I was thinking about Jonah.
They threw him over the ship(certain death) and he ended up inside a stomach.
Since he was being disobedient and kept running and running, I wonder like on his 2nd day in the fish, "Am I in hell?"
Some suggest that Jonah was actually dead while in the big fish and resurrected upon being ejected onto the shore. The basis of this is Matthew 12:40,
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt. 12:40)
This was to be a 'sign' to the generation alive at the time. The reference is to Jonah afterwards going into town with a declaration of impending judgment and the people repenting in masse. To this day the resurrection is still a sign.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead. (Acts 17:30, 31)
What an interesting thought!
The Jonah fish story has captured no end of imaginative speculations. Why not read the book and carefully examine Jonah's own words and his own experience. Let Jonah be the spokesman for you - with God's help of course. You may wish to use other Bible study tools and cross references - but the point is, that your thinking will produce much more fruit through your own rigorous investigation - first.
I say - go for it! You may discover some unexpected surprises in God's word. I would not wish to rob you of that joy by dispensing my own package of ideas.
Diane
Hi santana,
Just a simple fact to keep in mind. Not all the words of a man in distress should be taken literally especially one from the Middle East.
For example listen to this from the mouth of David.
Ps 6:6 I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears. {all...: or, every night}
The bottom of the fish seemed to Jonah at this time as a bottomless pit, or the lowest low that a man can descend to.
The other point I want to bring to your attention is the word “ SHAOWL” in Hebrew that is often translated “hell” but really means “bottomless pit” and sometimes is used to mean hell literally or figuratively to mean grave.
Now a days, people who go after damnable heresies take these verses to water down the meaning of hell.
For example they will take the word shaowl that Jonah uses here and say: “ See, He says the fish’ belly was hell, then hell must not be that terrible.” But they willfully forget that just because they had a bad day and said that this day was like hell does not mean that hell will be just like a bad day.
You get the point: When people are in distress they tend to exaggerate their miseries.
I listed 6 verses.
The first 2 the word shaowl from the context means grave.
The following 2 it means bottomless pit and the third 2 means hell.
Ge 44:29 And if ye take this also from me , and mischief that is not filled with water ; and the fire not, It is enough .
Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven , thou art there: if I make my bed in hell hath enlarged herself , and opened her mouth without measure : and their glory , and their multitude , and their pomp are before the LORD : how much more then the hearts of the children of men
Firstly Hell is a waterless place. "He made his home in a home in a whales abdomen, but God got him out without fail." [ a song an old friend wrote. ]
Whale's belly has juice and water in it, and Hell doesn't But, think about the terrifying aspect of it. He may have thought he was going to be digested any second, or probably just die a slow death as he wasted away inside for weeks; Not pleasant. He considered himself a dead-man.
“I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction,
And He answered me.
“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
For You cast me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the floods surrounded me;
All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight;
Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
The waters surrounded me, even to my soul;
The deep closed around me;
Weeds were wrapped around my head.
I went down to the moorings of the mountains;
The earth with its bars closed behind me forever;
Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,
O Lord, my God.
“When my soul fainted within me,
I remembered the Lord;
And my prayer went up to You,
Into Your holy temple.
“Those who regard worthless idols
Forsake their own Mercy.
But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving;
I will pay what I have vowed. [ This was the repentant key!]
"Salvation is of the Lord!”
So the Lord spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.......................
The sign of the prophet Jonah is DEATH and RESURRECTION!....and I also think it is relevant to the End-Time church; today.
She has been stripped and slain, in her own belly of a whale, to get what Jonah got; a new life as he was resurrected on that Ninevehan beach.
I think that this event was witnessed by some people of Nineveh. It is so radical, it is impossible, and when they saw him coming with a message from God, they HAD to believe him; it would be foolish not to under the circumstances. This is why so many believed. He is the only man in the Bible recorded who preached God's Word, and EVERYONE repented and believed...even the animals.
That is an impact, I think.
Jonah would have known he was not in Hell because Hell has never been described as having water and such.
