The Charismatic movement; God's blessing and gifts without Repentance.

In the mid 1960's, a strange phenomena swept the World. Roman Catholics began to speak in tongues. Large extra-church meetings were charged with sweeping worship in other tongues. It seemed pervasive, and in America, it took hold from coast to coast.

The "Charismatic" revival was born. Charismatic simply means "Gifts of Grace", and speaking in other tongues is one of them. Out of this movement the great TV ministries were born; TBN,and CBN the foremost, publicizing in real time this exciting force.

Everyone was accepted, and this was the first time in church History that EXPERIENCE was the fulcrum of orthodox acceptance. EXPERIENCE TRUMPED HOLY DOCTRINE. If you spoke with other tongues, you were accepted into the brotherhood of Christ Jesus. The Pentecostal churches had backed themselves into a corner by proclaiming that Speaking in tongues was THE sign that you were of the one and only true gospel, and could not backtrack; Everyone was "IN" who did.

One Pentecostal leader, quipped; "What the Church held sacred for 1900 years, HOLY DOCTRINE, was annihilated in one generation, by the Charismatic Ecumenical Renewal!"; which is generally simply understood as The Charismatic Movement.

Ecumenical means that all religions lead to the same God; Allah is Jehovah is Buddha is Hindu is Mormon; Rick Warren's gospel. There are some in Roman Catholic bondage who did "Come out of Her!", and clung to the Word, as Luther and company....but many, many did not, and ideologically accepted never-the-less as as a valid arm of the holy Church of Christ.

I remember the outrage I felt as Pat Robertson of CBN went on and on Eulogizing Pope John Paul as A "great and awesome man of God!" I wanted to vomit. Today, I see the devil's foot prints following this attack, everywhere. The venerable Billy Graham covenant with the Vatican to stream in Catholic converts in his vast World-wide harvest BACK to Rome...and he did.

The same with Youth with a Mission, and Campus Crusade for Christ, and other large "mission based" movements. These are not churches, as the bible defines them. They are "movements", and the holy doctrines and mandates outlined in the Gospel of the Apostles is either taken or not, willy nilly, according to it's benefit for the organization, and strategies for their own perceived prosperity.

Also, from here, the "Prosperity Doctrine" took hold, and the teachings of Kenyon , a New age philosopher were embraced. Kenyon believed that man could and should control his own destiny, and learn to succeed by speaking his own dominion; pure Transcendental witchcraft, but adapted by so many....and THE WORD OF FAITH heresies were formed. These were highly touted on the TV Charades of TBN...and the false prophetic teachers arose, like Copeland; [a student of Kenneth Hagin ].

Hagin says:

Many Word of Faith teachers have sought to emphasize the full meaning of the believer's status as a child of God (through Christ) by using phrases such as "little gods" to describe them, a practice that has garnered some criticism from some other segments of the Christian community.

Kenneth Hagin wrote that God "made us in the same class of being that he is himself," and that the believer is "called Christ" because "that's who we are, we're Christ!"

According to Hagin, by being "born again", the believer becomes "as much an incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth". Hagin like Kenyon reasons that that humans are made in God’s image. Since God is spirit, then humans must essentially be spirit as well and ‘in God’s class’, and thereby ‘gods’.

Kenneth Copeland says Adam was "not a little like God ... not almost like God ...", and has told believers that "You don't have a God in you. You are one." ..".Wiki.."

This attack has cost possibly tens of millions their souls, and yet today does it reap. The prophetic movement, a gaggle of liars, the Apostles [ NAR ] and just plain old money grubbing liars have emerged to clean up, providing sensationalism and the Experience of the exciting experiences of THE GIFTS OF GRACE. [ yet they are still real....these are counterfeit.]

It is a gospel without a Cross, without transformation to the living image of Christ; Happiness and Prosperity fueled by pride and the best life now with a successful purpose.

God's way is different. It is welded to the Scriptures and which is obtained one and one way only. Repenting of our satanic way, dying to it by obedience to Him, and following the Lamb where-ever He leads us individually in Love.

