BSBKJVWEBYLTASVBBEWMBT4TDBY|HymnsMusicDonate
Menu
General

Can a Child Molester Inherit the Kingdom of God?

D
dkr777 May 26, 2012

Today a man I knew very well who has a large family and was a professing Christian was sentenced to 19 years in prison for molesting 5 young girls under the age of 13 over a few years.

He was also an elder of the church we attended (and after we left) and was committing these crimes while we were attending the church around 10 years ago.

I apologize for this thread's topic, but on a theological understanding, I am trying to wrap my mind around this. While in my own life I have personally walked through repentance of sexual sin in my life, it did not come to this level of breaking the law of the land.

I guess my theological question is, how can a man in his position commit such an incredible sin, and still profess Salvation in Christ and be an elder in a local church as well?

Was he a Judas, a "false convert"? or was he saved during his acts of sin and believed that God would forgive Him after he committed this devious act towards these young girls.

Does a theological position encourage one to sin and think it's "ok" because I'm really saved still or does one person who sins like this just was 'never saved' or 'would lose his salvation'???

I know I'm bringing up alot of controversial theological topics but in all reality, I need to understand the truth Biblically on this because it really happened close to home.

Thanks,
dkr777

M
Miccah May 26, 2012

You asked,

Can a Child Molester Inherit the Kingdom of God?


Answer: Yes.

O
onemite May 26, 2012

Hi dkr-

This subject most definitely causes us to look at what we believe and why. It's very important too. All these answers are in the word of God. He is above all things a loving and JUST GOD wanting none to perish. When I find myself needing to compartmentalize things in black and white but cannot, I am reminded that God is always just.

Miccah is right, a child molester can inherit the kingdom of God. They can be forgiven just like you or me for our sins and the good news is they can be transformed out of their dead life and be conformed to the image of Christ if they come to the saving knowledge of the truth and repent.


I know that you asked for theology, for which I am not qualified to discuss, but here are the verses that came to my mind as I read what you posted. I am sure that many here will add some good things for you to read.

2 Timothy 2: 19" Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “ The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “ Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.'"

Galatians 5:21-19 "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God."
"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness."

1 Cor 6:"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

Mark 9:42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea."


1 Corinthians 5 "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person."
"For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

1 Corinthians 5:"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife!"
So it is easy to judge that molesting a child would have been considered severely immoral.

Hebrews 10 says, " For we know Him who said, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord. And again, 'The Lord will judge His people.' 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

That being said,I've resolved myself to accept that while I do make judgements pertaining to behavior in the church, I do not make myself judge over a persons eternal life or death(lest I defile my own heart). I leave that to the Lord, who is truly just.

I hope some of this helps.
I'm convinced of it.

sermonindex May 26, 2012

I guess my theological question is, how can a man in his position commit such an incredible sin, and still profess Salvation in Christ and be an elder in a local church as well?

If this man repents from his sin then God is just and righteous to cleanse him from all unrighteousness. Grievous as this account is in its implications for the children and even this man, his family and church, it is the Lord's name which is brought down in the minds of many as a consequence.

Regarding whether or not this man was somehow false is a mistaken question because his conversion would have preceded these crimes. Moreover he may never really have know deliverance from lust in his life. His problems could have simmered away drawing him ever closer to evil actions. Had he judged himself concerning his mind, when he had he chance he would not have come to this place at all. Becoming an elder would have made more certain his guilt was found out now rather than not being found out. I don't mean this in regards to authorities or governments of men; I mean found out by the other elders and brethren for Christ's sake.

From the beginning his marriage to a woman may well have temporarily restrained him. In the end, even now he could continue "in his mind," and his condition when the Lord returns may be no better than in the hour he was uncovered. He may even repent with real sorrow and brokenness. Who knows! One thing is clear. He is found out. This gives him an opportunity in bitterness of his soul to make restitution of letters and in that the Lord may be comprehended as ever merciful and faithful for his family, brethren and church. For the little girls a more difficult labour may be required. The Lord have mercy.

R
roadsign May 26, 2012

Does a theological position encourage one to sin and think it's "ok" because I'm really saved still or does one person who sins like this just was 'never saved' or 'would lose his salvation'???

This seems to be a common default question in an attempt to resolve such matters, but I think it is unhelpful. This question does not help God’s people move towards an understanding of the actual sin problem, or of the solution, or of the prevention. And even if we do happen to know the sinner’s rationality or his final destiny, nothing will change. If we determine that he was hell-bound anyway, we will simply write off the culprit and absolve ourselves of any responsibility in the matter. Child molestation is a serious evil that affects everyone.

