Soul and Spirit...and "Original Sin"

#11 – The majority of evangelical Christian teachers object to the distinguishing of “soul” and “spirit” in the makeup of the human being. Why do you consider it so important to differentiate between “soul” and “spirit”?

The earliest language of the Church was Greek, the language in which the New Testament was originally written. The earliest Christian writers who wrote in Greek (such as Clement of Alexandria, Origin, Gregory of Nyssa, etc.) made clear distinction between spirit and soul, between the spiritual and psychological function of human beings, indicating that the spirit was the means of relating to God; the soul was the means of relating to other people; and the body was the means of relating to the world around us.

When Augustine came to the fore in the 4th century, he was not proficient in the Greek language, and wrote in Latin instead. Augustine’s thought was greatly influenced by the dualism of Persian Manichaeism and of Christian Platonism. He thought only in terms of the duality of soul and body. His concept of “original sin” was that Adam’s sin caused a defective corruption of “human nature,” especially in the fleshly tendencies of sexuality, whereby all mankind became essentially evil.

He did not accept the spirit‐source (Satan) of sinful character, for the either/or duality reminded him of the dualism of Manichaeism. Slavishly following St. Augustine, most of Christian thought since the 4th century has adopted his psycho‐pneumatic merging of soul and spirit.

The failure to distinguish soul and spirit disallows the spiritual understanding of the scriptures. It tends to psychologize all spiritual realities (cf. William James – Varieties of Religious Experience).

Scripture connects the spirit of man with the presence of God:

Job 32:8 – “there is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives understanding.”

Prov. 20:27 – “the spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord” – where the light and fire of God are experienced.

The proper differentiation and distinguishing of soul and spirit, of psychological and spiritual function, is key to understanding most of the major doctrines of Christian thought.

It is the key to understanding Christian anthropology – how God made humanity, and how God intended to function within humanity.

It is the key to understanding sin – that the fall of man into sin did not create a defective or corrupt human nature that was inherently sinful.

It is the key to understanding salvation – that salvation is not just saving us from erroneous thinking, or from a sure slide into hell. By the “saving life of Christ,” we are made safe from satanically misused and abused humanity, in order to function as God intended by the presence of the Spirit of Christ in our spirit.

It is the key to understanding sanctification and the Christian life. The inner conflict of “flesh and Spirit” cannot be properly understood unless we differentiate spiritual and psychological function.

If we do not differentiate soul and spirit, we end up with a plethora of religious aberrations that are inadequate for sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ – psychological counterfeits of true spiritual worship – psychological principles of Christian behavior, rather than
“worshipping in spirit and in truth” (Jn. 4:24).

If soul and spirit are not differentiated, then Sigmund Freud is our savior! God forbid!

Taken from FAQS - http://www.christinyou.net/pdfs/FAQS.pdf

The failure to distinguish soul and spirit disallows the spiritual understanding of the scriptures. It tends to psychologize all spiritual realities (cf. William James – Varieties of Religious Experience).

Love this article brother, this is the bane of the institution masquerading as the the bride of Christ. This is a key issue that keeps folks from understanding the difference between walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Questions such as:

Is this the voice of the Spirit that I'm hearing or the voice of the old man?

Why is there an inner battle?

If someone takes up the only 'soul and body' position then there is not differentiation between conflicting internal opinions, it's all soul.

Thank the Lord that the Word is sharper and can divide:

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. ~Hebrews 4:12

Thanks again!

Hi! Learjet
So? When are you or Pilgrim777 gonna' start a Thread/Discussion defining the terms 'Soul' and 'Spirit'?
I think it would be a very interesting subject to explore between us all in here.
What yuh think? Who's gonna' jump in first?

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Re: Soul and Spirit...and "Original Sin"
by learjet on 2012/6/8 10:00:57
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Thanks for the feedback, Earl. Very encouraged that some are understanding that when the Word says our battle is not with flesh and blood, He really means it!

Blessings,
Pilgrim

I would love to Blayne, but I am stretched pretty thin right now. If one gets started I will contribute.

Pilgrim

This is one of my favorite stories in the bible. Our precious Lord traveled all the way across a stormy sea to set this ONE MAN free:

That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” 36 Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. ~Mark 4:35-36

Using this scripture the Lord has taught me a bit about soul and spirit:

They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. 2 When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him. 3 This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. 4 For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones.

6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7 He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” 8 For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you impure spirit!”

9 Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

“My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” 10 And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned. ~Mark 5:1-13

This man came from the tombs to meet Christ. He was obviously possessed by these spirits, so who controlled him when he came to the Lord? Obviously it had to be his soul because if it was the demons, they would have went in the other direction upon seeing the Lord of Glory stepping off of the boat.

The man's body (via the desire of the soul) walked to Jesus, the Lord renewed his spirit and set him free on the inside in his soul AND spirit.

