Women in the ministry

I'm sure this has been addressed many times on here... but I am interested in hearing what people think about women in the ministry. Any kind of ministry, but specifically church leadership, or teaching, preaching... etc.I'll sit back and eat popcorn for awhile before jumping in. I have a lot of popcorn...Ready... set... go...Krispy

I think it's great, I think anybody, bathed in the Blood, born-again, baptized in the Spirit coming into ministry is great. The laborers are few. now whats next?

I don't think women should be in overall church leadership. I think there is a proper order of things which is God's order. I think women have roles in the church but not necessarily in leadership but that does not mean they are less important.

I think it's great, I think anybody, bathed in the Blood, born-again, baptized in the Spirit coming into ministry is great. The laborers are few. Even if the position they take is in disobedience to scripture? Surely you're not saying "the ends justifies the means", are you?Krispy

I think it's great, I think anybody, bathed in the Blood, born-again, baptized in the Spirit coming into ministry is great. The laborers are few. Let me pose a question for everyone to think about...I believe people get saved at Benny Hinn "crusades". Does this mean we ignore that Benny Hinn is a gross heretic, and that the Bible exhorts us to mark and avoid false teachers? In other words... do we condone Benny Hinn because people get saved at his "crusades"?I believe TBN does some good in the world... but do we ignore that the Bible exhorts us to mark and avoid false teachers? In other words... do we condone TBN because they do good in the world?I believe Mother Teresa did a tremendous amount of good. But do we ignore the fact that she held to a false religion? If she was relying on the Catholic Church for her salvation (which her writings show that she was), then she unfortunately died in her sins, and was not saved.I believe women pastors can do some good in the world, and may even preach salvation, resulting in people getting saved. But do we throw out the passages in the Bible that speak against a woman teaching and/or having authority over a man?Anyone have any thoughts? I'm keeping my thoughts to myself right now... though I'm sure anyone can tell where I stand. I'm not setting anyone up... just trying to initiate an interesting conversation.Krispy

I check that out... thanx. But I'm also kinda expanding the discussion a little bit. Thats why I brought up Benny Hinn, TBN and Mother Teresa.

“…Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations, wherever you come, that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them. Then you will come to walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in everyone." -from The Journal of George Fox, 1656As George Fox points out, there is that of God in every person. Why would you want to exclude half of God from speaking and preaching the word? We all now recognize that the prejudice held by Paul and other biblical writers against women was wrong and came from their ignorance and their culture. We know better now. Just like we know that disease comes not from demons, but from biological causes.Only Jesus was infallible and perfect. Paul was a fallible sinner, like you and I.Bubbaguy

As George Fox points out, there is that of God in every person. Why would you want to exclude half of God from speaking and preaching the word? We all now recognize that the prejudice held by Paul and other biblical writers against women was wrong and came from their ignorance and their culture. We know better now. Just like we know that disease comes not from demons, but from biological causes.So you're saying that what Paul wrote was his own words, and not the infallible inspired Word of God? What do we do then with Paul's writing? Can we trust any of it?When the Bible said that Jesus casted out demons, are you saying He didnt cast out demons even though He claimed He did? (by the way, Jesus did not claim that every disease He healed was caused by demons) If they werent demons, are you saying that Jesus lied? Are you saying that Jesus sinned?Just asking you to clarify because thats the impression I'm getting...This reminds me of a story Chuck Smith tells of when he was asked to do a radio debate with a University Professor in California. The professor claimed that there were two Isaiahs who wrote that prophetic book. Chuck Smith challenged him, and pointed out where Jesus quoted Isaiah in a way that prooves there was only one writer of Isaiah. The professor countered with "Jesus didn't have the benefit of all of the research we have today." Krispy

By the way, Paul refers to several women who were workers in the ministry. I think you need to understand the difference between preaching the Gospel, and teaching the scriptures and/or being in a church leadership position.Declaring the Gospel to a lost world is not the same thing.Krispy

