GAYS AND LESBIANS

I have a question which asked on another part of the forum which I maybe should ask here. It seems that we as Christians tend to focus more on the sin of homosexuality (I'm not condoning it for it is a sin) than any other sin. Could it be because that is what is covered most by the media, or is it something else? Are we as adamant against other things such as fornication, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating etc or do we focus on homosexuality because it is not a sin that we commit? Should we not also be equally critical of our own lives and be equally conscious of our own sins?any thoughts?

Because it is one of the few sins that God calls an "abomination". Websters dictionary describes that as "extreme disgust and hatred". It is why God utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah from the face of the earth. It makes a mockery of God's creation (man and woman), and makes a mockery of His example of Christ's relationship to the church (marriage).It does help to understand it all but is it possible that we can focus so much on this one thing (not making light of it) that we also forget to condemn all other sins? Is it not hypocritical to condemn someone else's in while refusing to deal with your own?

man you must be following me or something... :)Absolutely. As long as we live, tho, we will struggle with sin. The key is... we have to be humble enough to admit it. We cant condemn someone else's sin while justifying our own. But we also can not let our own weaknesses keep us from witnessing to others. If anything, we can use our weaknesses to show others how forgiving God is... if you understand what I mean. Indeed you are correct. It seems to me that it is a fine line we must walk, condemning sin wherever it may be, in others or ourselves, I think dealing with sin in the latter is harder...Lately God has been making me more aware of my own sins and the importance of the confession of them. It's easier for Him to deal with them when I say what they are and it is quite liberating indeed.

*as I look over my shoulder...both shoulders*SOMEONE HELP!!!! :-P I've been learning a lot from the people on this forum and it has been good to interact with other brethren because this is one of the ways in which the holy spirit ministers to us. Through the testimonies of others and the revelations that God gives to each of us.

James and John (Sons of Thunder),I agree with you brother... we as the American church people do focus way too much on homosexuality and the condemnation of those practicing it. And it is a sin, no doubt. As is greed- and the apostle Paul spoke just as harshly if not more harsh towards greed as he did homosexuality.Ezekiel 16:49. "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."On top of all this, I have heard it said that the church in its treatment of homosexuals is "Beating up those already wounded." Probably 95% of homosexuals that I have met are victims of severe abuse or mistreatment. These folks are already wounded by society. Are these not the very people Jesus would have dined with or been annoited by? I think the state of the church's relationship with the least of these can be measured by the likelihood that those shunned by society would feel inclined to run to us for help with full faith that they would be received full of grace and truth. We have the truth thing down, but woe to us Lord if we practice the latter while leaving the former undone!Grace and peace to you.

Ironman,You have a valid question, and have made some interesting points. I have asked the same questions, and have more or less been rebuked for doing so. It “seems” the only time I ever hear the word (abomination) is in reference to Homosexuality. In my little part of the world (Missouri and Kansas) not unlike other States, it is a hot-topic always guaranteed to arouse fierce dialog. Just this week as I departed a local shopping center I picked up a free local newspaper(I use that word generously) it is touted as an “alternative” paper, what caught my attention on the front cover was a woman with a Bible in her mouth!!The article dealt with the Kansas Senate deciding that the State should be allowed to vote on this issue of gay marriage. The reporter who is sympathetic to the gay marriage issue made the statement “Christians actually believe that marriage is under attack from gay people-- instead of from half the straight people who currently abuse the privilege.” This statement according to my limited research has been identified by the Barna Research Group, in their studies they have written:The data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt. "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. ]Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. George Barna commented that the results raise "questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families." The data challenge "the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage." And so my point is, the mockery is not only coming from the Homosexual community. Not by a long shot!!Allow me to include the thoughts of a former lesbian, after accepting Christ and her difficulty with “church people”,I wish christians would stop totem poling sins and treat everybody alike. They tend to put homosexuals on the bottom when it comes to being concerned about them, and on top of the pole when it comes to judging them as hopeless. I get tired of christians accepting converted adulters, prostitutes, alcoholics, maturbators, and then recoiling like vipers when homosexuals seek help. They seem on the verge of throwing up when they talk to me; they watch my every move; they eyeball and analyze me, looking for errors. They can’t forget my past, as if Jesus came into the world to save everybody but homosexuals. No wonder sin is driven underground. No wonder people with life-controlling habits tend to react violently. These troubled souls are degraded; scorn is heaped upon them by a Church that wants nothing to do with queers and faggots. We are so offended by their practices, we have made their sin so scandalous, we turn them into outcasts with no hope of return.” Let me conclude by asking, are we reaching the homosexual with the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Are we seeing lives transformed by the power of God? Or, are we so disgusted by the sin that we are ignoring the need?I am not sure, In Christ,tony

