a soulish christan, watchman nee

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brothagary Jun 13, 2012

Text Sermons : Watchman Nee : A SOULISH CHRISTIAN

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Why is he a soulish Christian? We have seen how the cross works and how the believers' flesh, the sinful nature, has been crucified on it. However, the life of the soul still remains. Although all sins come from the flesh, and the soul is merely directed by it and acts as its puppet, the soul is inherited from Adam, and though not fully defiled, it is unavoidably affected by Adam's fall. It is true that there is a difference between the natural being and God's life. And though the filthy flesh within a believer has died, his soul remains the power behind his living. Although the nature of sin has died, the life of the self remains. Hence, inevitably, the man is still of the soul. Now, although the sinful nature, the flesh, has died, the soul remains the power behind man's conduct. In other words, although the flesh can no longer direct the soul, the soul remains the power behind man's living. Now that God's nature has replaced the flesh, naturally, all the inclinations, desires, and proposals should be righteous and no longer filthy as they once were. However, it is still the former soul-life that is executing the proposals and desires of this new nature.

This soul-life includes the mind, the emotion, the sensations, the will, and so forth. These functions (the mind, the emotion, and so forth) are the common possessions of the natural man. Hence, for one to depend on the soul-life to execute the propositions of the spirit is to accomplish the supernatural divine goodness through natural worldly strength. To put it plainly, it is to meet God's demand with one's self-power. At this point, on the negative side, a believer may have already overcome sin, yet on the positive side, he is still childish in practicing righteousness. There is the danger that he may fail to develop the God-given life of the Spirit which is already within him and to apply the life-power of this Spirit to execute all the dictates of the new nature. Actually, at this time, the spiritual life is still in the infant stage and is not yet mature; it is still incapable of expressing all the virtues in God's nature. This results in a believer trying by his own natural, soulish power to fulfill all the requirements God has placed upon His children. This walk and work is a mixture of the things of God and the things of man. It is to express the heavenly desire with the earthly strength! When a believer walks in such a way, he is not yet spiritual. Instead, he is soulish.

We have to realize that not all soulish experiences are evil or filthy. The flesh, insofar as the sinful nature goes, produces filthy and sinful things, but the soul is not necessarily like this. The soul-life is simply our original life, that is, the life that makes us a living creature. This life, once detached from the sinful nature, the flesh, may not always be evil in its thoughts. Many people have their original, inborn goodness, patience, love, and gentleness. These virtues come by birth. They are part of what the soul-life possesses. However, with some, these virtues are buried under the flesh and are not seen. Still some are not as blatant in the manifestation of their flesh. Their original virtues shine out a little more than others'. After a Christian has crucified his flesh, he is in danger of one thing: executing the new propositions of God's nature by the power of the soul-life. To speak plainly, this is to do good by our own strength. Such a one may be partially successful. This is exactly where he deviates. When believers find it effective to "exercise their self," they will think that they have reached spiritual maturity. They do not realize that they are doing good by the power of the soul. They may be doing good, but they are still soulish.

sermonindex Jun 14, 2012

We have to realize that not all soulish experiences are evil or filthy. The flesh, insofar as the sinful nature goes, produces filthy and sinful things, but the soul is not necessarily like this. The soul-life is simply our original life, that is, the life that makes us a living creature.(Nee)

Hello Brother Gary this extract from Nee's teaching ministry is a real blessing to read again. I first read it about 2 hours after I was saved. I can't say that at the time I understood much of it. In fact I wrestled with it for months and eventually put it down. I have read it several times since then and I have to say that I have always failed to gain an intellectual appreciation for this teaching. Knowing it in the spirit of wisdom is one thing and fine for oneself, but to intelligently understand it is a benefit for others does require an understanding mind. Herein lies a great difficulty and danger. I suppose it would be correct to say that an understanding of these distinction is better when it comes from an real and living experience of God Himself working in your life and through your life. Unfortunately if this does not happen then it becomes necessary to arrive at this wisdom by first gaining an understanding mind. Then practising or exercising that understanding in a sincere faith towards God both for ones self but especially for others.

Nee himself warned about having an intellectual experience of what he was teaching with regards to spirit, soul and body. In fact he regarded it as a singular danger to the believer to simply understand the distinctions being made and yet having no spiritual experience to know in a spirit of wisdom what these distinctions are when serving God. There is a real danger that this lack of discernment and wisdom will lead some at least to see what Nee taught as more mystical than spiritual. In this sense I think the danger is profoundly real because spiritual reality when understood through a spiritual looking glass, does in fact tend to mysticism. This would be a great loss for any one reading and desiring to benefit from Nee's ministry and a denial of Nee's own warning as to the dangers of knowing without the fruit of understanding coming from being led of the Spirit; which produces wisdom; yet tends to mysticism if not.

Mysticism is of itself a fruit of the soul, whereas spirit is of Spirit. Understanding is of the soul whereas a spiritual mind is wisdom.

The Lord Bless You Brother

Edited for Spelling

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brothagary Jun 14, 2012

this will probalbly take much time for me do digests ,,bit by bit

as does reading some of you coments andrew

tho i may be mingeled with reformed theoligy ,im blessed by read some of nees and your writings ,,verry much

are you saying that christan mysticism is soulish ,and not evil, or would you say it is

and hindo mystasism,,is this soulish but of a demonic origon

god bless you to brother

sermonindex Jun 14, 2012

Brothers

The word mysticism is very much misunderstood. The word basically means union with God and there are two types of mysticsm. One is the true union of the believer, and the experiences of such and the other is what non Christian religions understand by it, in the counterfeit experiences of worshipping demons.

