If you are having doubts about your salvation...
Then you're an unbeliever right?
Because doubt is unbelief.
God says everyone that believes is justified (Acts 13:39).
You're saying, "I believe but I might not be justified".
So you're calling God a liar.
"He that believes not God has called God a liar". 1 Jn 5:10.
Andrew Christopher Bain
http://Godnoliar.com
You can have the least possible amount of doubt about your salvation and not be saved.
It all depends on how one defnines "believe."
A person may have no doubt whatsoever that they are "saved" because 30 years ago they raised their hand during a church service to "accept Christ" or they may have even went forward at a Billy Graham crusade. However, this sense of security does not = actual security.
I believe the Bible teaches security for the believer, not the unbeliever. And yes, I believe a person can be a believer at one point in their life and an unbeliever at another point. You can be in the vine, or off the vine, or in the branch, or off the branch.
Once again, it hinges on how one defines "belief."
Hi Andrew,
I wish you the best in understanding more of Gods word concerning grace and mercy. The law brought no one to the Lord, the blood of Jesus went back through time to the first Adam to bring about salvation.
To whom much is forgiven there is much love. I have been forgiven much and so understand grace better than some because I did not deserve Gods grace and that is why it is grace. I am not talking about greasy grace which allows for sin and pardons it without repentance.
If you look into scripture in the new testament alone and see who doubted then you will have to consider whether they all lost their salvtion at that time. A doubt is a normal part of Christianity as I understand it, we have several adverseries. Satan said to Eve "hath God said", when Jesus was tempted Satan misquoted scripture. It is like saying that we are sinning if we are tempted.
If we doubt due to seeing our own carnality or for some other reason, maybe a death in the family then we are balancing the matter untill we decide wether to believe or not, this is what matters surely. I know some of my brothers and sister may be tormented by thoughts and doubts i pray that the Lord releases you of this. remember we have three enemies the world the flesh and the devil all of which can be the sorce of doubt.
You may not agree with this position however i would ask that you take a fresh look at it from the position of the entire scripture. It would appear that most if not all christians doubted between the cross and the resurrection, do you think that they all lost their salvation because of that doubt?
Obviously I am taking the postion that your statement of an unbeliever is one who is separtated from the grace of God and therefor not saved. Maybe I do not fully understand your postion. I trust you have a rewarding time of study should you chose to look at this afresh.
Kind regards
By the way we tend not to use our names because of potential issues from those not looking for peace and encouragement.
You can have the least possible amount of doubt about your salvation and not be saved.
Good Point. I know a frequent poster here who has zero doubt about his salvation, who is much elder in age but I am absoultely sure he is not saved. Proof, personal testimony after coming to Christ has nothing common with life of Jesus and there is no desire in him to repent as well. No desire to apologize if he has hurt someone etc. How can this man be saved?
It is my view that this original post can be a set up to judge people unnecessarily. It presupposes that if someone is a Christian and yet goes through some hard times and even to the point of wondering of their salvation then they are not saved. Really? This is ridiculous yet did I interpret the original posting correct?
If I am to take it as it is it would tell me that I am not saved and even if I were to 'get saved' I would not be saved because doubtless I would wonder about it as my life travels on into the future. I see it as a dangerous form of fundamentalism and a through process that has damaged many who used to go to church at one time and fell away because of............
John
"Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief." The Apostle Thomas
Yes P777,
Then these righteous ones will reply," Sir, when did we ever see you hungry, thirsty, a stranger, naked, sick, or in prison?
Hi! GodnoliarDot
Ummmm, I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says that a person who comes under the stare of the accuser is somehow risking his Salvation.
These kind of accusatory ideas prompt needless anxiety and fear; especially for the young Christians among us.
While you were busy naming suspects who might be calling God a liar, did you know that God was awfully close to naming you an accuser of the brethern?
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Doubting Your Salvation? You're an unbeliever
by GodnoliarDot on 2012/6/6 1:18:05
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Quote:
"Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief."
I love this. It is so true-- we can believe- but at the same time have unbelief.
When the disciples were unable to cast out the demon from the boy who was being thrown into the fire etc, Jesus told them it was because of their unbelief. But obviously they had belief-- because they had cast out demons on prior occasions. But something about the way this particular demon was manifesting caused their unbelief to outweigh their belief.
Perhaps "unbelief" can be defined as alowing physical circumstances to counter our faith. It is not that we no longer believe in the Lord, or that he is not able to intervene, but sometimes we really get under our circumstances. That is what I call unbelief.
Thank you for your replies, gentlemen. Interested to know what you think of 2 Corinthians 4:6:
Because God who said, "Out of darkness Light shall shine," who shone in our hearts to give the brightness of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Imagine your standing outside in the sunlight, is it possible to doubt you are standing in the sun. Is it possible to have the Light of Christ in their heart and doubt?
Also, Jesus said believers will never thirst nor hunger...
"but whoever may drink of the water which I will give him will not thirst, never! But the water which I will give to him will become a fountain of water in him, springing up into everlasting life."-John 4:14
If a believer could lose their assurance, wouldn't they be thirsty but Jesus said they would never thirst so a believer could never lose their assurance.
GodnoliarDot
So according to the words you have posted it would seem to me that those who lived as Christians and strayed away from God and later came back to God are not saved because at one time they probably didn't know if they were saved or not. This is what I gather from the words you use. Would this be correct?