QUOTE: "Some suggest that Jonah was actually dead while in the big fish and resurrected upon being ejected onto the shore. The basis of this is Matthew 12:40,"==ROBERTW
He could not have been dead because scripture records his prayer to the Lord which he prayed while in the belly of the fish. The belly of the whale was symbolic for Hell, and being spewed out by it was symbolic of being resurrected and "spewed" out of the belly of the earth.
"...even the animals."
Tom, would you please explain more?
QUOTE: "Some suggest that Jonah was actually dead while in the big fish and resurrected upon being ejected onto the shore. The basis of this is Matthew 12:40,"==ROBERTWHe could not have been dead because scripture records his prayer to the Lord which he prayed while in the belly of the fish. The belly of the whale was symbolic for Hell, and being spewed out by it was symbolic of being resurrected and "spewed" out of the belly of the earth.
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. (Jonah 2:2)
The reasoning is that hell here should be rendered grave. Our Hebrew word is shĕ'owl and typically, but not always, has the grave in view. The prayer is offered presuming he will shortly face death, but that God will raise him again.
With that said, I am not dogmatic either way. I believe either are possible. There are many stories cited of people and animals being swallowed by large fish and surviving. In either case I think it is difficult to allegorize this passage, except in the way Jesus described it as a sign to that generation.
Some questions regarding Brothertom's words:
I think that this event was witnessed by some people of Nineveh. It is so radical, it is impossible,
and when they saw him coming with a message from God, they HAD to believe him; it would be foolish not to under the circumstances.
Yet, many witnesses of Christ's miracles did NOT repent, but instead they had him crucified. So why would witnessing Jonah coming out of the fish necessarily produce repentance in all?
Not all the words of a man in distress should be taken literally
“God assails me and tears me in his anger,
and gnashes his teeth at me.”
“… he seized me by the neck and crushed me.
He has made me his target
His archers surround me
Without pity, he pierces my kidneys
and spills my gall on the ground
Again and again he bursts upon me;
He rushes at me like a warrior”
from Job 16
We can’t make a doctrine out of every verse – considering that some are passionate expressions of people’s experiences at the time. I find it fascinating there are so many such verses in scripture – crafted in the beautiful poetic style of ancient psalmody, as was Jonah’s psalm.
Diane
Yes and no. This was a prophet and I know you know this but just for the sake of saying it, he was prophesying future events that would take place in the life of Christ.When people are in distress they tend to exaggerate their miseries.
If we were this man in the belly of a whale, firstly we'd wish that we'd had of had a knife and secondly the man knew that he was a dead man. He was waiting to die and it was a slow death being in all that acid, rotting flesh all around him, I can see him almost smothering in globs of fat. The man knew that he was going to die it was just a matter of when. Jonah felt like he was in hell. He would have known about hell there is a Jewish teaching on the subject that is not in our bible. He described it through prophetic language that he was not aware that he was speaking being so engulfed in his own miseries. He knew that God was a God of mercy and compassion but he also knew that God was a God of judgment and therefore he would have no way of knowing that God was going to have mercy on him, as far as he was concerned he was judged and he was going to die.
Thanks for bringing light regarding the word hell and Sheol, it's the correct use of this word being the grave. Why we confuse it with fire is beyond me, even in Revelations it's says that "death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire".
"He is the only man in the Bible recorded who preached God's Word, and EVERYONE repented and believed...even the animals."BT
"...even the animals."
Tom, would you please explain more?"
UntoBabes asked.
So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying,
Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it."
Here we see that even the animals were forced to fast and wear sackcloth as a sign of repentance. Everyone repented, even the animals.
May I ask what did they repent of, and what exactly did they believe? That could be an interesting thread all by itself!
Hi Approved,
At least we know the following from the old testament alone about Shaowl
(1) It is a place of pain:
Ps 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
(3) Sorrow:
2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell , and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. {shall burn: or, hath burned} {shall consume: or, hath consumed}
(5) A place for the devil and his followers:
Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
These sre just few verses.
Now, the New Testament sheds much more light on the subject especially concerning its duration ( eternality) .
UntoBabes asked:
"May I ask what did they repent of, and what exactly did they believe? That could be an interesting thread all by itself!"....