In some ways these worshippers are nearer the mark than some believers, in that they fully submit themselves to their god but they become entirely passive. This is not the true way of the believer however as God requires our co-operation as Nee describes in the quoted passage, of having the power of working of the soul, come from a new source, that is, the Holy Spirit joined with our spirit, not engulfing it (union)whereas before it was the fallen spirit and decided itself what it should do.

Some Christian teaching moves dangerously close to passivity, not understanding the word union, where two become one but remain separate. This is the death to self teaching which Nee shows is not scriptural.

sermonindex Jun 14, 2012

are you saying that christan mysticism is soulish ,and not evil, or would you say it is...

I think the Sister has expressed the point very well. I would only add that what I have shared about the danger of mysticism has to do with the second of the two definitions which Krautfrau pointed too. So that one would have to say that mysticism attends to the very nature of the soul working independently of God, and what ever the soul has understood about God is thereby in danger of becoming demonic if it is exercised by any means other than through the Cross.

I also believe that even mysticism as expressed in the first clause of Krautfrau's post may prove useless to others if it remains a mystical experience. It is only beneficial to the man. If it is not translated into meaningful spiritual teachings which can be laid hold of by even the simplest of brethren it will prove useless. If it is expressly taught in a mystical way then it will stir the soul of others and become an opportunity to deluding spirits to have their way in the church. This is the birds in the many branches of the parable.

We need to remember that Jesus came to reveal mysteries not create new ones. He came to reveal the Father. He also came to do the works which demonstrated that He Himself was the Christ. He sent the Holy Spirit to lead men into all these things; which is to say the Truth.

Edited for Spelling

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brothagary Jun 15, 2012

yea i agree with you both

the defenition of mistasism is wide ,and one must no what one means when they say mystasisim

toungs to me seem like a mystacal union ,but if it doesnt edafie the rest of the body ,initself becomes a selfish experance

what about the union between a man and a women

i was speaking to my wife ,to night confessing my sin

and relised as a revalation ,that the only true marrage between man and womman,,comes from an anointing of the holy spirit ,,,,

where by instead of drawing effections and happyness,and good deeds from our spouse so to speak ,by our actions and peconcieved habits to do what we think will make them happy ,which is all the work of the soul ,

we move into the relm of the spirit ,

wherby instead of our or there happyness being drawns out by good works kind jesures ,and speaking gentily

our love for our wife and all others ,is drawn out purerly

by gods spirit ,wich flows as a river flows constent

from our spirit in to our hearts ,and into our minds

and out of our body

this love comes only through gods grace ,which is amercyfull love ,,based souly on gods character

this love is not to be flattered ,nor can it be drawn out by anything but gods love to us

we love him becasue he first loved us

and gods love to us through the body of christ

this is the love whereby we can truly love our god ,and nabiour ,and our precious wifes

o love the recordes no wroungs
o love that is not puffed up
o love that can do no evil
o love that believs all things

a love that expects nothing in returen

gods redemtive love

this we experance at our new birth

and at baptisim of his spirit

but must be cultavaited , by time

conviction

repentence ,a tearing down seceret idols

revalations of self and the soul

and denile of the efections of the soul

erenst prayer the night watch and the day watch

and even as the soul uses all the good gifts that come down from the heavenly

a denile of ministery and felowship and all comunacation that is done with the soul tho not has inherently evil
a forsaking of the blessings and libertys that god gives us ,and a seeking to bring our selfs down and denile of planly said selfish enjoyment of gods gifts

what ever it may be

and a seeking to look to christ as our spiritual spouse

and a seeking to give him the atention which is due him

and to love the giver of all gifts and libertys

as absaluty worthy of all our efection

till his love rooted and grounded in mercy

becomes our flowing new nature ,maturing in to the form of christs love ,,the love that he had for the world ,and for his bride ,

the is love is the unchanging expression of gods pesonality

a love that morns with mercy at the world of sinners
a love that rejoyece with fear and trembling and verment crys and tears to him wich is able to save our souls

and a deathly dieing love for our wifes ,that spirings from god abounding mercy in us

no more should we be satasifed with a spirit driven soul
that seeks to draw happyness and good works out of the people that we know

but a spiritual love that bypasses the soul

that good works are not as a filthy rag ,as a expersion
of woldly love ,thats motives are at its core self gratfieng

but a love and good works that is impressed with the powerfull presence of the spirit ,for the gratafing of the father and the son ,that is drawn out by the mercys of god him self ,and that inturn act and a chanel to chanel gods love into others soul ,, god plance his seed through us ,and revivel is at the tip of gods finger

flowing through a spiritual vesel ,wher by an awkening of varing degrees comes upon gods election ,and those that are not elect

sweet aromer unto life

the smell of death

wher by the blessing of those who are pesacuted ,becomes
a comon ,and glorafing experance

to whom much is givern

much is required

those who have tasted great antoing in the passed

are those who will be required
to come under greater conviction of of our soulish reaning self

and will be required as an adult to take up a heaver cross

and denie him self

and love not mother father ,or wife or husaban more then jesus

oh how i want christ to be fully formed in me

and in you brethern

and for our soul to lye submission ,under the power of gods mercy ,

rising only to be swiftly struck by the power of gods spirit

may the head of our adamic soul be brusied a fresh when he arises to expresses the remenance of adams human fallen soulishness

may this be our victory , however we define it in our theoligy

till be become like him ,for we will see him as he is

please pray for me presious brethern for this perfect man to be a relity in my life

and please pray for each other

letss not be satasfied

for there is coming a season of seperation

for the preperation will be the seperation

and the season its self will seperate you

confess you falts to one another
and pray for one another ,that you may be heald

the time is come ,,be humble ,and believe
for times of refreshing are coming from the presesnce of the lord

let be me a rock ,or a dumb donkey

when i say ,the spirit is saying something to some of his church

blessings brother gary an unproftable severnt ,and one of little faith