We are called to FLEE Persecution, not to be harmed within it.

sermonindex May 21, 2012

It has been noted lately, by several sources, of a rise in the tides of Persecution. The Word makes it very clear that the Last Days; the Tribulation period it will culminate into a murderous frenzy; with multitudes of martyrs and sheer venom toward all confessing Christ as Lord and only Savior.

The beginning signs of this are even apparent right here in the United States. In America, it can be a hate crime to preach that Sodomy is an evil and ungodly act.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7668448/Christian-preacher-arrested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html
[ many other examples ]

In the San Diego area it is ILLEGAL for Christian's to have a home meeting with over 3 guests, while your "gay" neighbors may hold a filthy "pool party" with a hundred or more...[ and do ]. There is a bristling against all Christian, and hate is in the air everywhere we go. The Great Division is being made.

I had a dream last night where I was confronted by a very violent and aggressive Muslim Bully, ready to thrash me. I appeased him in meekness, like a puppy dog would cower....but did not reject Christ, or deny Him. Then, I stood up to him, face to face, and man to man. We parted ways. I awoke guilty, and felt cowardly...[ not that dreams define me; Satan can give fearful dreams.]

Then the Lord began to minister to me, and I remembered the Words of Jesus:

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another."...but... "Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not."

If at all possible, we are to flee persecution; Unless we are ordained to martyrdom or severe suffering, and then, we are to bare it as unto the Lord.

The first great Christian example has to be the Persecution of the Holy Church culminating in 70 AD, but They fled before hand.

Josephus tells of how the Jews were warned to flee in his book, Wars Of The Jews: [The Lord revealed Himself and warned them.]

Josephus writes:"I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals.

For, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding cities.

"Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking."

They then heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "'let us remove hence'" (Book. 6, ch.5, par. 3)

I. Only one group of people understood this sign.

1. Luke 21:2O-21 This was a dual prophecy.

2. The Christians fled Jerusalem."..."BLOW THE TRUMPET"
http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/Lecture4PersecutionFallofJerusalemFlightoftheChurch.htm

Also:......"But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

" Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used."

34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods,[ All property and land confiscated.............]

"knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance."

And then:....."They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

God uses our fleeing to increase our heart through faithful suffering, and to enlarge His Own tent through the spread of the Gospel. Paul, the greatest of men, was let down by a basket:

"But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.

Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.

And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples."

He had a ministry to fulfill, and several times later he used his Roman citizenship to flee death and go on.

I am writing this because I believe the day is coming, sooner than we may think, where this exact same level of total persecution will come upon us; ALL CHRISTIANS and understand that we may have to leave everything we own, our homes, bank accounts, farms, and all possessions, to live...and it is all right, even God's way to preserve and protect us. BT

There will be many martyrs in that day, and if I endure, I think I too will be one, as the Lord has shown me. It will be graduation day for the faithful, in Glorious terms, and there will also be a company that will see the Lord Jesus unveil Himself, and be changed, and drawn to Heaven in the Rapture, the great gathering.

We must resolve ourselves to honor Him no matter what, and we will leave this Earth naked anyhow; Our clothing is in heaven...[ A new Perfect body!!!..Hallelujah! ]

M

Miccah May 21, 2012

Wonderful word Brothertom. Thank you.

sermonindex May 21, 2012

If one can escape persecution then may they find a city of refuge. But I am afraid in the end times the only refuge will be God himself. For Mat.24:9 says you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death and you will be hated by all nations on accout of me. The me being Jesus. In the end most of us may be looking at martyrdom.

This is a subject that American churches will not preach on. There are some good sermons here on SI on the subject. I agree with Greg that we need to immerse ourselves in the literature of the martyrs to be prepared for what may lie in the end times.

I might add the wotd martyr in the Greek means witness. So we are all as believers called to be witnesses or martyrs. Just my thoughts.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex May 21, 2012

I think if you could be lowered in a basket and escape imprisonment for the sake of Christ, then this would be prudent. Or if you had a technicality and could avoid a scourging by being a Roman citizen, it would make no sense to take the scourging. The problem comes when there is no where left to flee. I think the Jewish experience in Europe is a good exmaple of how laws changed, somewhat slowly at first, then very suddenly. I think of the ship full of those poor Jewish men , woman and children, turned away from British and America ports and ultimately returned to Europe.

