i was wondering what peoples opions are on brownsville pensacola?was it of God?would it be described as a revival or renewel or is this deception?i have read a few books & are reading 1 at the moment about it. your opinions
I've actually met John Kilpatrick, pastor at Brownsville. I believe he is sincere. At the time, I bought into all that stuff. I was new in the Lord and not grounded in the Word at all.Now, 7 years later... I believe that as sincere as Kilpatrick may be, Brownsville and TACF in Toronto teach a tremendous amount of false doctrines, and therefore it is deception. Thats not to say that some good hasn't come out of those so-called "renewels"... but false teachers are false teachers, and scripture exhorts us to have nothing to do with themKrispy
...and Lynwood Cooley, I believe his name was, the worship leader. I'm still blessed when I hear some of those songs. But I agree, Brownsville and Toronto both were more man made creations that a true moving of God. Did not Jesus warn of those things saying "I'm over there". What was His warning? Don't go. Why? Because we are His true dwelling place. If you want to really catch up with God, just look within. He's in there trying to shed light on our path, and mold us into the servant nature, ever giving without any expectation of return. If you want to read about true revival, read a little book called "Like a Mighty Wind" by Mel Tari. I think you can still find it. See what happened when the revival came. Pay close attention to what happened in the days that followed the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. You'll be blessed.
I wanted to concerntrate on Brownsville more that TorontoKrispyKrittr wroteBrownsville and TACF in Toronto teach a tremendous amount of false doctrinesId like to know specificley what are these?LahryIf you want to read about true revivalwhat is the hall marks, the distingushing things of A REAL revival?
I wanted to concerntrate on Brownsville more that TorontoKrispyKrittr wroteBrownsville and TACF in Toronto teach a tremendous amount of false doctrinesId like to know specificley what are these?LahryIf you want to read about true revivalwhat is the hall marks, the distingushing things of A REAL revival?
True revival is all God's work. Each one is unique, I think. The thing that really impressed me in "Like a Mighty Wind" was that there was no "outside" influence. God just "showed up". There were two things that really caught my eye. First, there was intense and greatful worship. Second, they could not wait to tell others about it. Having experienced a personal awakening without any outside influence, I could really connect with this particular revival. Hope that answers your question.
One thing that I find interesting is that the Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit will always work to bring glory and honor to JESUS, and not Himself. Many of these "revivals", especially Brownsville, concentrate on the Holy Spirit, and worship the Holy Spirit... and the Holy Spirit is preached and emphasized more than Christ. To me, from my experiences back when I was into all that, they have things backwards. Thats not to say they dont preach salvation, they do... but once someone gets saved everything is almost 100% focused on the Holy Spirit. Thats not right. It's not Biblical.Krispy
Much previous discussion on these as well, so just for reference:Revival at BrownsvilleCounterfeit Revival?John KilpatrickPaul and (Leonard) Ravenhill against the brownsville revival?
Quote:what is the hall marks, the distingushing things of A REAL revival?One of the hall marks of a true revival is the false. My pator used to hold camp meetings in tents back in the 50 and 60s and he told me that "you can always tell when God was moving in the camp meetings when the hypocrites and "spectale makers" came out."I don't know enough about Brownsvile to make a call on it though. So ill drop that little nugget and watch this one for more info. ;-)
Well, when I think of any type of revival, repentance comes to mind........and the fruit of that repentance is a PERMANENT change of life/mindset/focus.If all someone walks away with is a "good feeling", temporary refreshment, etc........that is NOT revival in my opinion. Those things can all be manufactured by the "flesh" and they will not produce lasting effects.Also, with these types of "outpourings"???, the "fruit" many times is what we see in many false religions/cults----manifestations that are not of God, but are certainly of the spiritual realm......a realm a Christian has no business entering and is to be on guard of. Laury gave perfect advice-----do not go here nor there to "find Christ"........He is where we are and He is desiring to REVIVE all those areas of our lives which are dead. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy
Good point, Cindy. Scripture tells us that many will come and say "Here is Christ" or "There is Christ" ... I know many people who travel hundreds of miles to "experience" revival. I've experienced revival at my kitchen table... just me, Jesus, and His Word. No trappings, no music... just Him convicting me of how wicked my heart can be at times. And it's never fun. The results are good, but the conviction hurts like a holy root canal with no novacain.Krispy