This is Biblically mandated and enforced , if you will, by a unprofessional plural staff of shepherds within a local church setting; not a movement that may deny the Bible or choose it's own agenda...whichever is most advantageous for them.

Follow the Lamb who agrees with His Word. This is the safe anchor to our soul.....Tom

agree with you , BrotherTom, and it is still the same today in the pentecostal arena; its all show and no Word, all flash and no doctrine....

"hi,please stop the criticism of all the pentacostal churches. you have not been in 1% of them and know little or nothing about what is going on around the world.

"millions of africans, chinese,central and south americans,cubans arecoming to know Jesus because of the zeal of the Holy Spirit and His followers.as len ravenhill would say, go into the woods and don't come back until you are filled with the Spirit with all that comes with it."jimp________________________________________________

This Thread is posted on the "Revivals and church History Section, if you will notice. It refers to events that changed the face of Christianity that began about 60 years ago, that planted the seeds of much, much error and deception.

It is as though in the midst of a true Revival that also began around that time, the devil was at work too, as I have submitted and outlined in my base thread. "The Charismatic movement; God's blessing and gifts without Repentance" is the title of this thread.

I am a little dumbfounded on "how" you made the leap from this path, of my original idea, to... "stop the criticism of all the Pentecostal churches. you have not been in 1% of them and know little or nothing about what is going on around the world."...Unless..you did not read it, or you could not understand it.

I am a Spirit filled brother, and speak in tongues in my intercession life and worship life [ secretly I hope ] as continually as possible. I have not been in 1% of the churches around the Earth, not, 10,000th of 1% probably, but I have offered my meager and weak service preaching Christ Crucified where He has never been heard in power.

I have travelled to China, India,Israel to minister and am on my way to Africa; I have seen those saved who formerly did not believe, repent and believe, and filled with the Holy Spirit with the laying on of my hands. I have seen the demon possessed delivered, and filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in sweet tongues of praise and dance with joy upon deliverance.

I guess I am Pentecostal,but I prefer "Christian", as I fellowship all, without prejudice, regardless of denomination or "movement." I love the church, and all who have been saved and as the thief on the Cross, believe upon His Name. They are mine, and I am theirs.

I am very happy that Christ is being glorified in your city and in your fellowship; it sounds wonderful.

I simply and pointing out that SOME have embraced a gospel that is NOT based upon Repentance and Faith towards God, but teach that knowing God is about our personal prosperity and happy well being, and that we can create this "blessed" destiny by our own abilities. This is a lie, and will carry you to Hell, not Heaven.

It is far beyond classic Pentecostalism; It has spread throughout the Earth into every stream of true Christianity, and has been a major part to set the foundation of "The Great Falling Away" in these last days. It is terrifying to me, and sobers me greatly when I see the subtlety of it; the Leaven of the Myst that speaks of God as if we could use Him to exalt ourselves. It is evil.

The man answered and said to them, well, here is an amazing thing that you do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes. We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God- fearing and does His will, He hears him. Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind. If this man were not from God, He could do nothing. They answered him, you were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us? So they put him out.

Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, Do you believe in the Son of Man? He answered, Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him? Jesus said to him, You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped Him. And Jesus said, For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind. Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, We are not blind too, are we? Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, We see, your sin remains.

All the miracles of Jesus had two purposes according to this Scripture above. They are both revelations:

The first was to reveal judgment of God to men. The blind man had done nothing wrong. Yet he was blind. In restoring his sight Jesus showed that God is a just God. Before this miracle the blind in sight were simply blind without hope or understanding. The Pharisees taught that illness and blindness, as well as misfortune were evidence of sin. They burdened their hearers with the belief that their sicknesses were proof of their sinfulness. This is what today’s “healers” teach! On the one hand they say “I have a ministry of healings” and when men don’t get healed they say “your sin has robbed you of faith to believe”. This is the Lord’s meaning of being a Pharisee. Burdening other men rather than judging rightly. Healing is an evidence of God’s judgement in Christ own body. This judgement is the only basis for healing others.