For now I merely offer some questions to consider:

1) What predisposes some people to become addicted to sexual exploitation of children?

2) Who “out there” can help us grow in our understanding, and how can we avail ourselves to those resources? (This question prevents God’s people from drawing from their own uninformed opinions and superstitious notions)

3) What children are more vulnerable to sexual exploitation?

4) What is there about a Christian church family that enables such sin problems to flourish unchecked, and that allows the people to remain in denial about their sinfulness?

5) What changes among God’s people are needed in order for it to become a repentant community, to restore and strengthen the bonds of family relationships – and also expose falseness of any kind among their people. (remembering that the church is typically an ideal hideout for any unchecked sin … oh…. …. and why is that?)

6) What has God given his people through Christ, which can deliver them from besetting sin problems and make them, together, a strong deterrent against sin?


In view of the answers to such questions, how effective our our "prevention policies"?


Diane

sermonindex May 26, 2012

What is very disappointing in churches like this is that no one had "discernment". That no one got a word of knowledge, as we see in the book of Acts. That none of the other elders nor the pastor nor any mature Christian was in a position to discern through the Spirit that something was going on with this man.
Many times we hear people say After the fact - "I had an uncomfortable feeling around him." and the such - but the churches haven't been taught on how to use this discernment in a helpful way. It doesn't help these girls to say afterward that some had a "creepy feeling inside", and the other elders and pastors would be or should have been used of GOD, if this had been a Church that knew His voice or 'gifts' and would know how and what to do about the discernment given.
Was GOD not able to expose before all of this happened? I believe He is always faithful - but He needs an open vessel 'in' the church and the church needs to stop fearing that true discernment is 'judging' or unloving.
The fault was not GOD's.

W
White_Stone May 26, 2012

I completely agree with JiG.

H
hulsey May 26, 2012

Can you see yourself as unclean as this man? Then you will know that he can be forgiven. And you will know there is healing for the ones he's hurt.

*edit* Here is a link to the story of another 'terrible' man who was known as the Son of Sam killer. He now calls him self the Son of Hope:

http://www.thesonofhope.com/david.html

sermonindex May 26, 2012

Another hard issue with these things is the responsibility sometimes has to fall on the wife of such a man, if she's aware of something being sinful in her husband's life and he's in any position of leadership as well - as in 'preventative measures' ordered by The LORD, individually.
Since The Word warns us that in the last days these things will only increase, we do need to be more careful than ever to walk in the fear of The LORD and circumspect, but this too falls upon the wife, if she knows at all that her husband is having trouble in any area. Even if he's a treasurer of a church and a thief - or etc - her first responsibility is to GOD and His Church.
If he's involved with pornography and she knows it - she is obliged to GOD and His Church and others, above her own safety, to protect others as she's led by GOD. She needs to approach her husband asking that a third party be involved in his problem and if that doesn't work - then she needs to take it to the pastor or whatever elder type man in the church that GOD tells her to go to about it, after much prayer.
I've seen this carried out the Matthew 18 way by a wife and the Church was spared being deceived, or worse, but the man did not repent, though the Church was one of the most compassionate, forgiving of Churches - he got seven times worse instead and had to be removed from membership.
It is a tough time to be a NT Christian. We truly do need to get back to the model of His Word.

T
Trekker May 26, 2012

QUOTE: "Today a man I knew very well who has a large family and was a professing Christian was sentenced to 19 years in prison for molesting 5 young girls under the age of 13 over a few years."==DKR777


I think the key word here is PROFESSING. He was/is a PROFESSING Christian. I can walk into a donut shop and profess myself to be a donut. In time, i can even make MYSELF believe i am one if i want to.

R
rbanks May 26, 2012

Absolutely Not!

There will definitely not be any child molesters in heaven!

Marvel not, for we must be born again!

H
hulsey May 26, 2012

Absolutely Not!

There will definitely not be any child molesters in heaven!

Marvel not, for we must be born again!

The way the original post is worded insinuates that the sin being reported is not repented of. In that case I agree that a person in that state cannot inherit the Kingdom. But neither can gossips, slanderers, those who hate their fellow brothers and sisters, and liars, etc.

But do you think there is no repentance for someone caught in this sin? I think there is.

