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Questions on the OT Law...

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Trekker Jun 2, 2012

Tonight, reading in Leviticus again. And can't figure out the discrepancy in judgement as prescribed in Leviticus 20:14and Leviticus 20:27 just for an example.

Leviticus 20:14 says that if a man take both a wife AND her mother it is wickedness and they were to all be burnt with fire.

But in Leviticus 20:27 it says that if a man or woman has a familiar spirit or is a wizard(aka witch or warlock, etc)they shall be stoned to death.

What puzzles me is why one is prescribed stoning and the other to be burned with fire. Anyone know why the difference? If anything i would have expected that the one practicing witchcraft would be the one that should be burned, as such persons were usually devil possessed. So i find this rather surprising and peculiar.

Anyway, just wondering...(and yes i do know that we are under the New Covenant now and that burning and stoning people is no longer in effect...even though in many cases it probably should be IMO...)

P
proudpapa Jun 2, 2012

I have no Idea but good question. I Love it when people cut past the surface when it comes to scripture.

G
ginnyrose Jun 2, 2012

I can only guess, drawing my observation from human nature...

Stoning requires corporate effort by the community. When a person is stoned many will participate...perhaps this is to impress upon the people how serious this sin is? and to abstain from entertaining any suggestion of its legitimacy? I think many moderns are not horrified much by it unless something gruesome happens like it did recently in Miami, FL.

But the burning? I do not know except that it is horrible. With the sentences being so severe this should put some fear in its observers. But then I wonder how often it was carried out? Read the prophets and then you wonder.

Seems to me that these judgments demonstrates God's hatred for these sins, hence the severity of the sentences.

One other observation: these sins were premeditated, they were not acts of carelessness due to human nature. Maybe this is the point God is working to impress upon the people - the seriousness of premeditated sin?

My thoughts...what are yours?

sermonindex Jun 2, 2012

"burning and stoning people is no longer in effect...even though in many cases it probably should be IMO...)"

This must be the most shocking thing I have heard on this site. Are you serious?

T
Trekker Jun 3, 2012

QUOTE: ""burning and stoning people is no longer in effect...even though in many cases it probably should be IMO...)"

This must be the most shocking thing I have heard on this site. Are you serious?"===KRAUTFRAU


Well, after what has been going on the past few days with demon possessed killing and cannibalizing other people (as in the Baltimore case university student killing a fellow student and eating his heart and brain, and the man who ate another man's face...YES, i am serious. Just like GOD was serious.

Locally we have had a number of child predators...one man strangled a 3 rd old and 4 yr old...etc etc. THERE IS NO LAW. Child predators should all be put to DEATH but instead they are let out to reoffend time after time!

R
RobertW Jun 3, 2012

Jewish sources as well as commentators such as Keil and Delitzsch suggest that 'burning' was used to aggravate the punishment of stoning, the corpse(s) being burned after execution (Joshua 7:25). This was also the case in Lev. 21:9 and Gen. 38:24. Other than the example of Joshua 7:25 there is no biblical record to indicate whether and how judicial executions were ever carried out by burning. It is highly unlikely that the people were burned alive. (K&D)

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UntoBabes Jun 3, 2012

The only thing I know about the use of stoning instead of other methods of killing was that it allowed for no contact with the offender for sanctification purposes.

In wichcraft perhaps it was considered by God that whoever touches them was partaker of the offence or unclean.

these verse are from Exo 19 and they show that God specified stoning or shooting with an arrow and not touching the offerder when God decended on the mountain when He gave them the law.

"12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount."

B
Blayne Jun 3, 2012

Hi! Trekker
I'm jus' hurriedly droppin' in to add this comment concerning your question:
The Old Testament saints lived with a veil cast over their eyes because the Gospel of the invisible Kingdom was not pronounced until the arrival of Jesus. They lived and walked before God within shadows of reality. By that I mean, they expressed their walk with God in and through activities centered on earthly matters and within earthly forms.

For instance, in the Old Testament days capital punishment was the single option within the shadows. But when Jesus appeared, He revealed the true origin of evil; that man himself was not the evil one; rather it was the devil. Therefore, Jesus delivered men from their oppressors and set the captives free.
For instance, Jesus simply told the adulterous woman to sin no more; even though it was a capital offence under the Law. In this way Jesus caused the realities of the Gospel of the Kingdom to make obsolete the dispensation of shadows.
The nation states (governments) of our day have insufficient Spirit to deliver men from their evil inspirations; they are unable to deal with the powers instigating man. The only option remaining is to imprison the offenders.
However, some governments insist on something more excessive than pursuing necessary community protections (imprisonment) and choose to execute the sinner/criminal. This is more in keeping with revenge than community safety.

Concerning the difference between "burnt with fire" and "stoned to death":
There were particular sins/activities in Old Testament times which were so utterly grievous to the well-being of God's people and community that the offenders had to be executed. There was no other effectual measure by which to remove them from the community.
Both these punishments are visible images of invisible realities. We could perhaps call them symbols of what was occurring in the unseen world ... or a 'parable'.
When fire is the means of execution, this is an image pointing to the consuming powers of darkness. Example of New Testament equivalent: "So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord", (1Cor 5:5).
Death by stoning is an image of the wrathful powers from the realm of Death. Example of New Testament equivalent: "Then they will say to the mountains, 'Fall on us!' and to the hills, 'Cover us!'", (Luke 23:30). Revelation also alludes to this: "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne", 6:16.

Speaking of shadow and reality:
You would agree that, when God created the world and everything in it, He declared that everything was good. This pronouncement of God no doubt included the animal world.
So, the question arises:
What happened to cause the situation of the Old Testament peoples having to differentiate between clean and unclean animals? Didn't God create and pronounce all His creation as good/clean in His sight?
Here again is an illustration of shadows and reality.
In the Old Testament, clean and unclean animals were a visible image to reveal/depict the invisible reality ... of good and evil angels. The people of the Old Testament were following after the earthly shadow of having no contact with unclean powers/angels.
"And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common", (Acts 10:15).
In the previous verse of 11 the "heavens were opened"; meaning to say that Peter's faith was activated to perceive "the evidence of things unseen" which removed the remnant of the Old Testament thought-world which had been as a veil covering his 'spiritual' eyes.


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by Trekker on 2012/6/1 22:20:43

Tonight, reading in Leviticus again. And can't figure out the discrepancy in judgement as prescribed in Leviticus 20:14and Leviticus 20:27 just for an example.

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