Help with reformed vs charismatic/pentcostal

I've laid off writing this for some time, trying again and again to put the right words in place... And I've never found it.

Praise God I found this site, and the members of the forum seem largely very sound, one mind, and quite biblical.

God 'refreshed' me some time ago, I experienced a period of weeping for days - this has now transformed my prayer life, my worship and much more... I read quite a lot and came to a natural conclusion that I have become quite 'calvinist' if I were to apply such a label.

As such, I attend a church, formerly Charismatic, now moving toward Pentecostal - we have a new pastor who comes from an AOG background. It's great we have new leadership, but looking at the plans (we're going to be getting Ken Gott speaking for instance - something about that makes me nervous), I'm worried that we're just looking for the signs and wonders, and not fixing ourselves on Christ to let Him do the work.

It's been a dark week for me - our service last Sunday I was stone-cold bored, as we sung three songs in an hour-long worship service, with long periods of 'free-worship', which normally involved singing in tongues. All I wanted to do was sing songs of praise to our saviour.

What do I do? Trying to talk to people has led to arguments (with both my wife, and my friends), close Christian brothers and sisters seem distant now, and yet my concern for the lost, even for those in our fellowship increases. I am at the point I have to tread on eggshells when discussing theological issues with my wife, and I know that's not healthy to start with.

I'm frustrated that it's all about 'Joy, peace and happiness' (not that I have a problem with those) and not about getting right before a Holy God. I saw a man preaching in the street in our town today, that moved me more than last Sunday's sermon. We have a prayer meeting tonight, and I feel a nausea about it - like they're going to do something that will involve a 'fire tunnel' or we'll end up chanting or laughing or something else - none of which seem biblical to me in my regenerated state.

Really, what do I do? The more I seek God, read His word, the more conflicted I become... I feel an intense pressure about what I see as false teaching, and an absolute uncertainty about how to deal with it. I just want to cry out and say 'Enough!', or to weep for the state of the Church...

I would really appreciate prayers and sound biblical wisdom in what to do. If this hasn't made sense, ask and I'll try to explain it better. I just needed to get the ball rolling. If I've posted in the wrong area, I apologise and will move the thread elsewhere.

Richrock where in the UK do you live?

Dear friend,
I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading you to recognize a spiritual deception. I have had repeated experiences in which I have encountered supposed "manifestations". After I sought counsel from the Lord, it was shown to me what I was seeing was a counterfeit of the truth. Religious experiences from God draw people to a deeper appreciation of Biblical truth, repentance from sin, a comitted walk of holiness and true fellowship with God. When people seek sensational experiences instead of a closer walk with a holy God, they open themselves up to decieving spirits.
Regarding the response of your wife, I would recommend intense intercessional prayer for her in private for a period of time if bringing up the subject creates strife. Too often we try to do God's work in the flesh without waiting for the cue from Him. Be prepared for a battle in the spiritual realm. Will pray,
David

P.S. By the way, I am neither "reformed" or Pentecostal. I like to read the Bible without the "opinions"

@murrcolr I'm based in South Wales, UK. Bit far from you up there in Scotland!

@appolus - Praise God you know something of the situation. It comforts me greatly to know that I am not alone in this.

I thank you everyone, for the replies thus far. I have attended this fellowship for all of my Christian life (17 years), you could say I knew no different. Saying that, Christianity was a little different then :-)

No, I'm not a chaser after signs - but I've never stopped anyone from doing so until recently. Once I mentioned that these were foolish I got such violence in the response... not good.

I used the label 'Reformed' loosely - it's merely a more accurate label to describe the things God has revealed in me. I would agree, I do not want to lean on any one theology, but to lean on the sound doctrine that is revealed through the word, through prayer and seeking God alone.

I just continue to dive into His word, praying for God to reveal and expose things around me, but inside I feel the battle is so hard. My only outlet thus far are these posts I've written about it. This has been in me for some months now, and is not going away.

Thanks beekpr for your advice - I pray for her daily in this, and have learned hard lessons from trying to sort this out too much too quickly :-( .

Finally - I'm not advocating any particular movement or theology, nor am I going to name names/specific places. I don't want to falsely accuse, slander or knock someone down specifically. I just want peace in my heart about what to do.

Hello Rich,

Your post is a startling realization that I think many in the body of Christ are coming to see, some have for many years. I won't say I have awesome advice as I'm a new Christian, born again of His Holy Spirit 16 December, 2010! Praise God! He has been leading me into a whole lot in the past year and a half (almost). One of the things are these things you spoke of that are not biblical and we know who is behind it.

It's been a dark week for me

As others have mentioned, He is always with us. He is so Faithful! I have been through many days of darkness, sometimes I feel I may wither away because I feel the life of His Spirit, so it seems, far away but He always restores me. He will always do the same for you too! To be honest, I spend a lot of time alone with the Lord when I can. When I go to a building, where believers meet I usually feel so gaurded! I don't like that but I'm very aware of the time I live in and must also protect my family from anything the enemy might try to sale me.

God will bless you brother! And I'm so happy to hear the kind and thoughtful responses posted above. It truely brought a tear to my eye to see love and concern.

Bryan

Good response Krispy.

I'll be praying for you richrock. There is a famine in the lands brother; a famine of the Word of God. Man cannot live by emotionalism alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.

Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

My goodness, it is my view that charismatics and pentecostals are brothers of each other. 3 songs in one hour is what I would call a mantra. Did they constantly sing a stanza over and over again? It causes the mind to go numb. Speaking in tongues such as you describe would cause me to leave simply because it sounds so spiritual but is it really? I believe this type of practice has been prostituted. You will not find the practice of tongues, hardly, outside of the penetecostal/charismatic church. Why is that? Is it because they have the 'power'? NO, it is my opinion that they work it up as a circus and expect others to follow their lead and be 'spiritual'.