Ezekiel 16:49. "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."I have looked at this verse many times. To me it shows that homosexuality is not the most detestable thing- it's the roots of it. The roots of our sins (including homosexuality) is pride, loving comfort more than what is right, and not caring about others.If you look at it like this you can see that these "root" sins are apparent insomeone who has adopted the homosexual lifestyle. - but- you can also see these root sins in someone in bondage to anything else as well. I have seen these things in me.In Him, chanin

Because it is one of the few sins that God calls an "abomination". ... It is why God utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah from the face of the earth.I'm sorry but I would have to disagree with these statements above. First, there are many specific abominations mentioned in the Bible but all unrighteousness is an abomination before our righteous, holy, and just Lord;For all that do such things, [and] all that do unrighteously, [are] an abomination unto the LORD thy God. (Deuteronomy 25:16)Also, Sodom's sin and reason for destruction are explained in Ezekiel;Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good]. (Ezekiel 16:49-50)Certainly their sexual immorality can be considered as a part of the abomination Sodom committed but first on that list in Ezekiel are, pride, idleness, and lovelessness.Homosexuality sure is a hot topic these days and I believe that is because it is one the the biggest tools satan is using to mock the institution of marriage and the family which things are ordained by God and pictures of our relationship with Him. Also, it is an issue that we are already seeing as being used to silence Christian witness in public places, the Philadelphia trial comes to mind. In Christ,Ron

I don't disagree with all that has been said thus far, yet I see this question in a different way. We all accept the truth that adultery, stealing, lying, and murder are sin. We all stumble in sin. But there is something more to the debate that is raging in America pretaining to the acceptance of homosexuality. The Gay and Lesbian movement is working to ligitimize their behavior. They are working to promote the idea that living that lifestyle is not sinful. They want their lifestyle to be accepted as normal. This is the crux of the battle. God hates divorce, yet look how through the years of promoting divorce, it has been accepted by the vast majority of the Christian world. The Gay and Lesbian agenda will lead to the same manifestations. Christian world, isn't that an oxymoron?In ChristJeff