That is the obvious, isn't it? Of course they were but dumb animals, incapable repentance or faith, yet there it is; animals fasted and wore sackcloth. The king for some reason included these beasts in the National repentance.
I would assume as a token before the Lord at the sincerity of the fullness of the repentance. He held nothing back, for He correctly believed Jonah as the Prophet he was. He may have recalled Sodom's fate, as this event must have shaken the entire known world, earlier in Abraham's day, but yet remained in the history of his ancestors, and it is well known that these Jews were his descendants, and carried God's Word......BT
Roadsign questioned:
....."and when they saw him coming with a message from God, they HAD to believe him; it would be foolish not to under the circumstances." ..quote from me; BT..
The question?: "Yet, many witnesses of Christ's miracles did NOT repent, but instead they had him crucified. So why would witnessing Jonah coming out of the fish necessarily produce repentance in all?"......
It is simply a matter of the fiber of a people at a particular time; some are hardened at a time, some have the grace to repent and believe. Sodom, a few hundred years earlier, heard the testimony of righteous Lot, and though righteous Abraham himself interceded, the grace was not there. They were destroyed.
Sodom and Gomorrah, and the plain cities that God destroyed, was not a isolated incident. The entire known world knew that FIRE from Heaven fell here, and why. The Earth trembled in fear at what God finally did, and WHY?
Egypt was also a dramatic event in Ancient history, and through Pharoah's hardness and the Hebrew prophet Moses' prophesies, destroyed. again, this was a worldwide event, and brought terror on the nations in that ancient time.
This could be a reason that the King of Nineveh repented. Sodom and Egypt's testimony was known throughout the Earth hundreds of years later, and Nations knew God was real and to be feared. They [ the Assyrians ] were convicted and feared. they wanted to live, and not be as the annihilated..............BT
"The name Jonah (Hebrew: Yonah) means "dove." He was the son of Amittai, of the tribe of Zebulun (Joshua 19:13), and from the city of Gath-hepher which is in the region of Galilee. It is believed by some of the Jewish Rabbins that Jonah is to be identified with the dead son of a widow from Zarephath who was raised to life by Elijah (I Kings 17). However there is no basis at all for such an assumption. "
"Through the preaching of Jonah, and the repentance of the people of Nineveh, the city was spared at this time. However, history tells us their repentance was fairly short-lived. Soon they had fallen back into their sinful way of life. The prophet Nahum was then sent to these same people. However, they failed to repent (as they had with Jonah), and thus were destroyed in 612 BC. "
Al Maxey: "The Minor Prophets"
http://www.zianet.com/maxey/Proph8.htm.....................
BT writes:
History shows us that after Nahum came to the Assyrians and Nineveh, it's capitol,and that they fell back into the abominations of Jonah's day, and finally were utterly destroyed. [612BC]....[ approx: 120 years later.]
In Archeology, some of the sculpted stones they have discovered there are so ugly and gross they were not allowed to be displayed in public British Museums. [ Bestiality etc.]
Israel and her prophets were light to the entire world, and all it's kingdoms, and after a while, some actually believed and repentance came.
May I ask what did they repent of, and what exactly did they believe? That could be an interesting thread all by itself!
We have this insightful passage:
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. (Matthew 12:41)
Jesus using the word repentance in this sentence gives us, in effect, His definition of repentance. The people of Nineveh did works meet for repentance. As we will learn at the end of the book, the people didn't have sense enough to know their right hand from their left, but they had enough sense to repent. (Jonah 4:11) How did it happen?
First, And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. (Jonah 3:4) This message offered no hope. It was simply a declaration; Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. This is instructional. The result? So the people of Nineveh believed God. (Jonah 3:5a) This is essential to any persons’ repentance; they have to believe what God has said. Romans 1 declares that man prefers to exchage the truth of God for a lie. Simply 'believing' sounds simple enough because the word ‘believe’ gets thrown around so much that it often has no real bearing on reality. The people of Nineveh believed so as to proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. This is fruits worthy of repentance.