Somehow you need to speak to your family tenderly about yoru concerns. When you get a sharp reaction of arguments over it this tells you something is very wrong! I had this happen to me when confronting a friend over people like Kenneth Copeland. If I couldn't say anything nice at all then don't say anything- I need to speak positive things is what she told me. Spiritual discernment lacks in these crowds and when an argument ensues it is because spiritual discernment has been thrown out and they don't want to acknowledge that they are not discerning. It is a very deceptive thing to get caught up in the pentecostal atmosphere, in my opinion..

"Spiritual discernment lacks in these crowds and when an argument ensues it is because spiritual discernment has been thrown out and they don't want to acknowledge that they are not discerning."

Well said DEADn.

hi, the greatest sign for the tongue talking community is the facts of the evangelization of the earth and who is doing it and the results there of . in china and cuba and south and central america and africa it is millions of converts to christianity and in moslem countries ; more people are converting to charismatic christianity than to allah.jimp

I think a lot of people have anwsered your questions already, but let me say this:

In my country (The Netherlands/Holland) it's the same thing as in the UK. For some years I have been strugling and in the end I couldn't stay any longer and left the Evangelical church (that is like pentacostal). There are - as far as I know - no biblical church near to us. So when we left, a couple of month after that we started a church with 5 people. At this moment we have 9 adults and 2 children. God is doing a work in our midst even though there is a lot of attack on us because we speak about repentance, faith, born again, etc.

But I just wanted to let you know that there are a lot of people (brothers & sisters) in the same situation as you.

A question, you said: "I am at the point I have to tread on eggshells when discussing theological issues with my wife, and I know that's not healthy to start with."
You mean to say that you and your wife aren't in unity on theological grounds? Then maybe that's your most important point to pray for!

And for the rest: Pray, Read scripture, Obey and trust Christ!

That God may bless you,
Wijnand

Many thanks all for your responses. This is the sort of response I would expect from a site such as this.

@wijnand - yes, we are now at almost opposite ends of the spectrum, and we have talked some about it, we agree on the core issues of salvation, repentance, faith etc. She comes from a heavy 'bible-thumping' family, and has difficulty approaching the word. I pray she would continue reading (she does is stages) and that God would change her in time. It's tricky, and I have to trust God absolutely that He would reveal His truth in His time...

Our worship consists of periods where we can reflect, pray or sing out in 'free worship'. I was bored, I wanted to sing declarations of praise but the atmosphere would have made me sound so ridiculous...

All that has happened to me convinces me that there is no end-time revival, but we are in a stage of falling away, like we are slipping gradually towards a precipice.

I know this all sounds negative - but it's not. I'm glad that God has revealed it to me, and I am glad that He has given me a passion to love Him and be utterly submitted to Him, whatever the cost, obeying His word as best as He allows me to.

Thank you all.

All that has happened to me convinces me that there is no end-time revival, but we are in a stage of falling away, like we are slipping gradually towards a precipice

Interesting thoughts. I agree with the revival part of it. Too many times I have heard of 'revival is coming' and then I see what it supposed to be revival fall on its face. I can't believe that God would cause something to happen that would fall on its face. I also think we tend to look for what is happening in America as the basis for what God is doing and I think that is short sighted as well.

God bless you brother Richrock and welcome to SI !

I can understand what you are going through. I have been there and many of us, too.

Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.

Where are you based?

The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are symbols representing the choice between the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red).

Welcome to the red pill brother!

Brother frank gave you some great wisdom, there are a bunch of us, don't get discouraged (bro tom, jimdied2sin and many sisters as well).

Much love!

hi, for forty years i ministered as a reformed charismatic and do not understand why there is so much divisivness in the church about a lot of stupid things. we are to have gifts following our ministry nd ,like paul , not just with words but proof. in mexico there was a man who started over ten churches in his lifetime ,each over 2000 members without any help from the us that you would know about him,all self supported and with mexican pastors. he also trained many other men in his bible col. but you have never heard of him.this is happening around the world . you are basing your biased opinions on what you know which is understandable.God is still moving on the earth in a mighty way. in my city we fellowshipwith a group of churches, some are baptist,some charismatic ,some reformed with the idea to win baton rouge to Jesus Christ. i recommend all of these churches and tell people to go where God leads you.it is ultimately up to you to make your church a success or failure in your life.jimp

hi, the greatest sign for the tongue talking community is the facts of the evangelization of the earth and who is doing it and the results there of . in china and cuba and south and central america and africa it is millions of converts to christianity and in moslem countries ; more people are converting to charismatic christianity than to allah.jimp

Are you saying that it is the pentecostal/charismatic people who are doing evangelization and making converts in this world? If so is it based on the fact that they speak in tongues? If so I see a flaw here.

It seems to me that if we are relying on tongues for evangelizing then we are treading on deception. Doesn't scripture even say that even if we speak with tongues of angels and can prophesy but have not love we are nothing? Love and truth go hand in hand in conviction to repentance. Tongues can be so deceptive.

I don't condemn tongues but I do wish to make my voice heard when I hear tongues being elevated to something it shouldn't be. When it is exalted as if it is some spiritual gift that if any christian doesn't have it then they are not with God. This is the danger those in other countries encounter when swept into charismania. If I am wrong may God, in Jesus, show me my error. I only share this based on my experience within pentecostalism and what they esteem highly.