proudpapa
Jun 19, 2012
As election time gets near, I have noticed in the past that A lot of mainline radio Preachers start preaching that it is a sin not to vote.
What are your thoughts??
As election time gets near, I have noticed in the past that A lot of mainline radio Preachers start preaching that it is a sin not to vote.
What are your thoughts??
My wife and I are both Desert Storm veterans and I've never not voted. However, between the last election and one the Lord has changed me so much that I'm at a point where I cannot vote in good conscious .
Honestly, I'm tired of hearing people come up with reasons they believe it's a sin to not vote. If you want to vote, by all means vote! The only reason that I would vote either way is the abortion issue and since both parties cannot be trusted with this one issue (based on both of their track records) then to me they are both not qualified.
My opinion. Yours may be (and probably is) different, praise God that He doesn't create clones! :-)
This is a 100% conscience issue. If everyone you are voting for are practicing evil and not upholding righteous then in many ways you are not bound to vote in my mind.
I am voting for the conservative party in my country because of some stands for righteousness the prime minister made. I applaud him for these things and have committed to pray for him more as 2 Timothy 2:2 commands us.
I do not "think" that "is it a sin" is the way to look at it. I could be wrong.
I will say that I have had period in my christian walk were I resolved not to vote. I have since changed that opinion and I now vote.
Also in my opinion one should not complain to much about the representatives if they did not particpate by voting.
Also when you have millions of christian believe the lie that there vote does not count,,,well that does not help either.
As election time gets near, I have noticed in the past that A lot of mainline radio Preachers start preaching that it is a sin not to vote.
What are your thoughts??
Dangerous thing calling something a sin that the Bible doesn't define as such. Teaching as the precepts of God, the inventions of men.
No it is not a sin to not vote, unless the Lord tells you specifically to. There is a good previous thread on this issue of voting/not, participating in military/not, concerning ourselves as Christians as believers or not. I can't remember what it's called. But I think it may have started out as the one that says something like "Baptist Pastor endorses Mormon Mitt Romney" if memory serves me correct. Greg or one of the other moderators can verify this.
I meant to say "concerning ourselves with politics as believers of not" in previous post
This is a 100% faith issue, too.
Rom 14:23b ...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Pilgrim
Voting in secular political elections is more than simply expressing your preference for one candidate over another. By voting you are saying that you want a particular candidate to fill a particular position and to perform the duties associated with that office. When it comes to top state and nation leaders, part of their duties include supporting acts of violence.
Quoting from "Blood Guilt," page 253 (see New Covenant Press, www.covenant.nu , 2011):
--- snip 8< ---
When it comes to the legislative branch, the U.S. Constitution says, “Congress shall have power to declare war.” For the American voter, this means that a vote cast for a congressional representative not only signifies an endorsement of that candidate, but also of the duties and job functions they will perform when they are elected. By their votes, Christians in effect authorize their elected officials to act in the following ways: to punish and execute criminals; to lead armed forces; to repel invasions and suppress insurrections; and in our day, to invade foreign countries for the supposed purpose of fighting terrorism. Whether they realize it or not, Christians who exercise their right to vote endorse such actions by their votes. When Christians elect officials whose duty it is to govern a people using the threat of violence against them, and who have the power to use violence against others in distant lands, Christians in effect become their supporters and employers. When Christians participate in these types of secular elections, they are not only selecting representatives, but also authorizing those representatives to act as their agents — agents whose duties include using the threat of violence against others. And by extension, what Christians do by their agents, they do themselves.
--- snip 8< ---
So is it a sin not to vote? No. Actually, just the opposite would be the case, for by abstaining from secular politics, including elections, one will be able to fulfill the call to be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves."
I think the question itself is nonsense. To ask this question tells me that anyone who takes the questions of 'is it a sin not to vote' doesn't really know what sin is and therefore should examine their version of Christianity because there is unbalance there. It leads to a skewed view and then others are exposed to it and are skewed as well.
I think the question should be asked the other way. Is it a sin to vote? Particularly when you look at the choice for the highest office in the land. We are missing God's message. The choice one sees for President should compel one to stay away from the pills. Should compel one to lean nigh unto Jesus. But many believers are going to ignore what God is saying. They are going to sell their inheritance rights for a single meal as Esau did. They will be like Israel. We want a king. They will like those who told Pilot we have no king but caesar Then they will justify thei disobedience to God and say well we are not voting for a pastor but a president.
Forum in the words of dear Hezwelling. Please come out of Babylon. Come back to your Savior. Come back to Jesus. Don't abandon him. Please do not forsake Jesus and your inheritance for a single meal.
Bearmaster.
If your conscience is clear about it vote until the cows come home. I personally like to vote. I do it to free myself from the superstitions of others who think it's a sin.
For example, there are superstitions that are out there that it's a sin to mow your lawn or weed your garden on a Sunday. I would mow the lawn and weed the garden to get away from those ideas.
Or if it's taboo to lift your hands in Church during the song service, I'd do it anyway. I have no respect for Churches that refuse to worship God freely.
I understand we are not a "theocracy" as Israel was, but there are some principles and types/shadows in how God dealt with/spoke of Israel and their focus on "give us a king like all the other nations" & God's thoughts on such a matter. Don't waste time explaining how we aren't Israel, how we are part of a "democracy" (which is inaccurate anyways - ours is a Republic form of government), etc. Save it cause I'm fully aware of that, but there are some principles we can glean from.
God wanted Israel, His chosen people in the OT, to fully trust in Him as King, but they refused and insisted on a "more natural" set-up like the nations around them, who knew not God. God wants us, spiritual Israel (the Body of Christ), to not put our hope/faith/trust in earthly politicians, leaders, governments, countries, but in Him alone. God wanted Israel to not trust in the arm of the flesh, their military might, or their history to defend herself, and God wants us not to trust in our military, our constitution, and our history to defend/protect ourselves.