Surely you're not saying "the ends justifies the means", are you?wasnt saying that.I'll tell you this though, and I pray yur listening with spiritual ears, instead of the spirit that gives birth to foolish controversies, wastes of time, designed to stir up the saints.Listen.....religion kills.let me say that again, in fact, let me shout that RELIGION KILLS!!!I'm gonna lay a couple bits of Holy, inerrant, infallible Scripture on you, Paul's own words as led by the Holy Spirit,"But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." (Phil 1:18)here's some more words for ya from Paul under the Inspiration of God , "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless".(Titus 3:9)How about some Joel?"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.Even on my servants, both men and women,I will pour out My Spirit in those days".(Joel 2:28-29)So if the Holy Ghost rings the bell of that girl over there and she has to prophesy coz she got a "fire shut up in her bones", a bunch of religious dudes are gonna say....'can't do that woman'.He'll pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh.The church in america is a joke, coz the devil has got most saints either engaged in foolish arguments or parked in front of their TV's filling their hearts with the filth of the empire. The other day I went to the home of one of the board members, a great guy, a good friend, a godly man, and I went there just to be sociable, it was a super bowl party, though I loathe EVERYTHING that the superbowl stands for, and loath everything that flows along WITH the super bowl, the commercials, the worship of flesh, fame and money, but I went to stay in the fellowship of the believers, and there in the center of the family room is a HUGE , this thing had to be five feet long and three feet tall, it just gave me a start, coz this brother is a pillar of the church, and I daresay lives a god-fearing life, and his kids are good kids, but where do we begin to seperate from the world, seperate from the empire, as I saw some stuff from the game and all the pagentry, etc etc, it suddenly occured to me that WE are the new roman empire, and these are our gladiators, and WE even have a panoply of the gods, as the greeks and the romans did, we worship the "stars" as the greco-romans worshiped on zeus, and aphrodite and diana and mars, etc etc ......(Arnold as Zeus, and Julia Roberts as Aphrodite?) We also worship on the money, its sickening........and listen to me, God is gonna bring such a judgement on this land, it will give new meaning to the words, "I shall make their ears tingle".You have this empire indulging in an unrighteous unjust war, masquarading as the "war on terror", when in reality its a resource grab to fund their true god, and that god's name is 'dollar', and then you have the people justifying their murder of babies under the moniker of "choice", and men marrying men, and women marrying women, while the people glut themselves on entertainment,so they fall asleep to the sin of the land. Even if it is "wholesome" entertainment, as leonard Ravenhill said, entertainment is the devils counterfeit for joy.Don't even IMPLY that I am in disodience to the Master of the Universe, I rest in obedience to His covenant, and as my father David, I'm going after Goliath's.

Wow... where to begin?I'll tell you this though, and I pray yur listening with spiritual ears, instead of the spirit that gives birth to foolish controversies, wastes of time, designed to stir up the saints.Paul thought doctrine was very important... and wasnt a wastes of time. He exhorted Timothy to earnestly contend for the faith, and to expose false teachers. Using your reasoning that would give "birth to foolish controversies, wastes of time, designed to stir up the saints."RELIGION KILLS!!!We agree on that point. But you've confused the empty, hollow religion of the religious leaders in Jesus day with Christians who passionately love the Word of God... EVERY Word of God."But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." (Phil 1:18)Interesting that you use that verse from a corrupted version of the Bible. Paul never said "But what does it matter?". He said "What then?" which means something completely different. Here's the real translation of that verse:"What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." Now... I said clearly in a previous post that many people do much good for Christ while doing it in disobedience. So I'm not sure why you're contentious about that."But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless".(Titus 3:9)This is hardly a foolish controversy. Only you think it is, therefore it must be. This isnt genealogies. And this certainly is not an argument about the Mosaic Law... which is what Paul meant.So if the Holy Ghost rings the bell of that girl over there and she has to prophesy coz she got a "fire shut up in her bones", a bunch of religious dudes are gonna say....'can't do that woman'.When did I say a girl couldnt prophesy? We're talking about teaching men, and being a leader in the church. I dont know what you're talking about now.He'll pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh.Amen... and He has, and He does. We agree.The other day I went to the home of one of the board members, a great guy, a good friend, a godly man, and I went there just to be sociable, it was a super bowl party, though I loathe EVERYTHING that the superbowl stands for, and loath everything that flows along WITH the super bowl, the commercials, the worship of flesh, fame and money, but I went to stay in the fellowship of the believers, and there in the center of the family room is a HUGE , this thing had to be five feet long and three feet tall, it just gave me a start, coz this brother is a pillar of the church, and I daresay lives a god-fearing life, and his kids are good kids, but where do we begin to seperate from the world, seperate from the empire, as I saw some stuff from the game and all the pagentry, etc etc, it suddenly occured to me that WE are the new roman empire, and these are our gladiators, and WE even have a panoply of the gods, as the greeks and the romans did, we worship the "stars" as the greco-romans worshiped on zeus, and aphrodite and diana and mars, etc etc ......(Arnold as Zeus, and Julia Roberts as Aphrodite?) We also worship on the money, its sickening........and listen to me, God is gonna bring such a judgement on this land, it will give new meaning to the words, "I shall make their ears tingle".And you're accusing me of being judgemental?First off... stop judging your brother. What business of yours if he has a huge TV? You're judging him. I'm not saying he's right... I'm saying you're doing to him what your accusing me of doing to you. That makes you a hypocrite.Secondly... we agree that TV is trash and pro-ball players get paid too much.Thirdly... I coach football. I have a positive influence on many many kids by doing so. I teach them teamwork, work ethics, sportsmanship, etc etc. They probably learn more about good morals and ethics and being a man on the football field then in most churches. You have this empire indulging in an unrighteous unjust war, masquarading as the "war on terror", when in reality its a resource grab to fund their true god, and that god's name is 'dollar', and then you have the people justifying their murder of babies under the moniker of "choice", and men marrying men, and women marrying women, while the people glut themselves on entertainment,so they fall asleep to the sin of the land. Even if it is "wholesome" entertainment, as leonard Ravenhill said, entertainment is the devils counterfeit for joy.I was a Marine in the early 1990's. I've been to Saudi and Iraq. I have a cousin who died over there back in the summer. I resptecfully ask you to shut up about things which you know nothing about. You can disagree w/the politics of it, and be as ignorant as you please... but when you speak you would do well to be informed before opening your mouth.Don't even IMPLY that I am in disodience to the Master of the Universe, I rest in obedience to His covenant, and as my father David, I'm going after Goliath's.I dont know anything about you... so how can I imply anything about you, or your obedience to God?Krispy