R
rbanks May 26, 2012

quote-

But do you think there is no repentance for someone caught in this sin? I think there is.
quote

Yes, but only if God grants him the repentance, but that would be true of any sin. If there is true godly sorrow of sin and true faith in the Lord Jesus then I believe that God desires to grant repentance unto life.

sermonindex May 26, 2012

"Child Molester saved? In heaven?

..."Yes, but only if God grants him the repentance, but that would be true of any sin. If there is true godly sorrow of sin and true faith in the Lord Jesus then I believe that God desires to grant repentance unto life...
RBANKS...Amen Rbanks!

"What sin can God not forgive?" Jesus said all sin except the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit "Shall be Forgiven!". ALL means ALL...and that means confessing it and forsaking it. The sinner of any ilk who does not forsake his sin, turn away, repent of it, is still dead in his sin. All of those who are dead in their sin, are lost.

..." And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still!”


Let us consider one worse than a child molester, if there be such a thing. Mannasah; the Caligula of Israel.How great is God's grace? Profile of King Manasseh.

Following from "Christian Forums" online.

Manasseh came to power at age 12. His father was the famous, righteous king Hezekiah. Ironically, his son was the even more famous, and more righteous Josiah, who was responsible for the greatest revival and most consistent faithful leadership of all the kings.

But Manasseh was more infamous than even the kings of Israel. He single handedly brought on the utter destruction of Jerusalem. Here is how his account begins:

2Ki 21:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

As if this wasn’t enough he surpassed the heathen, of whom God declared that their sins were ‘full’.

Manasseh seduced (Jerusalem) to do MORE evil than did the nations whom the LORD destroyed before the children of Israel.
Not content with building groves and high places or even the temples that Solomon built for his pagan wives;
And he built altars in the house of the LORD, also; 2Ch 33:7 And the carved image of the idol that he had made he set in the house of God, of which God said to David and to Solomon his son, "In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my name forever,

Jewish tradition tells us that Manasseh was the one who had the great prophet Isaiah to be placed inside a hollow log and sawn in two; which is referenced in Hebrews 11:37. His father had been greatly benefited by respecting this incredible prophet.

Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

But if that was an unthinkable sin, how does it compare to the next thing he did, in being used of Satan to wipe out the lineage of the Messiah;

[ Worse than a child molester?]
2Ch 33:6 And he burned his sons as an offering in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom,

This man was truly the essence of evil, no matter what generation or people you come from, and it just goes on;
and used fortune-telling and omens and sorcery, and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking him to anger.


2Ki 21:10-14 And the LORD spake by his servants the prophets, saying, Because Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols:

" And I will forsake the remnant of mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies."

http://www.christianforums.com/t7650477/

After all this, Manassah repented after some cruel discipline, and was restored by the Lord; Amazing grace, for sure.

sermonindex May 26, 2012

My heart goes out to both the perpetrator and the victims. To the victims it's senseless, it makes absolutely no sense to them why these things are done to them at all. Their hell is to continue living in frustration and confusion, they are damaged goods. I know what thats like, it ain't pretty.

To the guy that went to jail, he is no different than us, for him though, he got caught, while the most of us got away. Perhaps we didn't do what he did, but we've done other sneaky stuff that were not proud of.

This goodness from God was him being caught and carted off to jail. He needed to be apprehended lest he'd continue on hurting more innocent lives. He may be in jail but his damage is lifelong in the lives that he has hurt. Though he may be getting what he deserves, what he deserves is to be restrained. If he truly belongs to God he will come to himself in the pigpen of despair, God will grant him repentance.

It's an awful feeling of being out of control when it comes to sexual immorality, the driving power to commit this crime overwhelms the person. The thing that he may have hated he was constantly doing. It's an awful state to be in.

May God have mercy on him and those that have been affected by his sin. Those poor girls, such tender minds violated.

G
ginnyrose May 27, 2012

dkr777,

I understand your concern for this pervert - it is a legitimate concern. How can a person who knew the WORD do such a horrific thing? Can God redeem him? This is as I would understand your question.

Now, I would like to focus on the victims - FIVE girls under the ages of 13. FIVE! get that! FIVE young girls!

Ever consider the damage he did to these FIVE girls? He killed something in each and everyone of them. He did it! He killed their innocence! Not only that, he made it very difficult for them to relate properly to males; this difficulty will be carried over into the marriage relationship! No kidding! These girls will have a very hard time relating sexually to a husband, even if he is loving.

