What the LORD is showing me concerning persecution, and sorrows in this day.

Greetings
I have been praying much concerning some of the other topics, those in particular that pertain to persecution and the coming trails and tribulations that lay ahead. I have read with much interest and prayer asking the LORD to open my heart that I might glean from these threads what HE would have for me. I will honestly admit with some of the post, those that have been graphic in description where persecution is concerned they have been difficult for me to read. Not so much for myself but they do put images into my mind and as I think of the little ones it is unsettling to me. Of course I know there are many who deal with these kinds of struggles even now and my heart goes out to them in prayer I lift them up before the LORD.

Some of the other things that FATHER is showing me in all this, is to just really keep my focus on HIM. I realize of course those who are suffering physical persecution need our prayers but I am seeing that those who are lost and deceived in many of the religious structure churches here are in great need of prayer as well. Many believe themselves saved and in fact they are not, this breaks my heart to, it makes me shudder and tremble to think of someone hearing those words from JESUS, "depart from me I never knew you."

Another aspect in all of this has been from some who have posted and shared the physical persecution side of this reality. While I do see the merit and understand the need to count the cost I wonder if sharing only the persecution side is telling the whole story? As I hear of these things happening around the world I always think on the "why" so many of these brothers and sisters suffer these things for HIS name sake. Might it not be profitable and encouraging to us in our walks to speak on these things as well? I believe if you or I were to ask these faithful servants why they choose to suffer for the LORD they would share with us about HIM. HIS unspeakable love, HIS grace, HIS mercy, HIS forgiveness, HIS strength, HIS character, HIS sacrifice...the list could go on forever. I guess what I am thinking if we could talk to Stephen in that moment just before he breathed his last why he had said and done the things he did, he would tell us because "Worthy is the LAMB!" After all its not only about the persecution but its about willingly submitting our lives to HIM because HE is worthy!! Honestly with all that GOD has done for me, someone who is completely unworthy there is nothing HE could ask me to do that would be "to much" I believe even the disciples counted all of their trails and tribulations as joy unto the LORD!! Not sure about anyone else but this gives me much hope in HIM!! I know I will have trails and tribulations,(the kind of tribulations I do not worry about) I choose to trust in HIM to give me all that I will need in the midst of them. When the storms rage, whether it be physical persecution for HIS name sake, a natural disaster, economic disruptions, cancer, a lost job, a relative who rejects me as I seek to live for HIM, a broken relationship on account of living for HIM, or the death of a loved one, I know JESUS will be right there with me, HE will be my supply and strength through it all. After all isn't it about taking up our cross daily to follow after HIM??

The last thing I am praying about in all of this and I do think this was asked on another thread, is this, "what is the motivation of my heart when I post here?" No matter what the topic is, even if it seems to be spiritually a really great topic if I don't post in love, after much prayer, and according to HIS will then its all garbage any way...I really want the things I share to reflect HIS heart and I do pray that what I share would point us toward JESUS. Please know this is just what the FATHER has placed on my heart here today to share with you all.I am thankful and grateful for all that have shared what the LORD has shown you on this topic as well.

God bless
mj

Frank for what you shared thank you. Such beauty in the words of this faithful servant. I am indeed encouraged by these posts, who could not be. The words of a brother in the midst of such trails sharing how JESUS met him there!!
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"In a dark hole I have found pleasure; in a place of bitterness and death, rest and hope of salvation; in the abyss or depths of hell, joy; where others weep, I have laughed; where others fear, I have found strength; who will believe this? In a state of misery I have had very great delight; in a lonely corner I have had most glorious company, and in the severest bond, great rest. All these things, my fellow brethren in Jesus Christ, the gracious hand of God has given me.
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This words are the heart of one looking past the reality of "the now" and looking to HIS LORD and KING.
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"But hearken, ye blind and mortal men, what is hotter and more intense than the fire which is prepared for you? What is colder than your own heart, which is yet in darkness, and has no light at all? John 1:5. What is harder and more confused and restless than your life? What is more ignoble and repulsive than your age? Tell me, my dear, what country or home is sweeter than the heavenly? II Cor. 5:1. What treasure is greater than eternal life? And who are our parents and friends, except those alone who keep the Word of God? Where are greater joy, riches, and honor than in heaven? Tell me, ye ignorant, is not all learning given to know God, whom if we do not know in truth, all’ our labor, watching and exertion, yea, all our undertakings are expended to no purpose? Answer me, ye unhappy men: what comfort or balm can he have, who misses God, who is the cure and refreshing of all? Ex. 15′:26. How can he say that I fear death, if he himself is dead in sins, and thus prefers death to life? I Tim. 5:6. For if Christ is the way, the truth, end the life, can life be found out of Christ? The heat is to me a refreshing pleasure, and winter a joy in the Lord. I who do not fear the burning of the fire, shall I be afraid of simple heat? Is he tormented by ice, who consumes, melts, and falls asleep in the love of God?"
Again the heart behind this is one that is so completely in love and focused on JESUS that all is counted as joy!!
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Thank you for sharing. I think I will tuck this one away with some other favorites of mine and pour over them again. Good things to meditated on to be sure.

