of Faith for the Lord to do as He has promised. Mathew 6:26

One has no choice but to make the wine Christ partook of or converted from water into a fresh unfermented juice or they will be guilty of making Him a breaker of the very law which they wish to uphold. This would make Christ not only a wine bibber, but a fermentor, and supplier as well. If we take this catagory and apply a similar reasoning to dissipation, we should find ourselves at the same root which stems from a lack of faith of God's provision. Not that the wine will run out so one must drink all that they can while it last (that once again is an issue of gluttony) but rather, once one loses control of themselves, can they then testify that the Lord is in control of their life? How do they testify that their life is His and no longer their own if they recklously give it to the god of this world? That says," I don't trust that God is in control, and since I cannot trust that God is in control, I must make my temporary escape.

How vast the number of liberties that can be layed before the new believers as stumbling blocks. I don't believe we have yet begun to consider the possibilities.

L

Lysa Apr 30, 2012

Jim wrote:
Are we our brothers keeper?

To a certain extent, I believe we are brother. We cannot dictate and lord over people so they always make the right decisions but when it comes down to laying aside our "flesh" that our freedoms do not trigger their bondage's, then yes. Does that make sense, I'm writing this on the fly.

Most of us (Christians), living in America has given us (me included) an air of entitlement (i.e. my rights, my freedoms) and I'm learning that God wants us to lay down our rights and trust Him. Am I perfect at this? LOL Far from it but I see which direction I'm headed!

God bless you,
Lisa

M

MrBillPro Apr 30, 2012

GodsChild73 If its ok to drink alcohol as a christian that does that mean i can take and open a bottle of Budweiser at church

Sometimes I have to open a can of Bud to get through some of the stuff I see on TBN. Last night after 5 minutes of Kim Clement, I needed a shot of Tequila. :)

M

mguldner Apr 30, 2012

Sometimes I have to open a can of Bud to get through some of the stuff I see on TBN. Last night after 5 minutes of Kim Clement, I needed a shot of Tequila. :)

There is a power button you know? I don't watch TBN anymore can't trust them after that healing rag thing I bought didn't work... lol jk ;)

M

MrBillPro Apr 30, 2012

There is a power button you know? I don't watch TBN anymore can't trust them after that healing rag thing I bought didn't work... lol jk ;)

I know, I guess some of us just can't get enough punishment. :)