You will also notice that they were not given a checklist of things to repent of. They were left to themselves to sort it out. This tells me that God knows that we know what is offending Him. There is no need for ministers/preachers to stand in a pulpit and start listing off possibilities. Folks will sometimes pretend they don’t know what they need to repent of, etc.; but apparently God is not buying it and Nineveh is the example. The declaration of judgment that they believed had a sobering effect on their minds. It reversed decades of the noetic effects of sin. Keep in mind that they were a pagan society and exceedingly brutal. No Bible. No Sunday Schools. No churches on every corner. Yet they repented at the preaching of Jonah. This is exceedingly sobering to consider.
We have another facet to Nineveh’s example when we read, For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. (Jonah 3:6)
If you or I are ever going to repent in the biblical sense, according to the definition of Jesus, then the ‘king’ that is in my and your heart is going to have to arise from his throne and lay his robe from him. The king that has been inside you and I, calling the shots ever since we first told our mom (mum) or dad, NO! We have to come off of the throne of our own life and utterly humble ourselves before the true King. This is the key. This is more than outward things, it is an inward change of attitude. What else did they do? Let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. (Jonah 3:9)
Notice that the knew they were doing evil and violence. If someone would have challenged them before this preaching event they may have acted ignorant and argued all sorts of nonsense as in our times. Yet, these people were unique. They believed the word when it came to them. Many of the Jews did not believe. Many in our times do not believe. In the Revelation many will not believe in spite of the awesome means that God employs to secure their repentance. What can we learn from this? We have the key in Hebrews.
While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. (Hebrews 3:15)
The list is long of people and nations that did the opposite of what this passage says. Pharaoh comes to mind. Instead of hearkening he hardened himself. Hardening, once the person begins to reject truth, emplys three persons: the rebel, Satan and God. The rebel hardens their heart, Satan blinds their minds and God sends strong delusion to believe the lie. Niniveh did not go down that road. They believed turned around and did what their common sense told them to do without any outside counsel.
This is Jesus definition of repentance.
This could be a reason that the King of Nineveh repented. Sodom and Egypt's testimony was known throughout the Earth hundreds of years later, and Nations knew God was real and to be feared. They [ the Assyrians ] were convicted and feared. they wanted to live, and not be as the annihilated..............BT
Also, how possible is it that Ninevites witnessed Jonah’s deliverance as you suggest, considering that Nineveh is a very long way from the sea. Even if two of them happened to see it, why should that necessitate the entire city’s repentance. Certainly the two witnesses of the Promised Land (Joshua and Caleb) didn't trump the skepticism of the entire nation!
…. Just questioning the possibility of creative reasoning over and above explicate biblical information….
Overall, this surely is an example of God's mercy: He has mercy on whom he wishes, and he hardens (blinds) people too - for his glory. And here we have a beautiful display of God's glory - on a wicked pagan city at that! Could these people have softened their hearts towards God without his power of mercy and love (the very quality that drove Jonah against God's calling on him)?
Diane
"The list is long of people and nations that did the opposite of what this passage says.
"While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation."
(Hebrews 3:15)..[ punctuation mine ]
"Pharaoh comes to mind. Instead of hearkening he hardened himself. Hardening, once the person begins to reject truth, emplys three persons: the rebel, Satan and God.
The rebel hardens their heart, Satan blinds their minds and God sends strong delusion to believe the lie.
Nineveh did not go down that road. They believed turned around and did what their common sense told them to do without any outside counsel.
This is Jesus' definition of repentance." RobertW.....
Right down to the roots, Robert; Amen, and very well expressed. If we consider the consequences upon men who choose to ignore Holy warnings from the most common of men...[ a stinky beach vagabond like brother Jonah..]..and harden their hearts..... and become blinded....and then deluded; BY GOD HIMSELF!....we must tremble.
Hades is so real, so terrible and so long; Forever her fire burns. What an awful fate, as Sodom proved, and God and His servants reach out and beg them to turn back; As faithful Abraham did in intercession, because he feared God and loved the lost.
I wanted also to point out the great difference between Jonah's Ministry [ similar to John the Baptist's and many other prophets of repentance ] and THE SIGN of the ministry of the Prophet Jonah.