God bless
mj

Jesus-is-God wrote:What The LORD has been showing me in the last week is that the coming conference is right on target and right on time and That is why this topic is under attack and we need to consider the source of these attacks and know that it's a form of confirmation that the topic of the conference IS From GOD because of the sources of the opposition.
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Thank you dear sister for sharing your heart here. I agree the closer we seek to draw near to JESUS the more the enemy will attack. In all these things I pray JESUS be lifted up in the lives of each of us. I do see such a great need to pray for many who are lost, I have felt time is short and there is such a pressing need. I hear HIS battle call, it is a call to prayer!

God Bless
mj

Brothertom wrote:If we were assured that this was coming, would we, or could we change our daily life? I think the Spirit will do His work as we allow him, and possibly threads like these provoke us , as has been done in your life, to seek for His more perfect heart for your life.

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As I read over your response this struck me because I have in times past asked myself the questions, "if this were my last twenty four hours to live, how would I live them?" what you said in the above reminded me of that. OF course I know in my heart the answer should always be the same every day "seek to walk closer to the LORD. Hold tight to HIM and submit unto HIM in all things." This is how I should want to live my last day with or with out persecution so it is exactly how I should be seeking to live my life today. Its how I should have lived yesterday and if I am so blessed it should be how I spend the day tomorrow!

Thank you for the reminder. Thank you also for sharing what FATHER has given you.

God Bless
mj

Hi Jesus is God,
You quoted the following:

What The LORD has been showing me in the last week is that the coming conference is right on target and right on time and That is why this topic is under attack and we need to consider the source of these attacks and know that it's a form of confirmation that the topic of the conference IS From GOD because of the sources of the opposition

And in particular I think it is very wrong of you to say this
"and That is why this topic is under attack and we need to consider the source of these attacks "

because you are really just saying who ever doesn't agree with the "persecution debate" are not on the side of God and are doing the devils work.That is very wrong if that's what you meant.All of the christians who gave their opinion love God,study the scripture, work for him and are concerned about these prophesys.

Also your thesis that just because it is opposed means it from God is not scriptural in my opinion.The opposing view could say the same thing "we are standing up against this teaching for God type of thing"
I have been consistent in my view about "an upcoming persecution prophesy"
Yours Staff

Have we not already had Great Tribulations in the 20th Century. Not just Soldiers dying in battles with the enemy, There have been well over 200 million Democides in the 20th century.

Democide: A term coined by political scientist R.J. Rummel, for 'the murder of any person or people by a government—e.g., genocide, politicide, and mass murder'

From http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP1.HTM

"Few are aware of the sheer democide that has been inflicted on our fellow human beings. That Hitler murdered millions of Jews is common knowledge. That he murdered overall near 21,000,000 Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals, Frenchmen, Balts, Czechs, and others, is virtually unknown. Similarly, that Stalin murdered tens of millions is becoming generally appreciated; but that Stalin, Lenin, and their successors murdered almost 62,000,000 Soviet citizens and foreigners is little comprehended outside of the Soviet Union (where similar figures are now being widely published). Then there is Mao Tse-tung's China, Chiang Kai-shek's China, the militarist's Japan, Yahya Khan's Pakistan, Pol Pot's Cambodia, and the others who have murdered in the millions. Even those students of genocide who have tried to tabulate such killing around the world have grossly underestimated the toll. The best, most recent such accounting came up with no more than 16,000,000 killed in genocide and politicide since World War II.18 But this estimate does not even cover half of the some 35,000,000 people likely murdered by just the Communist Party of China from 1949 to 1987.