The second revelation given in this Scripture above has to do with the “revealing” that Jesus was divine. To the Pharisees this healing should have given them all the proof they needed that this Jesus was indeed the Christ of God. Only Jesus Himself and those He empowered could heal men of their affliction ahead of the cross. After the cross, healing is on the same basis, but it is realised after true repentance. If miracles replace true repentance then you have what we see today. Only the Son of God could forgive sins and heal men of their weaknesses and afflictions. The Pharisees DID understand this because when Jesus forgave men their sins and healed them, they accused Him of blasphemy. Being like God.

The word which Jesus spoke in contrast was to Peter “the word of Life” became to the Pharisees a hidden thing. Jesus began speaking in parables in order to hide this Word from the Pharisees, because in knowing who Christ was, yet they accused Him of labouring in the power and authority of Satan. It is only after this blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven are given. These keys are the preaching of the gospel unto life, and baptism, which is burial unto resurrection and the walking in newness of life.

What constitutes a Pharisee today may be more subtle than we imagine. It may not simply be a walking about in public places to be seen. It may be a burdening other men with the grievous knowledge of sin; yet without lifting a finger to bear the burden. Or it may be a failure to come to true repentance so that we are able to bear one another's sins, in love. The mercy of God for this man was not only that he was once blind, and could see. It was that having been blind of sight he was able to see Jesus and hearing the words “, Do you believe in the Son of Man? He answered, Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him? Jesus said to him, You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” Thereby he worshiped the Son of Man: even Christ.

In contrast the Pharisees asked “are we blind also” to which Jesus answered “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, We see, your sin remains”.

Andrew

I also wonder if this isn’t borderline blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.... for someone who claims to be filled with the Holy Spirit to take sides and be judge and jury of other brothers and sisters (baptism in the Spirit) that they don’t have the same Holy Spirit that you have JUST because they are a Catholic.

Witch doctors in Africa, and all sorts of cults and false religions in Asia practice speaking in tongues. So do some Mormons. It's not unique to Christianity, except for the fact that we have the only real one when it's genuine.

Tongues prove nothing. I know of Catholics who pray in tongues to Mary. Or they babble. Be it psychological or demonic, I'm not sure, but since they don't even have the real faith in the real Jesus, one can hardly say they have the real Holy Spirit. That's MUCH closer to blasphemy any day of the week.

And even if they're speaking in an intelligible language, it doesn't mean that it's from the Holy Spirit and not demonically inspired. I know a guy who was in a service once where someone stood up in the midst of the service and gave a word in tongues, and there was a traveling missionary from China who then stood up and told the congregation that the language was in a Chinese dialect that he was familiar with, and the man had just been cursing and blaspheming Jesus in Chinese.

No, tongues is most certainly not the barometer to see if one is genuinely filled with the Holy Spirit.

Judging based on someone not fitting into a religious tradition mold that matches our own is dangerous, yes. Judging with a righteous judgement according to how the Bible outlines faith, spiritual giftings, and even repentance is BASIC BIBLICAL DISCERNMENT. It does not bother me in the slightest to say that Catholics that "speak in tongues" are either deceived, demonically influenced, just speaking nonsense, or any combination of the above. They're most certainly not filled with the Holy Spirit, because if they were, they would have gotten out of Rome.

Oh, and by the way, keep telling it like it is BrotherTom. Even though you're getting backlash, your post was not in error, and I'm very glad you have the discernment and care to keep putting up articles of this style. God bless you for your stand in putting the TRUE GOSPEL at the center, like always.

I'm not saying that you cannot be a born again Christian and be a Catholic. However, I am stating that you cannot be a born again Christian and REMAIN a Catholic. God requires them to come out. Not to remain in mass, and participating in blasphemous sacraments, and bowing down to idols, etc.

Can God pour out His Spirit into someone in the Roman Catholic church? Most certainly! And shortly after they're going to leave. What they're not going to do is force the Holy Spirit to bend to the will and tradition of a blasphemous false religion.