We should be wise where wisdom allows and be brave when we face the persecutor. In the tribualtion period, there will be a world wide all out war against the saints, so one may hide for a while I suppose, but ultimately it is Gods intervention that will save the elect from complete destruction, I believe that Gods interevention is the Lord Jesus coming back a second time, praise Jesus......... bro Frank

L

Lordoitagain May 21, 2012

I realize that before it is all over with, there will be no safe place on the planet, but if it is possible to flee to another country when the USA goes under, I’ve been looking at Guatemala. I’ve heard several “hair raising” reports lately from people with family members in government positions saying that drastic changes in government are coming soon for the USA. If God does not allow me to escape this country soon enough, I will testify for Him wherever my testimony takes me - to prison camps and then death chambers. If possible, however, I am praying that He will let me and my family escape to Guatemala.

For several years now, I have enjoyed fellowship with several Guatemalans in north Louisiana. Many of them (from different parts of Guatemala) have told me of the overwhelming influence of evangelical Christianity in the country. It has made me want to live there. Many of the churches have places in the mountains where Christians go for “sacrificio” (sacrifice - fasting and praying) often for weeks at a time. On public busses, in parks and all over the place, evangelists are preaching the gospel to all. The native (centuries-old) very modest attire is still the style in most places there, even for non-Christians.

One of my close friends is from a town where when he was younger he was a gang member. They had the typical Central American 13s against the 18s. Now EVERY member of what WAS a gang in that town is a Christian, and many of them are preachers and pastors. They have so many people interceding to God in prayer all of the time, and God is doing great things there. The same friend’s daughter was asked to give Bible lessons in public school.

Recently, another friend told me about the long history of close relations of Guatemala with Israel. Guatemala voted for Israel to become a nation, and ever since then, they have worked closely together. One anti-Israeli site that I found had this to say about Guatemala:
“Guatemala has among the worst human rights records in Latin America and its government is rife with evangelical fundamentalist Christians and Opus Dei Catholics. Its security services possess the latest in population surveillance technology thanks to Israeli companies like Tadiran.”
If you do a search on Guatemala and Israel, you will find a lot of information on their strong friendship.

I don’t know how much longer Guatemala will hold its strong Christian values, and close ties with Israel, but God will have people groups to use as tools to evangelize the rest of the world when the USA goes under, and I believe personally that the people of Guatemala will be such a people for several years to come.

There are still many language groups on earth who have not been evangelized and God will have people in Heaven from every language group. The more that the USA rejects its call to evangelize the world, the closer we come to anti-Christian dictatorial rule here. Wherever God wants me to be, I want to be, but I’m like Brother Tom, I’d rather flee to more freedom to evangelize if possible.

It would be wise for every Christian to have an up-to-date passport just in case it is possible to “flee to another city” at the time of a crash. That city may be in another country. The time that it takes to acquire a passport could block the opportunity to flee.

T

Trekker May 22, 2012

QUOTE: "I realize that before it is all over with, there will be no safe place on the planet, but if it is possible to flee to another country when the USA goes under, I’ve been looking at Guatemala."==LORDDOITAGAIN

Well you might want to go NOW then, cuz the way air port "security" is going, along with baggage and flight costs and everything else, i very much doubt Christians will even be able to leave the country someday soon...The police state is slowly being put into place.

sermonindex May 22, 2012

"We should be wise where wisdom allows and be brave when we face the persecutor. In the tribualtion period, there will be a world wide all out war against the saints, so one may hide for a while I suppose, but ultimately it is Gods intervention that will save the elect from complete destruction. I believe that Gods interevention is the Lord Jesus coming back a second time.
... praise Jesus......... bro Frank

100% amen...Tom

G

ginnyrose May 22, 2012

Michael,

You are from Monroe, LA. I know where that is, have driven through it. This is in the deep south, largely rural like where we live in MS.

In our community we do not experience the foolishness of the big cities. We are pretty well left alone as long as we pay our taxes. Oh, sure there is enough corruption in politics to give Frank Peretti a lot of inspiration for a political novel. Still, we do not feel threatened by gays and other perverts. Do you at Monroe, LA? I am not aware of any preacher being threatened because he preaches against gays. To suggest we are a backwater community could be true except that it is modern. And I figure your community is similar to ours.