When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid. ~Mark 5:15

SIDEBAR: This is an amazing verse and sad as well:

As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed begged to go with him. 19 Jesus did not let him, but said, “Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you.” ~Mark 5:18-19

BEGGED! This kind of grieved me until the Lord showed me that he went back to 'the 10 towns' later in His ministry, this fact is hidden because the scriptures use Gerasenes in one verse, and '10 towns' in the other verses, but the Lord went back! Guess who was waiting His arrival?

END SIDEBAR

Everywhere Jesus went He was casting out demons, EVERYWHERE. Yet today we don't hear much about it other than sensationalized stories in the media.

We need to ask the question to ourselves "Is this problem worse now, or better?" I would submit that it's much worse.

The bigger problem is that when people try to psychologize the Gospel, it essentially loses the power to set anyone free, you can't counsel demons out of a person.

Furthermore, a believer has to have revelation on who they are dealing with. Demons come wrapped in skin, attached to the spirits of men that look and act just like you and I until a discerning believer recognizes the source of a person's issues. Sometimes it's hard to recognize the source of the real problem, in Acts 16 it says that this demon possessed woman followed Paul and Silas for days:

She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her. ~Acts 16:18

My own personal belief is when Paul realized the source of the problem he knew how to deal with it and sent the devil on it's way.

Everywhere Jesus went He was casting out demons, EVERYWHERE. Yet today we don't hear much about it other than sensationalized stories in the media.

We need to ask the question to ourselves "Is this problem worse now, or better?" I would submit that it's much worse.

Hi Learjet,

I believe the problem is worse because the Devil has convinced Christendom that everything is the flesh.

True, we are to put to death the deeds (not sin) of the flesh and resist the Devil and he will flee.

But many are confused and are trying to either mortify demons or cast out the flesh.

Unless we understand the source, we will never know when something is flesh or spirit.

Some are beating themselves up mortifying the flesh when they need deliverance. On the other hand you have the camp that thinks everything is a demon and they are trying to cast out that which should be denied/mortified. You can't cast out the flesh. Satan has brought mass confusion through the doctrines of men.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh (not saying anything about resident sin), ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

We mortify the DEEDS (not sin) of the body. Deeds have to do with a choice. Sin in our body has nothing to do with choice. It makes us a hapless victim. We are not victims to a dual-nature and God has "given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." 2Pe 1:4

He did not corruption that is in us, but rather in the world.

We purify our souls in obeying the truth or walking after the Spirit or deriving our character from God by dwelling in Him and abiding in Him, eating of the Tree of Life.

The way to mortify the flesh is to abide in Christ.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

I don't go around thinking about how to mortify the flesh all the time. I keep my mind and heart on Jesus.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

There are only two spiritual sources we derive from, God or Satan and we cannot stand alone and be our own source. We have been made receptive creatures and not autonomous in the sense that we are spiritual creatures that MUST receive from another spiritual source. These are the parameters of the world we live in.

How do we resist Satan? We turn to the Lord, we submit to Him. That is how you resist Sin (Satan), by dwelling in God and drawing everything you are from Him.

Jas_4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

No mention about resisting sin, but rather the source of sin, who is the devil.

Remember, that the opposite of everything we do to attain life, (eating the True Bread that came down from heaven, abiding in Christ, walking after the Spirit, God as our Father, etc) is also true to those that end up in death. (Eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, abide in the Evil One, walking after the flesh, Devil as their father, etc).

People are not their own source and cannot act out of themselves. They either derive their nature and character from the Holy Spirit or the Unholy spirit.

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

They are saying that they were not born with sin because that is what fornication is. They are speaking of spiritual adultery. The Jewish people did not teach original sin.

Jesus did not say you are sinful because you have sin in you but that "YOU DO THE DEEDS OF YOUR FATHER". They are sinners because they choose to sin by listening to and obeying the Evil One.

It is the lusts of their father that they are doing.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, AND THE LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER YE WILL DO.

So, as you can clearly see the Pharisees and anyone else who is not abiding in the Lord are deriving their nature and character from the Devil.

Twice Jesus nailed it. You do the DEEDS of your Father and the LUSTS of your Father. He never said anything about sin in them. It comes down to who you choose to obey and receive from. Of course whatever is not of God is sin, so when we choose Satan as our spiritual source over God, we sin, because nothing about Satan is of God.

John 1:12 But as many as RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You are WHO YOU eat. (spiritually speaking). Whose table are we dining at?

Thanks for your contribution.

