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Politics and Sermon Index

sermonindex May 11, 2012

Brothers and sisters... political discussions have always been discouraged on this forum, and for good reason. Lately I've allowed myself to be pulled into them as well.

There are newer people here who are making some rather brash statements about other Christians on this forum, and there are others who are being drawn into it.

We need to stop and submit to the wishes of Greg and the other mods, which is to keep the division out of here. And nothing divides like politics. It's the very nature of politics.

There is no doubt Mormonism will be a hot topic this year, and that will come up... but we need to discuss the religion and keep the politics out of it.

I urge you all, brothers and sisters to stick to the intent and purpose of this forum...

Krispy

sermonindex May 11, 2012

Brothers and Sister,

This is something that we want to make clear for all the saint here on the forums. These forums are "not" a place to discuss politics in depth or cater conversations here of elections in the United States. We feel that is distracting from the message, goal and intent of these forums. Please keep our discussions towards the kingdom of God, Scriptures and the bible truths in these sermons.

Of course some major headlines might be brought out once or twice but as a rule we do not discuss these things in length on the forums here because of their divisive, and carnal nature and lacking importance towards the kingdom of God that we all belong to that is not of this earth.

sermonindex May 11, 2012

...and I apologize ahead of time for getting involved in those discussions myself. As they spiralled downward I remembered why we should avoid them here.

Krispy

sermonindex May 12, 2012

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.


13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

sermonindex May 12, 2012

I submit that there is a difference between "politcs" discussion vs Discussion of how governements are to exist and be supported by christians.

"Politics" is like "my party is better than your party or my denomination is better than yours" or I am of Paul, I am of apollos, I am of Cephas, I am of Christ..is Christ divided?

Proper Government function by the Law of Nature and of Natures God is right out of the scriptures from old and New Testaments. God establishes Nations and Governments of those Nations including Israels current form of Government.

So to me it seems that The high caliber of saints that post of SI should be able to discuss Godly Government principles without getting into my party is better than your party arguements.

Also there are those on SI who do not agree about the role of christians in Government or America being a christian nation etc.

So that makes it hard.

On the obama gay marriage thread I detected that the convo might start to get "Political" vs sincere learning and sharpening of our role in our country so I declared that this would be my last post on that thread.

So again I will try to stay within the guideline but I also am not perfect so there will be slips.

M
MrBillPro May 12, 2012

I agree! maybe SI is not the place for political discussions and I can appreciate that, but just remember because "most" Christians that don't want to get involved or discuss their political views, is why this whole country is going south faster than a speeding bullet. Jesus fought for God's will for his life here, and some hated him, some will hate us, but the devil wants to keep us all silenced, and so for he is doing an excellent job, old sluefoot must be happier than a pig in a mud hole.

sermonindex May 12, 2012

There is definately a balance to be had in all of these discussions and I think that Greg has been pretty liberal ( not a political statement:) when it comes to some of these posts because there is in America this blending of Christianity and politics. Obviously gay marriage as it pertains to the state of the country, the state of western civilisation and the possibiltiy of it being another sign of the Lord impending return is very relevant.

The question of Christians being caught up in politics, or entangled in these issues is not a political question at all. It actually is a vital question and obviously there are Christians for involvment and there are Christians against involvment. We should be able to discuss it and we should be able to agree to disagree. If I believe that it is ultimatly sinful to be entangled in the affairs of this world and another thinks that it is sinful not to be involved in the affairs of this world, we should be able to discuss that as 1, mature adults and 2, mature Christians. What tends to happen is that people get angry with each other because pride says " what me, engaged in some kind of sinful activity ( or lack of activity) no, never!!"

One last thing, it cannot be avoided that potentially the next President of America will be a Mormon. There are huge ramifications and a thousand questions asked by Christians and non Christians alike. So, lets avoid the politics, I agree, and stick to the relevant questions that will be asked by the world and by many Christians who may have little understanding of what Mormonism actually is. There is great potential for learning here..........bro Frank

M
MrBillPro May 12, 2012

Well outright blatant attacks on anyone here, like I witnessed today, is out of line period, and only grieves our spirits to even have to read this stuff.