I think that God molded these circumstances around Jonah, and even constructed Jonah's hardening of his own heart, in order to attain the witness of "the great fish." The sign of the prophet Jonah is too fundamental in the ministry of the Lord Jesus, Creator. The sign of the prophet Jonah, as referred to by Jesus as "THE ONLY SIGN FOR THIS GENERATION" at Jerusalem.
"He [ Jesus ] began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. "For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation."
How could he become a sign to Nineveh [ different than just a prophet preaching ] unless people there witnessed the incredible and amazing phenomena of a Whale beaching, and a living human being emerging covered in seaweed, and Screaming; "REPENT! for yet 40 days and you die!??" This was an impossibility, and a one time event upon the face of the Earth.
The eternal similar sign was the incredible sign of Jesus raising from the dead after being murdered through the terrible torture of the CROSS, and then being buried for Three days, and then LIVING again!
The Sign; Jesus died and rose again; as Jonah did. He alone is God. The witness is ours, as it was given to the apostles also. We have been given Grace to believe. Let us not waste it, and hurl ourselves into His leading without reservation.
I had a dream a few days ago: I was with Christians in ministry, travelling here and there, at various Christian venues. These were mostly preachers and their followers. Soon, it became very obvious that these men I was associated with were acting out of the flesh. Self-will and pride began to overcome them, and I just had to get away. I separated myself from them.
I entered a room, where some others were, and I rested on a couch. There was a TV in the room, and their was a News cast on. A talking head appeared, as the Newscaster spoke, holding some papers he was reading.
"We have some breaking News! The sign of the the Prophet Jonah is soon to appear!"...and repeated it again.......end. [ some personal guidance then...]
I am aware that the Cross and Resurrection is the Sign of the prophet Jonah. The impression I got was about the End-Time Church; what I call the remnant; that Bride without spot or blemish that He returns for...who has made herself ready. This Bride has been put to death; slain, by God Himself.
Hosea 2: "Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth,
And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy;
Then I will say to those who were not My people,
‘You are My people!’
And they shall say, ‘You are my God!’”
When we are sown, we are planted. This speaks of the "Seed", Jesus himself, who prophesies of His own sowing, His willful and passionate death by the cross.
" But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.
He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. "
This people has always been, in every generation, as it will emerge in ours. A people who are possessed with mercy and therefore his power and heart. Yet, before they are resurrected; they must be slain; put to death.
"For we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, of our trouble which came to us in Asia: that we were burdened beyond measure, above strength, so that we despaired even of life.
Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead!".............Paul, 2 Corinthians 1
I believe that there is a people, all around the Earth, and thereby right here in America, where I live, that have been mandated to die, to be driven into the wilderness, to be planted, sown, by God Himself.
God has stripped them of all of their hopes and dreams and ambitions and loves. They have been given the sentence of death, and inherited by faith the sign of the Prophet Jonah, and soon this company is going to emerge out of the Earth, where they have died, and soon to appear in Resurrection life.
These are they that have learned to "Eat His Flesh, and drink His Blood", as their only food. This means they live a life feeding on Mercy, as they trust in His Sacrifice for God to show them MERCY...and there-by cleanliness; Holiness.
It is the only way. No other performance or position will do. We are other covered by the blood, and clean, or we continue in our sin, albeit religious acting and looking "as Christian".
I have been waiting at least 10 years, when I was made aware that they were coming, in visions then. They all have eyes, men and women, like Jesus. They are the holiest and most powerful company we have ever seen, and when mankind touches them, they will touch Jesus himself.
There is such a thing as an end-Time Bride. These, are that. I think the dream meant that soon they will emerge, and these will carry revival. Maybe not as was before; I am not sure, but I know they will not trust in their own way, as Jonah. They will trust in God who resurrects the dead. How we need this, and them.
I believe that these will continue in this resurrection life and power until Jesus Himself unveils Himself at the Rapture.[ parousia ]
Even with the horrors of the Tribulation upon us, these will stand and bring Glory from Jesus' Heart and his troughs of Provision, as they lay their lives down for multitudes with great power as we have never seen.
It will be a good day, and maybe it is soon upon us.
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