"Moreover, even the toll of war itself is not well understood. Many estimate that World War II, for example, killed 40,000,000 to 60,000,000 people. But the problem with such figures is that they include tens of millions killed in democide. Many war-time governments massacred civilians and foreigners, committed atrocities or genocide against them, executed them, and subjected them to reprisals. Aside from battle or military engagements, during the war the Nazis murdered around 20,000,000 civilians and prisoners of war, the Japanese 5,890,000, the Chinese Nationalists 5,907,000, the Chinese communists 250,000, the Nazi satellite Croatians 655,000, the Tito Partisans 600,000, and Stalin 13,053,000 (above the 20,000,000 war-dead and democide by the Nazis of Soviet Jews and Slavs). I also should mention the indiscriminate bombing of civilians by the Allies that killed hundreds of thousands, and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Most of these dead are usually included among the war-dead. But those killed in battle versus in democide form distinct conceptual and theoretical categories and should not be confused. That they have been consistently and sometimes intentionally confounded helps raise the toll during World War II to some 60,000,000 people, way above the estimated 15,000,000 killed in battle and military action. And that the almost universally accepted count of genocide during this period also is no more than "6,000,000" Jews, around 13 percent of the total war-time democide, has further muddled our research and thought."

Another great tribulation began in South and Central America, and the Caribbean in the 16th Century.

Christopher Columbus and his crew, landing on an island in the Bahamas on October 12, 1492, were the first Europeans to encounter the Taíno people. Columbus wrote:

"They traded with us and gave us everything they had, with good will..they took great delight in pleasing us..They are very gentle and without knowledge of what is evil; nor do they murder or steal..Your highness may believe that in all the world there can be no better people ..They love their neighbours as themselves, and they have the sweetest talk in the world, and are gentle and always laughing."

The slave trade: the story of the Atlantic slave trade, 1440-1870 Written by well respected Historian Hugh Thomas, Documents the the re-establihment of slavery by the Catholic Church via their issuance of 4 Papal Bulls between 1440 and 1520. which led to enslaving blacks who were kidnapped from Africa and sent to work as slaves for their Spanish and Porteguese Masters, as well as enslaving millions of native Americans.

From Catholic priest Montesino in 1511 declared to the Spanish conquerors in America stated: "By what right and by what justice do you hold these Indians in such a cruel and horrible servitude? With what authority have you carried out such detestable wars against these people who were living in their meek and peaceful lands that you have consumed with deaths and ravages never heard of? How can you hold these peoples so oppressed and exhausted by not giving to them the food they need to eat, and by not healing their illnesses which are due to the excessive works you force upon them? Thus they die, or –better said – you kill them in order to acquire the precious gold every day! Do you care at all about letting them know God as their Creator… and fulfill their Sunday obligation? Are these people not human beings? Don’t they have rational souls? Are you not obliged to love them as you love yourselves?"

Bishop Bartoleme de Las Casas, published in 1542: "A Brief Account of the Devastation of the Indies."

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/20321/pg20321.html

Also

http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/02-las.html

In 1516, a Spanish historian, Peter Martyr, reported that the Bahamas were "deserted," and that "a ship without a compass, chart, or guide, but only following the trail of dead Indians who had been thrown from the ships could find its way from the Bahamas to Hispanola."

So how does the above relates to this thread?

There have been many Great Tribulations that peoples generations before us already lived through.

What shall we Christians do if we find ourselves is such a Tribulation?

We will hold fast to the Gospel, and love one another, we will bless those who curse us, we will help and comfort those whom we can, and die valiantly, knowing our Spirit returns to our Lord.

From the 'Lord of the Rings - Two Towers:

Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this happened."

Gandalf: So do all who see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

So, think about it and be prepared, what will you do?

As for me, I agree with Mozart, when he wrote to his father in in 1787: "As death, strictly speaking, is the goal of our lives, I have for some years past been making myself so familiar with this truest and best friend of man that its aspect has not only ceased to appal me, but I find it very soothing and comforting! And I thank my God that he has vouchsafed me the happiness of an opportunity (you will understand me) to recognise it as the key to our true bliss. I never lie down to sleep without reflecting that (young as I am) [he was 31] I may perhaps not see another day—yet none of those who know me can say I am morose or melancholy in society—and I thank my Creator every day for this happiness and wish from the bottom of my heart that all my fellow men might share it."

ArtB wrote:Have we not already had Great Tribulations in the 20th Century.