Obama, in his third flip-flop over homosexual marriages, is now claiming that he condoning homosexual marriages based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is the type of thinking that should scare all Christians into getting involved someway/somehow, the days of the timid Christians can no longer be, if we are to gain our morals back in America.

M
MrBillPro May 12, 2012

The majority of Americans (60% to 76%) identify themselves as Christians, mostly within Protestant and Catholic denominations, accounting for 51% and 25% of the population respectively.76% can't stop the other 24% from the ruins? America, we have a problem.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss May 12, 2012

I agree that there is a delicate line between "church" and "state" issues.

This week, there was an issue about what is "right" and "wrong" because our current president made a statement of endorsement regarding the concept of homosexual "marriage." This is "political" in both a "policy" (cause and effect) and in the definition of the word "politics" (where as the Greek word "polis" means "city" or "community"). At the same time, this is a spiritual issue too. It is a matter of righteous v. unrighteousness -- or immorality (as the Word of God describes it).

When legislation is passed by a man who is "elected" by the consent of the "polis," it can have direct impact upon believers. While some have painted the concept of homosexual "marriage" as a matter of equality (it isn't), policy can be extended to the point that it would become "unlawful" for believers to call the lifestyle "immoral." There has already been legislation in which elected politicians or their appointed judges declared the Biblical teaching about homosexuality to be "hate speech." Thus, a believer who continues to teach it (or hand out literature about it) would ultimately become embroiled into the very government legal process that he may have wanted to avoid in the first place.

This is why the issues of "politics" have a tendency to take upon both a secular "political" influence and a spiritual impact simultaneously.

There are many current issues -- like homosexuality, abortion, freedom of worship, publicly funded or protected pornography as "art," etc... -- that have an impact on both the Church and the State.

When I was a teenager, I was sent home from school because I was wearing a Christian t-shirt with an image of Jesus on the cross (from the Jesus Film Project) with the words, "Who do you say that I am?" written on it. An overzealous teacher contacted an overzealous administrator and they told me to go home and change my shirt.

My dad was a Naval officer. He was at home for lunch...and took me back to the school and refused to comply. He waited in the office with me and demanded that the Superintendent of the school district drive to the school in order to meet with him. My dad pointed out that a few kids in the hall were wearing demonic shirts (including an Ozzie Ozborn shirt with demons all over it). Needless to say, I didn't have to change my shirt. This was BEFORE my dad gave his heart to Christ. Yet, a spiritual issue had become a state issue...but was more of a matter of "right" and "wrong" in my dad's mind.

Now, there are many different types of people here on SermonIndex. We come from different backgrounds, beliefs and levels of maturity. There is an old saying in the world about the dangers of conflict that come from discussing "politics and religion." Well, SermonIndex is a testament to the fact that issues of doctrine can often be discussed without meandering into bitter disagreements. There are individuals with whom I disagree about certain issues. However, the danger is when we point them out as "sinful" because of those non-essential views.

For instance, my wife doesn't wear a head covering. She doesn't point out those who do and call it "sinful." Neither should anyone point her out and call her "sinful." It is possible that BOTH are following the Lord with a clear conscience in the matter without necessarily arriving to same exact opinion on the matter. The PRINCIPLE of Biblical modesty and propriety is what matters to both the sister who does and does not feel that it is something that they most practice. Neither should accuse the other of "sin" for following the Lord with a clear conscience. Nor should they be accused of "pride" for disagreeing with someone else's assertion if they maintain a meek disposition about a matter.