Michael, mind sharing more details about what these gov friends are really saying?

Having said all this we have felt we should get passports in case we need or want to leave the country for some now unknown reason in the future.

I am not challenging you, Michael, I just want more facts.

God bless.

ginnyrose

EDIT: We have people of all kinds come into our store, including lawyers...think I am going to start asking some people some questions...the reactions could be informative.

E

Elibeth May 22, 2012

Brothertom,

Jesus told us in Jn.15:20, ' Remember the Word that I said unto you,
The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me,
they will also persecute you; '

Sometimes I do believe the Lord will allow or call us to flee,...
but too there are times that it may that we have to endure.
But that the Lord will give us the needed Grace to endure / overcome,
...if we are Truly His.

I think to of Steven,...How he suffered ,...they stoned him,...and he died.
But the Lord SAVED Steven ....when the Lord brought him all the way through and out the other side, STILL IN HIM, ..He saved Steven to the
Uttermost.
And look what a forgiving heart Steven had....' Father hold this not to their
charge.'
Just AMAZING ! !

Don't we need SO much be built up in Him always ?....I know I do.
And need to love Him with ALL my heart, ALL my soul,ALL my mind and strength,...then I would not have any fear,...because perfect love casteth
out fear...And then I would feel a complete Trust in the Lord,....the Comforter.

In His love,
elizabeth

sermonindex May 22, 2012

Brothertom,

Jesus told us in Jn.15:20, ' Remember the Word that I said unto you,
The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me,
they will also persecute you.

Sometimes I do believe the Lord will allow or call us to flee,...
but too there are times that it may that we have to endure.
But that the Lord will give us the needed Grace to endure / overcome,
...if we are Truly His." ...elizabeth

Eli-Beth, you are so right on you scare me.......

"Don't we need SO much be built up in Him always ?....I know I do."

And need to love Him with ALL my heart, ALL my soul,ALL my mind and strength,...then I would not have any fear,...because perfect love casteth
out fear...And then I would feel a complete Trust in the Lord,....the Comforter."

In His love,
elizabeth
My post in the initial thread....

"There will be many martyrs in that day, and if I endure, I think I too will be one, as the Lord has shown me. It will be graduation day for the faithful, in Glorious terms, and there will also be a company that will see the Lord Jesus unveil Himself, and be changed, and drawn to Heaven in the Rapture, the great gathering." BrotherTom.

May God help us all to be pleasing and strong in Him, for suffering and deprivation shall soon be upon us.

L

Lordoitagain May 22, 2012

Ginnyrose,

The only real solid facts that I can give are those found in God's Word:

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Deu 28:32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand.

Deu 28:41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.

Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

These from Deuteronomy and many others were promises made to Israel ... consequences for forsaking God. If God would bring such things upon His own chosen people, how much more would He do so for a gentile nation that has forsaken Him.

With 40 million+ innocent babies already murdered at the hands of this nation, we are ripe for such wrath and more. Of course there have been several prophecies by David Wilkerson and others.

We actually do have a gay bar in Monroe, but as far as threats against Christians by local government, we don't feel such a threat here.

I'll try to summarize the things that I have heard:

A friend whose brother is in the national guard told me that in February they started extensive training on riot control.

Another friend whose family members are in the Department of Homeland Security quoted me a large amount of ammunition that has recently been ordered ... I don't remember the figure ... but it was enough to put 2 bullets in every person in America ... She said that many countries that have traditionally used the U$D are planning to start using gold and silver and rejecting the U$D. The purpose is to bring down the value of the U$D. When our currency is worthless, rioting will follow. With that and a few more staged "national emergencies", the president will have ample "reason" to declare martial law. Because of the fact that many American soldiers and officers may not go along with the plan, troops from nations that hate us may be called in to subdue and subject our society to a new form of government. According to her, the "dominoes are supposed to start falling" in June of this year, and the president's total control is planned to be in effect by November.

How much of that is accurate? I have no idea. Any "news" from any human source whether media, internet, etc ... is all hearsay. The only solid source of facts is God's Word. We know that there is a reaping time for the years of sowing bad seeds as a nation. As to how it is carried out and when ... only God knows.