If I were to apply this to my own life then it will say to me that I am not a Christian because at one time in my life I killed myself inside and went through much darkness not wanting anyting to do with God, the church, Christians and anything within the christian world including radio. During the last few years my soul is being restored to a point although I am not 100% back to where I had been at one time. Yet, according to your words it seems I should really be an outsider looking in because I have no salvation. It really sounds to me like a bit of fundamentalism at its finest and possible A reason why many have left the church over the issues of law? This is just my opinion.
What do you think?
John
If a believer could lose their assurance, wouldn't they be thirsty but Jesus said they would never thirst so a believer could never lose their assurance.
I have adopted a definition of Faith.
Faith: right response to revelation.
How does that fit?
This is rubbish. I know plenty of people who have NO doubt that they are going to Heaven yet they are all UNsaved. Some are Universalists, some were Catholics (now dead but in Hell), are Catholics, etc. Doubt is the very seed of faith.
QUote:
"Doubt is the very seed of faith."
Good one! I like it.
Two men on opposite sides of the spectrum, one with never a doubt, and one with many a doubt.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/2004/issue81/10.34.html
The absence or presence of doubt is somewhat of a meaningless measuring stick with regards to entry to heaven (justification), however the absence of doubt does allow the Lord to do more work in and through an individual (sanctification). Doubters will go so far, but no more as they stop to watch those with no doubt go beyond.
Doubt would look at a, "Thou shalt not kill" and be afraid to go forward to sacrifice a son, because they have not a certainty that it was from God. Lack of doubt comes only from constant meeting with God to know Him and the way that He works. This is what allowed Abraham to do that which no other man has done, or what Joshua has done, or what Noah has done, etc.... They KNEW God personally each having met with the Son, they didn't just know of Him, but actually KNEW Him and could trust that which came from their meetings with Him.
OJ
Thank you for that post,
ws
Dear Mr Blayne, you wrote, "I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says that a person who comes under the stare of the accuser is somehow risking his Salvation."
Pls see 2 Cor 13:5.
"Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Or do you not yourselves perceive that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved [reprobate - KJV]?" (Green's Literal, 1976)
Mr Blayne - if you cannot perceive Christ in you, you are cast out and not saved.
If someone looks in their heart and wonders "Do I have the Gospel of Christ in me?". They don't. It's not there. That's why they are doubting.
Andrew Christopher Bain
http://Godnoliar.com
2 Corinthians 13, Green's Literal 1976
1 I am coming to you this third time . "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter shall be established." Deut. 19:15 2 I said before, and I say beforehand, as being present the second time and being absent now, I write to those having sinned before, and all the rest, that if I come again I will not spare, 3 since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but is powerful in you, 4 (for even if He was crucified out of weakness, yet He lives by the power of God). For even we are weak in Him, yet we shall live by the power of God toward you. 5 Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Or do you not yourselves perceive that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved? 6 And I hope you will know that we are not disapproved.
7 But I pray to God for you not to do evil, none; not that we may appear to be approved, but that you may do the good, and we may be disapproved. 8 For we cannot have any power against the truth, but on behalf of the truth. 9 For we rejoice when we are weak and you are powerful. But we pray for this also, your perfection. 10 Because of this, I write these things while absent, that being present I may not deal sharply with you according to the authority which the Lord gave me for building up and not for pulling down.
11 For the rest, brothers, rejoice! Perfect yourselves; encourage yourselves, mind the same thing, be at peace; and the God of love and of peace will be with you. 12 Greet one another with a holy kiss. 13 All the saints greet you. 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.
I guess John the Baptist is in hell then...
Bummer.
Jesus seemed to think pretty highly of him.
Hi! NateMarshall
It's astonishing to note the abundance of spiritual arson occurring in here.
There seems to be an inordinate amount of arsonists among us; all eagerly busy to incinerate the spiritual house of others.
It's one thing having to tolerate those earnest to publish the entire Tyndale Commentary Library, and quite another to wrestle with the venom of these fire-walkers.
Yes, NateMarshall, your observation is unfortunately correct; the fire-walkers have become so attached to the powers of false piety that they would have indeed struck the match to incinerate John ... and likely Stephen too.
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by NateMarshall on 2012/6/10 11:19:13
I guess John the Baptist is in hell then...
Bummer.
Jesus seemed to think pretty highly of him.
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Isn't it simply possible to see that it is one thing to doubt your salvation and another to say I don't believe in God and Christ. We all began in unbelief so we all have a testimony as to how we came to believe. Surly that testimony is built upon the foundation of God's revelation of Himself through Christ dying for us. It begins with conviction in some measure or other and ends with our being able to believe what before that we could not believe. Is this response to God's love the same in reverse by saying later on "I have now come to doubt my salvation?" You only have to sin in some persistent manner to come into such a doubt. If whilst in some besetting sin you really have no such doubt then you are showing that you may have not believed at all. In which case examine yourself.
To doubt ones salvation may simply mean that we doubt that we will somehow or other not enter the kingdom when it comes. Such a doubt is reasonable if we are truly living for ourselves and more especially if we persistently sin. This is not the same as saying "I call God a Liar". It may simply mean my conscience is troubled and I doubt that I will see God. Add to this the accuser who is very eager to take advantage of this condition and the flesh which immediately feels rejected you have a recipe for falling away. Let God be true though every man is proven a liar.
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