Crsschk thanks for the links, to other times this has been discussed.Inotof I think you answer is wise; it’s true that with the real there is the false? With history’s of revival there has always been, accusations, critics, misinformation.Gods presence Manifestations, lives changed & God glorified.Well, when I think of any type of revival, repentance comes to mind........and the fruit of that repentance is a PERMANENT change of life/mindset/focusBrownsville had repentance?Do you still need to adjust your focus?Or break mind sets?Church traditions,Are you still changing your life, or have you arrivedI know for myself mindsets are broken, my focus can moveOr my life can have set backs So do others,If where talking about having personal revival at home these things should happen aswel? But even as the children of Israel turned from God again & again we have that same tendency.Whither in revival or a time of visitation or at home or wherever he meets with us.If all someone walks away with is a "good feeling", temporary refreshment, etc........that is NOT revival in my opinion. Those things can all be manufactured by the "flesh" and they will not produce lasting effectsI agree it can be worked up.What if in your prayer time Jesus speaks to you & you feel good about it, even refreshed that can be temporary that feeling?Also, with these types of "outpourings"???, the "fruit" many times is what we see in many false religions/cults----manifestations that are not of God,And the proof you have to back this statement up? Or have you just read it on a website."the fruit many times"what about the other times then if only” many times” happens? are certainly of the spiritual realm......a realm a Christian has no business entering and is to be on guard ofWe have no business in? Aren’t we spirit, body & soul? I know by his spirit he talks to my spirit.We operate from the spirit realm to affect this realm,For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.Is this in the spiritual realm?Laury gave perfect advice-----do not go here nor there to "find Christ". In the histories of revival, people have always gone to see what was going on.When God started to do a work somewhere, to mock or check it out.I remember hearing of Leonard ravenhill talking about William booths 2nd in charge, he went to the welsh revival.Booth said why go there what was there, he said in effect that he meet with God again, refreshed his love for the lost, booth later said we’ve been missing it( quote me if im wrong its on a sermon by ravenhill here on this site) [I know many people who travel hundreds of miles to "experience" revival. I've experienced revival at my kitchen table... just me, Jesus, and His Word. No trappings, no music I’ve had some visitations from God aswel at home, with other people at different churches,as have other people.There’s something about when he comes that heaven invades the place he is there in his Holiness his love & majesty, But it still doesn’t mean you can’t go somewhere to meet with GodWhen God starts moving why does he move?What moves him?What some places not others?Hungry people? Maybe that’s why he visits certain places & bypasses othersReally at the end of the day he can do whatever he wants, wherever he wants for whatever reason he wants?Does he have to do it according to a church tradition, or to our own little minds thinking? Scripture tells us that many will come and say "Here is Christ" or "There is Christ" .So how do we know it’s the real not the real Christ then?they could have been preaching him?Can you give examples?of how we are to knowMany of these "revivals", especially Brownsville, concentrate on the Holy Spirit, and worship the Holy Spirit... and the Holy Spirit is preached and emphasized more than Christ.This is a generalisation statement,I’m listening at the moment to Steve hill (a Brownsville preacher) called what do you believe, he emphasised CHRIST getting right with him, ... but once someone gets saved everything is almost 100% focused on the Holy Spirit. That’s not right. It's not Biblical. Jesus said john 16.13-15“However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14“He will glorify me, for He will take of what is mine and declare it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to youHas anyone seen or heard any sermons from when the revival or renewal was happening?If so what is your opinionId still likes to know what is false that they taught.What doctrines?How was he another CHRIST?has anyone also read any of dr michael l browns books? a person who was there at the time most of these things occured.ive encloseed a link to http://www.fireonthealtar.com/compilations/index.html if you scroll down to Eric Millers namehe has compilations, aswel as sermons by steve hill from brownsville,if youve already heard them can you give your thoughts?thanks
What seemed to be an inquirey at the beginning has now become clear... your mind is already made up.I used to be involved in all of that stuff. Been to B'ville, met Kilpatrick, etc etc... Praise God I came out of all of that when I couldnt square the whole "revival" & WOF movement with what is in the Bible.Example of false mainisfestations? How about laughing uncontrolably? How on the floor barking like dogs? How about being "slain in the spirit"? I've witnessed all of that at B'ville with my own eyes. Please produce one piece of scripture that shows evidence of this during the Apostalic times. (And dont give me the scriptures where the guards fell like dead men... show me where laying on of hands knocked people over.) Good rule to remember... if it aint in scripture, then by definition it's unscriptural.Krispy
If God is about to do all that the prophets predicted He would - WHAT A GLORIOUS FUTURE JUST AHEAD! A purged, purified ministry! A Church that God is calling back to repentance and holiness. A people washed, cleansed - offering praises in true righteousness. A revival among our young people! Drug strongholds coming down! Alcohol and divorce no longer prevalent among God's people. The sound of prayer - intercession! A people of God who will discern between the holy and the unholy! Everywhere, God's people turning again to the Word. A tested, tried people, once again devoted to the Person of Jesus Christ! His Person being lifted up to draw all men to Him! Christ no longer the stranger in our midst, but CROWNED - PRE-EMINENT! A Pentecost that truly exalts the name and power of Jesus Christ, the Lord of all.
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