Perhaps Trekker can share some "facts" that could shed light on the issue.

Am I worried? Absolutely not. This is my Father's world. What He allows to happen with my life is best, even if it is a painful martyr's death in this country. To Him be all the glory. I do however feel that Christians should have their passports ready just in case God allows some of us to escape such events.

Imagine Germany before Hitler ... Russia before communism ... Never are such invasive plans announced. They just suddenly happen. Windows of escape are rare in such cases, but they do happen. If we are naive enough to think that our constitutional form of government is indestructible, and that it couldn't be destroyed and replaced in our lifetimes, we are foolish.

G

ginnyrose May 22, 2012

Revelation 13:7-10 NASB

7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

I understand from this scripture that your fate in the face of persecution has been predestined....

sermonindex May 22, 2012

Let us realize the reason we will be persecuted is for Jesus Christ and him alone. Jesus warned of this. We should not be surprised when it does happen. Though I imagine some pretribbers will rethink their theology if not fall away.

We need to study the history if the martyrs and realize that the blood of the martyr is the seed of the church.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex May 22, 2012

"If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.".................

"I understand from this scripture that your fate in the face of persecution has been predestined"....Ginnyrose

Amen GR......Very profound and sobering isn't it, and the day comes that reality overcomes our whimsical and romantic ideas about suffering, deprivation and sorrow. The wolf will one day be at the door, and stare us down. Our triumph will then be rested in the Patience of endurance then.

Jesus faced it, in Gethsemane, with sweat as blood as He interceded to allow this cup to pass....but it did not pass. He entered into faithful suffering, with patience disguised in the throws of agony intensified.

The Spirit filled Redeemed of the Earth, We the saved, must also enter this crucible. We will be the hunted ones, as He was. But just as the Roman's tortured Him, and as they touched Him, so "they", the spirit of the hateful world, will touch us.

The flip side to this is that He will glorify Himself through us; in love displayed, in power and healing and truth and light! Stephen was a model death, ordained by the Lord, to reflect the Grace on the faithful martyr that glorified Jesus. His face shone like an angel, as he cried out "Father forgive them"!

He had witnessed, or surely heard of His Master crying the same. Much, much grace will be given to the witnesses in this coming hour. The Reformation also flowed with blood, and fire too, and there is much testimony of the great joy given to those in the flame in cruel agonizing torture, with flesh boiling and melting, offering sweet praise to Jesus, and witnessing love to the henchman.

"He has never forsaken ANY who seek after Him!" Never will.

Also, "God Provides"; His Character revealed to Abraham, the father of faith, at Isaac's sacrifice. We will be provided for. We must seek Him. I think Manna will return to the Earth for some....and water out of the Rock, and armies destroyed by faith. Brothertom

T

Trekker May 22, 2012

QUOTE: "Perhaps Trekker can share some "facts" that could shed light on the issue."==LORDDOITAGAIN

Is this to be taken as sarcasm? If so, it is unnecessary. I hope you did not think that MY comment on page one was sarcastic (??) I was merely honestly stating that basically i think any Christian who is thinking of being able to flee the country from persecution is running out of time (and should look at doing it now or real soon) because airport "security" is becoming tougher (and more ridiculous, if media reports are correct) every day. Once the door of opportunity is closed it is closed. So i just meant that if you are hoping to go to Gautemala's Christian community why wait (much longer)? By your description Gautemala does sound very nice. My comment was not meant to be sarcastic and it was not meant to be taken as any kind of "prophecy" so please don't misunderstand; it was only my opinion based on the way things are going in this country and world. Things are moving headlong in one direction. My apologies if my earlier comment was written in a way that caused you to feel offended. It was not meant to be.

L

Lordoitagain May 23, 2012

Dear Trekker,

Absolutely no sarcasm intended, and no indeed, I didn't take your post as sarcasm. I'm sorry if my post came across in that fashion. The reason that I put "facts" in quotation marks is was to reemphasize what I was stating about the fact that all that we hear from the media or on the internet is the same as what I heard from my friends. Unless I actually hear something from the president's mouth, or from the mouth of an official, I am only repeating hearsay ... even when it appears to be well documented.