Consider these:

A Christian, Spirit filled Buddhist.
A Christian, Spirit filled Muslim.
A Christian, Spirit filled Hindu.
A Christian, Spirit filled Satanist.
A Christian, Spirit filled Voodoo practitioner.
A Christian, Spirit filled Mormon.
A Christian, Spirit filled Catholic.

We wouldn't buy the validity of the first five (and hopefully not the sixth, though times are changing), but the seventh we feel a little more comfortable with, even though their religious establishment is just as lost and deceived as any one of the prior six.

Would the Holy Spirit have anything to do with one who decided to follow a mixture of any one of the first six?

What makes a mixture of the seventh all of a sudden so acceptable?

Is it because they use some of the same words and jargon as we "born agains" do? So do the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Should we turn a blind eye and let them into the club too? I mean after all, they've technically probably got more doctrine in line with us than the Catholics.

And I agree, God loves the Catholics and desires that they come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. However that doesn't mean that if we want to reach them that we sacrifice truth for the sake of love. The two are not somehow mutually exclusive. It's the fact that we love them that we even tell them the truth. Kind of like if you were a doctor and you didn't want to tell your patient they had bone cancer because they might be turned off from wanting anything to do with you, and in turn getting a reputation as a doctor that "only gives out bad news" no matter if it's just the plain truth. There's a cure, but first one has to be told that they're sick.

P.S. No harsh tone or anything remotely offensive (or defensive)is meant. I'm just speaking rhetorically. Text can be rather difficult to communicate that in.

Lisa I think Tom needs a break from policing everybody and everything. He could be such a blessing in the Lord to so many if only his criticism of everybody else didn't rule over him so much. Rbanks.

Is Tom a policeman? Does he really think he is policeman? A policeman is sworn to uphold the LAW. Cuts across the paradigm just a little. Tom is not seeking to uphold the LAW he is speaking about a reality of history. Not an idea. He is speaking about deception and its consequences.

Who would have suspected that a narrative about someone being challenged for a receipt at a Walmart exit would contain such spiritual value! Blayne.

Mirth is for children not older men and certainly not for God’s elect. Laughter is easy it in the flesh. Its natural and comes upon us suddenly. Truth is more difficult to grasp. No spiritual value blayne just mirth. You said so!

We've always had spiritual street sweepers among us; those who piously self-appoint themselves as guardians of the spiritual journey. But your comments here reveal something far more treacherous. Not satisfied with being merely a spiritual street sweeper, you now have appointed yourself as a spiritual executioner. Blayne.

Hi Tom you said and then ripped him to pieces. You called him treacherous, self appointed (which is to say FALSE) and a murderer. If that is a measure of true faithfulness and brotherly love blayne then there really is nothing to say.

the priest in charge said i know there is no way to the Father but through Jesus but that is a rosary if you have forgot.the preaching was biblical and the worship was wonderful with a strong visitation from the Lord. very little talk about the church.in fact the religious church people hated it.many were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. Jimp

This same “spiritually” minded priest also believes in Mary the Mother of God. Not Mary, “blessed art thou amongst women”. And a man the “Holy Father” and not the Holy Father which Jesus prayed to and taught the disciples to pray too. He also believed in a “bloodless sacrifice” for the remission of sin. And not the shed blood of Christ. Neither did he understand that “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin”. Or else he was not a priest of Rome. Rome would not have been in this move if Rome had not agreed the terms in advance. It is a matter of record written in the blood of millions. Dr Graham is a doctor of Rome. It’s a fact. Those who were saved at his preaching were filtered and those who were RC in origin of their progeny were given back to Rome.

Regardless of our opinions or the facts of history, which are in any case entirely worthless, Truth is firstly comprehended from Scriptures and not from history. On the other hand lies and deception are discerned both in time and, space and are born witness too by the Holy Spirit throughout history. There is nothing new under the sun. All is vanity. Now am I become a policeman, a murderer, false and treacherous? By the same measure it must be so! Perhaps the Lord will grant me a sense of humour to cover it all up.

Andrew