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I was not sure if you were asking this as an actual question or not :) The things you shared are indeed horrific and I do believe through out history we can go back and see many examples of wars, struggles, and plagues, disasters and the like but none of these events has ushered in the second coming of our LORD JESUS and so that is what I believe many who are sharing are speaking about.(this is just my thought though. I do not mean to speak for all)

I do agree that the need for prayer, staying close to our LORD and keeping our eyes, hearts, and minds fixed on HIM is the answer to any trail or tribulations one goes through in their life.JESUS is always our answer and should be the motivator of our hearts.

God Bless
maryjane

Apollus wrote:

"please consider what Jesus says about the times to come.............

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Jesus's warnings were indeed grave and were fulfilled in the Jewish/Roman war leading up to 70 AD and the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD. The accounts of what went on during that time period are harrowing to say the least. I have found that very very few Christians have any idea how bad that period was. I was never taught anyhting about it in any church I ever attended and really only became aware of it in the past several years. Every Christians should educate themselves about what happened in that period of history.

I am not saying that there may not be some possible future application but the primary thrust of Jesus's words related to the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD. And thank goodness the believers did heed his warnings and fled the city before it was too late.

Bearmaster wrote:If someone can show Mr that persecution is false. Then I will shut down my prayer call and repent of misleading people. And believe something mire credible like big foot.

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If I may share something with you from the heart and I do so in love...why allow what another thinks to cause you to stumble even for a moment? Stand firm on what you know to be true, you shared your heart and gave the warning as the LORD has led you now stand back and allow the Holy Spirit to work. I say this in love and am speaking to myself as well it is not my job, or yours to force anyone to see what may come in the way of persecution it is only our job to be faithful to what the LORD is showing us. If those you share with do not see what you are sharing then leave it to the LORD to show them and commit to prayer on their behalf. Our job is to point others to CHRIST we can not force them to go to HIM though. Even JESUS did not force anyone. OF course persecution toward Christians is real and if you feel led dear brother to pray for those who are enduring even now then pray. GOD has given you this burden trust in HIM and walk it out.Pray with out stopping! If others do not see the things HE is showing you pray for them and humbly ask that they pray for you GOD will reveal HIMSELF to all that seek after HIM! Don't be disheartened and give the enemy room, but rather lift up others in prayer and love on them. This is not an argument or debate needing to be one, its about loving others enough to share with them(which you have) and then trusting in GOD to finish HIS work!

Praying for you bearmaster and all of us that HIS will be done in our lives and no matter what comes at the end of the day we will remain standing firm and strong in HIM!!

God bless
mj

Bearmaster wrote:

"So why are we debating the reality of believers in Christ being persecuted and dying for Christ?"

Who here is suggesting any such thing? Certainly not me.

I think Mary Jane missed your sarcasm.

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Appolus said: "Are you a preterist?"

Wow, you make that sound like it is a dirty word. I know of extremely godly people who hold this position. It is not heresy-- hate to break it to you.

No, I am not a preterist; i.e., I could not sit here and expound everything that a preterist believes. However, neither am I a 100% dispensationalist which by the way did not come into vogue until the mid 1800s. I believe that many of the prophecies in Rev and Mt 24 etc have already been fulfilled; but I also believe that some have not.

The phrase "end of the world" can equally be translated "end of the age." That is how the NKJV and other translations have it. The destruction of Jersusalem and the temple system was indeed the end of an age.

It is obvious that Jesus was talking, in major part, about the upcoming events in 70 AD. Because in Luke's version of this discourse, He says "“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near." And at Mt 24:34: "Assuredly, I say to you, **this generation** will by no means pass away till all these things take place." And it did; for that is precisely what happened during the siege by the Romans in 70 AD. It takes a lot of gyrations to suggest he really didnt mean "this generation" when he was talking to his disciples who were part of "this generation."

I understand the sway that the dispensational end times view has in evangelicalism. Most evangelical pastors attended seminaries that teach this viewpoint. I never heard any alternative viewpoint in any evangelical church I ever attended, and really never expect to. And believe me I have taught in Bible studies the dispensational view of things. I mean I had the charts and everything. And I am not saying that this view is all wrong; i am just saying that there are other legitimate views of the end times that are not heretical. Too be dogmatic about Mt 24 primarily being about some yet future event is, in my view, not supported by scripture.

And I want to reiterate that I have never even hinted at an argument that persecution is not coming to the western church. I believe that it very well may and probably will, although obviously I have no idea of when that may actually be. The other thread, as I have tried to explain, has nothing at all to do with that. Maybe only 2 people on the entire forum have realized this.