The things that I wrote about sound quite bizarre and hard to believe. You also wrote something about a police state. I didn't know if you had any information on the subject that you could share. Those words went right along with the things that I had heard. At first I was even a little reluctant to share what I had heard because I realize that all that I share is tracked and word searches are done on sites. I don't want to be targeted for exposing plans.

G

ginnyrose May 24, 2012

I just read something a little bit ago that tests my patience to the max! I have concluded there must be a lot of people who have been educated beyond their intelligence! Here is the link:
http://www.naturalnews.com/035585_Michigan_farms_raids.html

It goes without saying that when one is not allowed to raise animals on their farms - animals that have been grown by farmers for hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years - without gov approval some folks are plain stupid! Ok, I said it...these city slickers...my patience took a hike.

AND if this type of mindset becomes the norm, it will mean one will be limited in how you can even produce your own food!

Yesterday a customer asked us if we are being regulated by any gov agency? I said "no", suggesting we are so small we likely are flying under their radar. But he said we are. Then I recalled we do have inspectors from the USDA come inspect the accuracy of our scales - not much, wonder if it will change? and how?

STILL...

If what happened in MI becomes wide spread, Lord have mercy! Does this mean we will be forced to feed from gov approved troughs?

Dumb...my imagination has been activated - it seems worse then I knew or thought. If this becomes more widespread the famine that is sure to follow will be man induced by ridiculous bureaucrats.

Bible say anything about famine in the last days?

sermonindex May 24, 2012

"Bible say anything about famine in the last days?"

"AND if this type of mindset becomes the norm, it will mean one will be limited in how you can even produce your own food!"...GinnyRose....

Here's a couple GR, about the Last Days;

"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles."...Jesus

[ She says in her heart ]...I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’

Therefore her plagues will come in one day; death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her."
Jesus

The destruction of the heritage seed line may be the death-knoll of all the Earth. These "Scientific" mutations produce disease and pest free crops, with unusual and guaranteed volume. They, however, are incapable of reproducing themselves; they are sterile.

This was done to guarantee re buy, and to control the market. I wonder, also, if something more sinister is afoot Say; In the long run, what if someone could make you take a mark to live?

sermonindex May 24, 2012

I wanted to add, that our trust must not, nor will not be in our ability to provide for ourselves. I think it has to be on the line of the Egyptian flight of Moses and company. Eventually, they had to trust God alone, and had to be grateful too.

The motto they learned the hard way was to be grateful to God for what they had been granted, and never to complain about what they did not have. Defying this, brought the Wrath of God upon them.

Can you be grateful for a bowl of stale beans, and water?

They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented ; of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith."

And, as the Tribulation period progresses, I think that this is where we, and our children will come to:

"Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound.

" Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

"I can do all things through Christ[ who strengthens me!"

Even die gracefully. Remember sitting at your table, and someone says, "Let's "say" grace."

This is coming to an end. We will be grateful, joyously grateful to God, when He comes through with His Provision. It is one of His Names, by the way, as He declared to Abraham.

Yahweh Yireh (The Lord My Provider)

He has never broken this promise to any who seek after Him.

Z

Zionshield May 27, 2012

...as it was called in 1933 Germany. I am reading Bonhoeffer's autobiograhy and seeing a perspective on this I had not seen before, though I've heard E.Lutzer on the subject. In retrospect one wonders how it was possible. I've just entered the chapters dealing with this and am confounded that the "German Church" even supported the Aryan Paragraph that prevented a Jew from being a part of the German Church. Dietrich met this swiftly with the truth that if they are in Christ they ARE in the Church and several other points.

It's not difficult to see that the culture and the mood is swiftly ripening for persecution. The current administration has attempted the passage of laws that would cripple our ability to prevent their indoctrination of children and hinder our influence in their lives. They've tried to end Christian radio and home schooling among other things. What a change if just these two things had passed. The spiritual war is so plain to see.

Those in the south and midwest USA still see some respect from the population, but there are those in our midst that have the religion of Dawkins. I believe that we are still in a transition where people will still hear the gospel and want to know who Jesus is. Gone are the days that it is normal to "go to church" for most people, but there are still alot of fish to catch.