"When the Bible said that Jesus casted out demons, are you saying He didnt cast out demons even though He claimed He did? (by the way, Jesus did not claim that every disease He healed was caused by demons) If they werent demons, are you saying that Jesus lied? Are you saying that Jesus sinned?" It would have made no sense whatsoever for Jesus to refer to viruses or bacteria as causing diseases in those days. He had to speak to the condition of the people at that time. Thus, even though He understood the real underlying cause of disease and addressed it, there would have been no point in explaining it in terms other than "demon" because no one would have been able to make any sense of it.Whether Jesus miraculously cured a demon or a disease makes no difference. Still a miracle.Ron, so are you telling me that Paul shifted back in forth in his life from a state of perfection to a state of fallenness based upon whether he was writing scripture or not? Soon as the writing instrument went down, sin came up? Zigging and zagging back and forth between perfection and sinfulness. The only thing perfect is God. If you hold up anything else as perfect, it is akin to idol worship.Bubbaguy

It would have made no sense whatsoever for Jesus to refer to viruses or bacteria as causing diseases in those days. He had to speak to the condition of the people at that time. Thus, even though He understood the real underlying cause of disease and addressed it, there would have been no point in explaining it in terms other than "demon" because no one would have been able to make any sense of it.Ohhh... I understand now. Jesus lied. Thanx for clearing that up for me.Krispy

First off... stop judging your brother. What business of yours if he has a huge TV?I wasnt judging him, I was making an observation, from the tenor of your response you WANT me to be judging him, this is a brother I love, I respect, I pray with and that was my observation. He can have a big screen TV any day of the week, but I can promise you this..the Fire will never fall there, too much distraction.and you know, its just more pharaisaism's, when you said "corrupted" version of the Bible, I have every single English translation of the Bible in my library, and have read them all. I carry NIV's because I deal with a lot of homeless, and a lot of post modern, post christian types who would not understand the KJV. Thats not fleshly assumption, that Spirit led wisdom.....sorry. You KJV only types make me laugh, if you wanna get ole skool, start toting around Hebrew only scrolls......oh whats that? can't understand the Hebrew?as far as the whole war thing goes, you aint the only one to serve, its just that now I serve SOMEONE much much higher than the flag, and He is the Father of Truth, and He WILL NOT allow Himself to be wrapped up in the flag. You can wrap up your god in the stars and bars, beat your chest and tell the brethern to shut up, you wont be the first, wont be the last.

The only thing perfect is God. If you hold up anything else as perfect, it is akin to idol worship.God has a pretty high opinion of His Word... Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for Thou hast magnified Thy Word above all Thy Name.First you've convinced me that Jesus is a liar. Now you've convinced me that God is an idol worshipper.:-? I've been deceived all these years.Krispy

Arguing w/you much further would be a "waste of time".but I can promise you this..the Fire will never fall there, too much distraction.You're still judging him, even when you deny that you are.Thats not fleshly assumption, that Spirit led wisdom.....sorry.Thats debatable.You KJV only types make me laugh, if you wanna get ole skool, start toting around Hebrew only scrolls......oh whats that? can't understand the Hebrew?You're showing complete and utter ignorance of the whole Bible version debate. How foolish.By the way... you're judging again. How do you know I dont know Hebrew? You dont.as far as the whole war thing goes, you aint the only one to serve, its just that now I serve SOMEONE much much higher than the flag, and He is the Father of Truth, and He WILL NOT allow Himself to be wrapped up in the flag. You can wrap up your god in the stars and bars, beat your chest and tell the brethern to shut up, you wont be the first, wont be the last.It's people like me who give you the right to say whatever you want. You're welcome.From this point further I'll be ignoring your posts. You're completely off the point, and quite frankly... you're proving my point better than I ever could. Thank you for that.Krispy