Over the next few months, people will likely feel strongly about certain issues. They may feel strongly about the Mormonism cult of which Mitt Romney embraces. They may feel strongly about the Liberation Theology cult that Barack Obama embraces. And, of course, some might find that it is incompatible for a believer to decide that a man who practices Mormonism, Catholicism, Liberation Theology or even some other sectarian religious persuasion as the better choice for a four year job as president. These are acceptable things to suggest. However, we shouldn't be angry (or question the "intellect") when someone doesn't agree. Nor should we introduce myths and rumors into a discussion either (like the "White Horse Prophesy" or that Obama was from Kenya or a Muslim) without identifying it as such.

By the end of November, many of these discussions will probably die down. A president will be elected (or reelected). While this is an important thing in terms of policies and laws in the temporary country that we dwell, I often think that we sensationalize the outcome. Someone used to tell me, "Don't worry, it will all come out in the wash." All of our worrying, concern and debates will not change what is already viewed from Eternity. While I may still choose to share my voice over issues or the positions of candidates (even at the polls), my faith is only in the Living God. He knows the End from the Beginning. I think that we all can rest in the knowledge that God's eye is on the sparrow...and that we are worth more than sparrows.

If I have offended anyone by my words, I do apologize. It was never an intention to suggest that someone should violate their conscience in any such matter. Rather, I would urge believers in all issues like these to go to the Lord in prayer and study of His Word. While we can hear the voices who tell us one thing or another, our direction should only come from God.

So, I do agree that we should be careful to not introduce matters that will distract the Bride of Christ from the Groom. I remember how my wife sometimes felt overwhelmed during our engagement. On top of work and the completion of graduate school, there was a wedding to plan. I would sometimes take her to the side and simply remind her that our focus shouldn't be on the wedding, but on the life for which God has brought us together. She was always grateful for the reminder. I think that the same can be said with our relationship with the Lord. He is what matters most -- and our daily time alone in His presence serves to help us forget the things that matter less in terms of Eternity.

May our hearts be focused on the God of Eternity. With His love in mind, I love each of you.

G
ginnyrose May 12, 2012

_______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
This is the type of thinking that should scare all Christians into getting involved someway/somehow, the days of the timid Christians can no longer be, if we are to gain our morals back in America.
_______________________________________________________________

As I was studying the OT law, I find laws that pertained to the Israelites only and then there were those that applied to the general population in addition to the Jews and these included a ban on homosexuality. In doing so one reads how this sin is an abomination to a country - this is why God destroyed the nations that occupied the country when the Jews moved in.

It has been said once an abomination, always an abomination as far as God is concerned UNLESS it is said otherwise under the new covenant. So, where does this put one? We are not called to lead a revolution against established authority - the early Christians never did.

Then there is the issue of abortion. It is assumed by many that what is needed is to pass legislation banning the procedure. True, this will save lives. But...know what the reality is?

The reality is that many people of 'faith' are having abortions. If the people in the pew would not be having them, this would put a dent in the abortion business.

AND. If people in the pew and pulpit would quit their sins of immorality, there would be fewer cries for the procedure.

AND. Many singles are keeping their babies. Is this a good idea? No. It is no longer shameful for a single to have a baby. (I was appalled when a relative recently gloated about her still single daughter's pregnancy on FB, and she is a southern Baptist! Yes, I threw a wet blanket on it and was the only one to do so. SIGH)

There is value in calling for legislation to ban the procedure but it has been proven to be futile - so far. But what is in one's power and authority is to preach for people to repent of their sins. Unless this gets on a fast track, even this may be restricted by the courts of the land.

This is all within the power of the Christian. No voting has to be done to accomplish this. No campaigning, no funds, no celebs need to promote it, nor any particular political party. Are we willing to fight this battle right where we are? Or, are we being too timid because we are afraid to alienate our kinfolks, our friends by speaking out?

There is a battle to be fought, but I think too many times we are looking to the politicans to do it for us while we sit back and watch but get all in a wad when they fail to do so.