Pilgrim

Hi! Pilgrim777
I have a couple of questions please:

Why did you place " #11 " adjacent to your Post? Is there a series somewhere that you are referencing and that we can read?
Did you know that your provided Link is dysfunctional?
http://www.christinyou.net/pdfs/FAQS.pdf)

Now that those questions are out of the way, :)
Ummmm, as you've probably noticed, I've only been visiting here for a couple of weeks. I hardly know anyone; worse, I have a terrible memory for names.
Pilgrim777, I especially like your insight into Scripture. You write no nonsense kinna' stuff; scriptural, practical and rational.
I'm also in much agreement with LearJet's thoughts too about the origins of evil and have great affinity with what BroRaymond has discussed of his past as well, (in another Thread).

Ummmm, the need to recognize how the composite of man functions (spirit, soul and body) is becoming increasingly urgent for Christians in these days. Man was created to live his life in two worlds simultaneously; for this he has both a spiritual and a natural body. Therefore, our perception of things/events must also take place in two worlds: with spiritual and natural ears and eyes. This is in keeping with the verse saying, "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus".

We do not want to belong to those about whom Jesus said, that they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, Matt 13:13). We want to live as disciples of Jesus, of whom He says: "But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear". That is why we want to apply the gospel of Jesus Christ in all areas of life and to become fully aware of the realities in the spiritual world.

Anyways, from the very first day of being introduced to Jesus, I've been praying and trusting that He loved me enough not only to save me from my sins, but also to lead me to the truth about Him and of His plans and purposes.
Sadly, I never once suspected was that the more knowledge and experience I obtained about God and His faith in me, the more lonely my Christian journey-road would become.
There have been times when the surrounding nonsense pretending to be godly knowledge was so loud, that I jus' couldn't take it anymore and had to hide out as a Christian hermit. But God is good and He always warms our heart and soothes out disappointments and opens doors.

Thank you for participating in these Forums; you are a breath of fresh air to the weary as well as the joyful.

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by pilgrim777 on 2012/6/8 9:25:02

#11 – The majority of evangelical Christian teachers object to the distinguishing of “soul” and “spirit” in the makeup of the human being. Why do you consider it so important to differentiate between “soul” and “spirit”?
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Hi! Learjet
I read your comments here with great interest. Especially, your mention about the healing of the demoniac, (Luke 8:26-39).

The natural man, quite rightly, keeps himself far from this sinister demonic world but he is also powerless when it reveals itself. The simple or immature Christian who holds to the traditional ideas rather than put on the whole armour of God to wrestle against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly spheres, has stepped aside from the the commandment of Jesus; "In my name they will cast out demons", (Mark 16:17).

There is also a similar event which happened in Capernaum. This too is a story of a demon possessed man. We see very clearly the different approaches of the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament saints did not recognise the corrupt influences and decay which had entered into creation because they were demon blind. They did not have the ability to discern spirits.

Once the Lord commanded His people to drive the Canaanites out of their own country and chase them. The inhabitants of the target cities thought that they would be sufficiently strong to resist attack. However, such a city was taken and the inhabitants were killed.

This destruction is a visible image of an invisible reality: the hopeless resistance of the demons who were confronted by Jesus. They could have turned aside and fled away to avoid their judgement for a long time. They remained however because they under estimated the enormous power of the Holy Spirit. They thought that they could ignore the command of Jesus, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!".

They acted like the inhabitants of Jericho who, in spite of their fear, closed the gates and took the risk of a confrontation. We can learn from the story of the destruction of Jericho that in the battle we often have to surround such a city to make it fall. This means that we often have to bind those inhabiting powers to gain the victory.

A further look at the events at Gadarenes, we see that the unclean spirits which do not voluntarily flee will, as a punishment, be thrown into the Realm of the Dead; the prison where they will be tormented before their time. This means that they will be compelled to wait as totally powerless for the final judgement. Afterwards, they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The question might be asked, why did Jesus allow these demons to go into the herd of swine? Obviously, He wasn't intent on teaching the herdsmen the lesson that they were not allowed to keep unclean animals because the Gospel of Jesus, (Gospel of the Kingdom), declared all foods clean, Mark 7:19). In this story, Jesus gave us a valuable parable. From it we learn how the restoration of the creation will happen.

Everything having life/spirit) (plants and animals as well as men) is affected by the deviant powers of darkness and has come under decay and is more or less deformed. When Jesus cast out demons, He declared that then the Kingdom of God had come upon creation, (Matthew I1:28).

In the case of the demon possessed man of Gadarenes, Jesus entered the house of the strong and first bound the strong, then Jesus plundered his house by taking away his furniture. While in the visible world the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, in the invisible world, (the Kingdom of Heaven), the spirits of violence were thrown into the Realm of the Dead; much in the same way as what happened in the days of the Flood.

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by learjet on 2012/6/8 11:57:13
This is one of my favorite stories in the bible. Our precious Lord traveled all the way across a stormy sea to set this ONE MAN free:

That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” 36 Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. ~Mark 4:35-36

Hi Blayne,

Thank you for your kind reply. I will write more later but in the meantime try this: (I fixed the link)

http://www.christinyou.net/pdfs/FAQS.pdf

The whole doc is a very good read.