TonySThe data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt. "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people. Now we seem to be getting deeper into the issue, right at something which is key here. The divorce rate is something like 50%, why?1) people do not seek God and let Him find the perfect spouse for you2) people have a wrong perception of what marriage is in the 1st place and when they are disappointed, they quit.3) when trials come people don't wait on God to empower them to deal with the trials. Now when Christians marriages are in such a state it becomes SOO easy for the enemy to further pervert the sanctity of marriage. I mean is our divorce rate is 50% or better, on what grounds can we say that gay marriage destroys the sanctity of marriage? We have already done incredible damange to that because we ourselves have not obeyed. I mean we fornicate which has spiritual consequences (as well as physical) which are long-lasting. We may be forgiven but there are just some consequences that we just have to deal with afterward. If we can't get marriage right by obeying God in it, then how can we hope to correct others? It just can't work. I wish christians would stop totem poling sins and treat everybody alike. They tend to put homosexuals on the bottom when it comes to being concerned about them, and on top of the pole when it comes to judging them as hopeless. I get tired of christians accepting converted adulters, prostitutes, alcoholics, maturbators, and then recoiling like vipers when homosexuals seek help. They seem on the verge of throwing up when they talk to me; they watch my every move; they eyeball and analyze me, looking for errors. They can’t forget my past, as if Jesus came into the world to save everybody but homosexuals. No wonder sin is driven underground. No wonder people with life-controlling habits tend to react violently. These troubled souls are degraded; scorn is heaped upon them by a Church that wants nothing to do with queers and faggots. We are so offended by their practices, we have made their sin so scandalous, we turn them into outcasts with no hope of return.”Christ said "whatsoever you do unto the least of your brothers you have done to me" did he not? Now let us be clear that we are to condemn sin wherever it may be. We must start with ourselves and also we must NEVER neglect our own need for cleansing. We must also remember that we too have sinned and been forgiven, how then can be be unforgiving to others? If ever I am tempted to harbour resentment or contemplate being unforgiving, I think on that and I am humbled. I remember what God has forgiven me for and I feel compelled to share that same forgiveness with others. The Lord's prayer says "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trepass against us" God will forgive us accoring to the same measure of forgiveness we choose to show others.

Chanin (is that another way of spelling shannon? just curious...) have looked at this verse many times. To me it shows that homosexuality is not the most detestable thing- it's the roots of it. The roots of our sins (including homosexuality) is pride, loving comfort more than what is right, and not caring about others.Yes indeed, if we focus on the symptoms (we should deal with these by the way) the solution is temporary. We must also tackle the root of sin, pride. From pride comes, disobedience which is the rejection of the precepts of God. Pride says "I don't need God or His precepts, I can do whatever I wish without consequence) We need to kill that beast first and then dealing with the symptoms will be much easier. one can cut a tree down but if it still has working roots it can regrow, but if you somehow poison the roots, that takes away the source of the tree's sustinence thereby killing it.

Homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is evidence that it is genetic in some cases. Why would God make people predisposed to sin?The enemy's whole mission is to pervert what God has created by whatever means necessary. It may or may not include causing animals to be that way also though I would not put it past him. It is not evidence that it is genetic at all, in fact there is no such evidence. Now there are some speculations out there all of which have yet to be substantiated. Being someone trained in science I also know that you can make the number say whatever you want them to.Originally God did not make us sinful, He gave us free will. Satan came and tempted Eve and she could have said "no, leave me alone" she chose not to and ate the fruit. Adam also had the same choice and he chose unwisely. The consequence of that was that we would all be more likely to disobey God in a given situation.

We must also tackle the root of sin, pride. It was Andrew Murray who said that the root of all sin is pride (in his book Humility) and I believe that!!!! it is the hardest thing to kill too!And yes,"Chanin" is another way to pronounce SHANNON. I don't know why my mom didn't just spell it a normal way. I guess she knew I wasn't going to be a "normal" kind of girl! :-D In Him, Chanin

ChaninYes pride is the hardest thing to deal with. perhaps we preoccupy ourselves with the symptoms of pride because we are afraid to admit that we need to deal with it. In this world we all want to be something and killing pride would mean we would have to become nobody (ouch) What do you think?I think the spelling of your name to be kinda cool :-)

Homosexual behaviour occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is evidence that it is genetic in some cases. Why would God make people predisposed to sin?I believe this argument is simply an attempt to justify immoral behavior without really studying the issue closely. How do you know animals practice homosexuality? Because you see Rover mounting another male dog does that mean homosexuality is natural?Think about this for a second. If you ever had a male dog, you know that they don't just mount other male dogs. They also mount sofas, and trees, and will mount the leg of your house guests if you're not careful. This is not homosexual behavior. This is auto-eroticism.The only way one could show this behavior was homosexual is if one could demonstrate that the dog was desiring the male gender of the animal he was mounting. One can't conclude from the observed activity alone that any animal has homosexual desires . This is just another example of a hasty judgment.In Christ,Ron