T
Trekker May 12, 2012

QUOTE: "There is definately a balance to be had in all of these discussions and I think that Greg has been pretty liberal ( not a political statement:)"==APPOLUS


ROFL!!! : P

sermonindex May 12, 2012

all i want to say is this; why are only SOME national sins called out, and others completely neglected?

and please dont ask me, what these 'other' national sins are, if you cant see them ALL, ask Jesus and God the Holy Ghost.....or not.

the spirit of babylon is all encompassing, it is wholly evil, it is anti-christ. he who has ears.

A
AbideinHim May 12, 2012

"But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you." (Matthew 6:33).

"Your kingdom come, Your will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10)

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men. For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:1-4).

“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. " (Matthew 5:13-16).

As believers and followers of Jesus Christ, we are not seeking an earthly kingdom but a heavenly one that has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. That being said, our Lord has instructed us to pray "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." We are to pray for our leaders. We are to be salt and light, speaking out against unrighteousness and injustice, and being in agreement with God on what He has to say on issues such as abortion and homosexuality.

The corporate prayers of the saints are much more powerful than any political movement, and the proclaiming of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God that saves man from his sins. The answer to the problems that this nation faces will not be addressed by a political solution but by a spiritual one.

Mike

sermonindex May 12, 2012

"This is the type of thinking that should scare all Christians into getting involved someway/somehow, the days of the timid Christians can no longer be, if we are to gain our morals back in America."

I have no desire to gain 'our' (who are you refering to by OUR btw? americans or christians - or constantines hybrid we have in america) morals back. It should scare everyone that most church people follow this gospel of constantine/ america and are under the wrath of God far more than any homosexual or abortion doctor could ever pretend to be.

We should follow the apostles pattern, not Pat Robertsons.

sermonindex May 12, 2012

The primary focus of SI is Revival or Awakening.

America, christian and non christian needs a Third great awakening.

The previous revival/ great awakenings brought thousands more into the kingdom.

But we need another great awakening.

I was talking with another brother last night who is a bit older than me. He beliveed that we will probably hit a great depression before we can have another Great Awakening.

Obviously I would prefer to avoid the depression part.
But whatever it takes I am still hoping for another Great Awakening here in America.

Walid shoebat posted an article last week saying that America could actuallly be one of the nations that fights against the Antichrist. That gave me hope as well.

Here is the Article

http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/america-in-bible-prophecy/

If some do not agree or agree with his take to me thats ok. I do not claim to have my understanding of all prophecy interp down pat. But it does offer another perspective to put in our spiritual toolbox for thought.

M
MrBillPro May 12, 2012

Well only when you get into someones pocket book will it get some folks attention. The Government is finding backdoor ways "everyday" to change laws that have been on the books for 50 years or more. One day when they find a way to take away the tax exempt status of the Church, your tithes will go to support the politicians that endorse abortion and same sex marriages. Most Christians depend solely on God for everything, the God will fix it all attitude, well the God I serve gave me wisdom and sometimes wants "ME" to use it, to help fight the good fight for his kingdom. I bet a lot of attitudes will change when the tax exempt status is gone, and never let your guard down thinking this can't/won't happen, I see it happening within the next 5 years myself.

sermonindex May 12, 2012

Hmm. Might be the best thing to happen to the church if the 501c3 status is removed. Then the real church might emerge. But I think in 5 years time we nay be somewhere in the midst of Jacob's troubles.

Right now the evangelical church in America is so polluted that a refining work must take place to bring out the remnant. The refining work may be persecution that will precede a revival.

Bearnaster.

H
hulsey May 12, 2012

This is just my opinion, but I think it would be a blessing in disguise for the churches in America to lose their tax exempt status.

M
MrBillPro May 12, 2012

hulsey....This is just my opinion, but I think it would be a blessing in disguise for the churches in America to lose their tax exempt status.

I totally agree! I bet the Pastors churches, homes, and cars would get smaller, and no doubt be the biggest awaking in the Church, since the Church started.

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