Blessings to you,
Pilgrim

Wow, I have alot to learn from you guys!

I was thinking the same about you, proudpapa. :-)

Seriously. I have enjoyed your posts. Please continue and do not be discouraged.

Pilgrim

Hi! Pilgrim777
an' anyone else who might be peekin' in on the Thread. :)

Yes, the Link works! Thanks! This is a HUGE read. But nevertheless it appears to be an excellent read and I'm sure that I'll discover treasures within it.
I'm going to return to reading it immediately after posting these comments:
About the spirit, soul and body.
I've been conducting self-notes about these terms for years now. After all, if we wish to follow after God, "with all that is in us", it becomes urgent that we become better acquainted about "what is in us"; what God has placed in man at his creation and how they are to function to His glory.
I've concluded that we can only fully answer God's intention for our lives by knowing the composite of man; the activities of conscience, mind, heart, spirit, soul and body.
For starters, I have some lengthy study notes about "conscience"; about what it is and how it develops and functions. I can copy/paste them to here if someone might be interested.

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by pilgrim777 on 2012/6/8 20:28:40
Hi Blayne,
Thank you for your kind reply. I will write more later but in the meantime try this: (I fixed the link)
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Hi! Pilgrim777 (: again :)

I just spent the very early morning hours reading the complete "FAQ's" PDF document. It is a VERY excellent read! I found myself nodding in agreement throughout most of his discussion/explanations.

Now, please. I don't wish it to distract anything from my opinion as stated above:
I think that even more additional portions have arrived to God's people in recent years which enhance and compliment the expressed foundations of the FAQ writer.

We now know much more about the 'substance' of God (for lack of a better word) ... and much more too concerning the spiritual body of God and also of the spiritual body of man. (Referencing "God is Spirit" and "It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body").

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the author may have addressed these matters at greater length in some additional writings of his.

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by pilgrim777 on 2012/6/8 20:28:40
Hi Blayne,
Thank you for your kind reply. I will write more later but in the meantime try this: (I fixed the link)
http://www.christinyou.net/pdfs/FAQS.pdf
The whole doc is a very good read.
======================

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the author may have addressed these matters at greater length in some additional writings of his.

Then, I would read probably read these two, next.

Towards a Christian Understanding of God
A study of God formatted with two premises:
"What God is, only God is." "God does what He does, because He is Who He is."
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/understandgod.html

Towards a Christian Understanding of Man
An anthropological study of how God created mankind.
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/understandman.html

Enjoy!
Pilgrim

Hi! Pilgrim777

I've fast-paced read the two PDF's. Although I enjoyed the reading and again agree with much what the author presented, I never discovered the points I was hoping to find.
I'm not at all disappointed 'er anything; I'm jus' stating the fact as I perceived it. As the popular saying goes, he seemed to have "come up a little short".

I was also having minor difficulty with some of the conceptual ideas which he has attached to the discussion about the 'trinity',(for lack of a better word).
Anyways, as I said, I VERY much enjoyed the reading of the three documents. They are exceedingly well written and clearly defined with scriptural basis. In every sense they were refreshing.

For instance, when I conceptualize "God is spirit", I express it as: the being of a spirit is covered in and surrounded by spirit. It could perhaps be also said expressed this way: The Holy Spirit is the immaterial/spiritual body of God which envelops His being/personality".

Whenever God says something, the bible sometimes refers to this as speaking of the mouth of the Lord, (Jer9:12), or as speaking of the Spirit of the Lord, (Ez 11:5). Luke says that Simeon receives a revelation by the Holy Ghost,(2:26).
When God oversees the world, the bible says, the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, (2Chr 16:9). When He works, the bible speaks of the arm of the Lord, the right hand of the Lord, or of the Spirit of the Lord. (Isa 51:9, Ps 118:15,16 & 1Sam 16:13).

With these biblical descriptions, an image of a body is clearly accentuated. When God sees, hears, speaks and works, He does so by His Spirit, with the spiritual eyes, ears, mouth, arm and hand of His spiritual body. God is a being, a person that appears in and by His spiritual body. The name 'Holy Spirit' indicates the spiritual body of God. Therefore, we could say that the Spirit of God is the spiritual body of God.

Having said that, we are better able to comprehend Paul's statement in Corinthians saying about ourselves, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body".
Because we Christians move and have our being in "heavenly places in Christ Jesus", we too have a spiritual body.

I guess I should also make mention my thoughts concerning our ascended glorified Jesus, but I don't wish to pester you with a long post. :)

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by pilgrim777 on 2012/6/9 5:34:26

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the author may have addressed these matters at greater length in some additional writings of his.