Yes, this pervert killed something in these innocent girls. Does he care? Does he even begin to realize the damage he inflicted upon these girls? Can he ever begin to internalize this? Or, is he only sorry because he gets free room and board for 19 years and has to jump and walk when someone else tells him to?

Does this man realize how repulsive he is to other females/mothers? Does he realize that his sin has earned him the mistrust of females? the disgust of females out there who know him? Or, is he only sorry for the disadvantages that came his way because he got caught?

For the victims, it will take an supernatural intervention by the Holy Spirit to heal the scars inflicted upon these girls AND it will take time.

Yes, God can forgive but he must realize the depth of his sin and work to heal the damage he inflicted upon them. This work will be much more difficult then the pleasure he ever derived from playing out his sexual fantasies.

My response is one shared by my female friends. It is not just me...

K
KingJimmy May 27, 2012

It is interesting. My older brother pastored a church where a child molester got saved. The man had gone to prison for many years. He was released, and naturally, his family was not there to celebrate his release. He couldn't find a job. And shortly thereafter, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer that would later take his life. But being broken and destroyed, he came to powerfully know the Savior. Glory would come to mark that man's life, and he was beloved by the church there. I am glad to have met him a few times. His life became a testimony to the change our gospel can truly make in the lives of others. A change which psychologist tell us is impossible for a child molester to experience.

sermonindex May 27, 2012

Ever consider the damage he did to these FIVE girls? He killed something in each and everyone of them. He did it! He killed their innocence! Not only that, he made it very difficult for them to relate properly to males; this difficulty will be carried over into the marriage relationship! No kidding! These girls will have a very hard time relating sexually to a husband, even if he is loving

Sister GinnyRose your passion and focus is real and it is shared by many, both male and female.

In every tribe and tongue this crime is carried out, sometimes in the full visibility of authorities as well as male and female witnesses. The ancient world, much of which is recorded in Scriptures, consistently failed to resist it, and its effect was not always to produce ‘victims’ but in the end willing participants. I am not lying. Jezebel the daughter of a king, and wife of a king of Israel was not Jezebel without good reason. Her perverse willingness to always overthrow authority has as much to do with this crime as a king who is willing to take a child into carnal knowledge.

I realise that this is like walking into a fire, but it has to be said. The real instigator of this crime is Satan and not male or female. Countless millions of children are brought into carnal knowledge throughout the world and the deep purpose of it is to destroy lives. To rob and steal and to make ruin. Regardless of whether the visibility of this crime is seen as predatorily male, it is a crime against God as well as children. In this sense God Himself speaks for and is the avenger of children. This man should be in a state of complete terror concerning what God will do to him, if he is not granted repentance. Only God knows his heart and so only God in the end can judge whether the prayers of His servants to redeem him, are able to be answered. Without Christ most men would happily take such a man and cut him to pieces. And yes many men would do so in a fearful knowledge of the very same condition of lust which they know flickers across their minds at some time or other. Such as these, would exact the punishment to expiate the knowledge of their dreadful nature, fearfully. If this is seen only as hypocrisy and not a fleeing from a terrible knowledge, then the deeper and more dreadful reality of this crime is lost.

In Christ, the same dreadful nature is fled from by fleeing to the cross with a groan of deliverance. Every man who takes the name of Christ should understand this if he has a need to understand it. Some understand it because they themselves; including this man, have been abused and are as this world understands it, a victim. But to see this and not the more dreadful reality that it is Satan who is pleased with these things, then even the victims become the abusers. My own daughter is my own testimony in this regard as are the children of many who have been abused. This is God’s doing for which we are immeasurably grateful.

Andrew

sermonindex May 27, 2012

He killed their innocence!
And who killed his?

sermonindex May 27, 2012

Having almost gone into the psych-field before I came to learn His Word - I've always noticed how His Word never goes into the sop of excuses of what 'supposedly' makes a person sin and defile others - especially when discussing any that 'lead' in the Church.
No psychological excuses - Just a lot of "sin not [period]" instructions to those professing Christ.

eta - as a matter of fact - if this happened in my Church - I would keep a distance from those that leaned toward "sympathy" for the abuser and didn't handle this in a Biblical manner. I don't see "sympathy" for the sexually immoral in His Word.
This man may or may not be able to repent. Romans 1 is still a possibility, which is being given over to reprobate.
No one will know if sincere repentence and forgiveness has taken place until the end.
That's why we're told to "keep ourselves" and why the State keeps a file on these people for the rest of their lives.

This discussion is locked.

Archived
1 of 68 posts