God's Word Says that "what Soldier entangles himself in civilian affairs? He Tries to please his commanding officer". In the same way, God wants His soldiers in the spiritual battle for men's souls (an eternal kingdom that the prophets from Jeremiah to Jesus spoke of, everlasting in the Heavenlies), & not to waste time, energy, effort, and their hearts/faith/trust/hope in worldly kingdoms, kings, and carnal battles that will all be shown to amount to nothing but the frivolity of carnal men's carnal minds at the judgement seat.
God still anointed Kings (like David) to govern Israel, but these were men truly after God's own heart to lead. It wasn't God's perfect will (from a viewpoint of His desire - as He already spoke to them to not desire a King, but trust in Him alone), but in His permissive will which He allowed and used to teach Israel many things. In fact, He gave them to have a King in the form that they desired. Great in stature, charasmatic, talented, etc. Just what the people wanted so that the end of such a craving could be played out to show the fruit of such carnal longings. When He brought David to power, He was a smaller, more conspicuous, less charismatic, humble shepherd boy, so that aged could show that man looks with different eyes. Man looks at the outward, while God sees into the heart.
While their situation is different, their government is different, their covenant was different, etc., there are principles, examples, and types/shadows in these dealings for our benefit even today. "These things were given to us as examples".
Just as in the previous thread about Romney's Mormonisim, voting, etc. I'll say this: if the Lord speaks to you to vote for someone, by all means, we should do whatever the Lord commands. But otherwise, we are to be a people led by the Spirit. In love, I'm not sure doing things with the intent purpose of "going against the grain" to prove my freedom in Christ is what the Lord had in mind. I don't think that's a Biblically valid approach. Some people feel they can't drink wine, so I drink it just to prove I can that's actually the opposite of what Paul says in reference to such freedoms (I enjoy a glass of wine myself on an occasion, so don't think I'm saying you can't have any freedom), but I'm referring to the heart issue of motives and "why" we do/don't do what we choose. That's what Jesus did. He took the acton past the doing to the motive intent of the heart.
Anyways, I will not vote until the Lord tells me to. Like I have said before, your choices are a possible Muslim/"christian" (in name only) socialist who loves abortion or a Mormon who used to love the right to abort babies when he was in a democratic state, but now has backed off some now that his "political in-road" is as the republican candidate. These are the choices for a follower of God. This proves to me that the Lord is trying to show His Bride in these days the frivolity of getting caught up in this earthly battle and not just putting our hope trust and faith in God, His kingdom, the soon 2nd coming of Christ, the preaching of the Gospel to the ends of the earth, the growth in the inner man that comes only by the Holy Spirit's work on the inner man in prayer, the reading of the Word, fasting (at times), and allowing the Lord to do deep, unseen, real work in the heart to change us.
The principle of "I just go vote for a Mormon who changes his so called positions on abortion when it's convenient over the quasi Muslim/Christian socialist to prove that I have freedom in Christ" is not anything the scripture would support. If you think it is, please share the Word of God to support such a notion. It's a sin to do anything that is not of faith and that violates conscience. Above all that, we are to focus on the spiritual battle against spiritual wickedness in high places, be sojourners and pilgrims in a strange land, and to redeem the time for the days are evil, looking into Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, and to await eagerly His second coming when He fully establishes His eternal reign over all creation (which we who are His hold be willfully submitted to and preparing ourselves for NOW).
I'm not trying to "make voting a sin". M simply asking the same question I always do that no one answers because they know the answer: 1.) Are you filled with the Holy Spirit? 2.) Did HE tell you to vote for Obama or Romney? You will tell me of your "freedom", and I will tell you that is freedom FROM THE OT LAW refeered to ino scripture, not freedom FROM being led by the Spirit, which is what we are called to in the New Covenant. As an ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ, which one of these ungodly men of false faith are you telling me you should support with a vote? Wake up church. This is spoken in the love of Christ, God as my witness. Don't get mad or defensive, just support "how you feel", "what you think" or whatever BY THE WORD OF GOD. Who knows, you might not be right and the only way you might see the blemish/es in your thinking/heart/character, is to "look into the mirror of the perfect law of liberty" (THE WORD OF GOD), which shows/reveals error in our thinking. This should be our compass brethren/sistren, AMEN?!?!?!?!
In His Love,
Jeff
Good food for thought in your post.
Bear
If I was American, I would vote for Romney. I don't care if he is Mormon, I don't vote based on if he is a Christian or not. If he or she has a mind to do any Judeao Christian principles, he deserves my vote. If any of the candidates are the same in their values, I don't vote for either.
Look what happened in the last election, everyone voted for your current administration thinking that he was a Christian, thinking that he would make America right again.
At one time in my religious pious days I refused to vote thinking I was doing some great service to God for being so righteous in my holiness. In those days I thought I was better than everyone because of my standards. I believed I was truly walking in the Spirit. Such arrogance caused me to fall flat on my face in shame and humiliation. Looking at myself from the outside I saw a religious Pharisee thinking that my abstinence from certain trivial matters made me right before God. Once I "grew up" out of those elementary things, one of the things that I enjoy doing now is voting.
I vote because I do not want to slide back into that way of thinking. Now if God has other plans for me not to, than of course I will decline. Voting does not hold a huge sway with me, in the end, it's my belief from the scriptures that God is the one who chooses who will be in office. Whether I vote or not, God has the last word.
Obama is His installation based upon the countries desire to have nothing to do with Him. They don't want God in their borders, so God sends a lean man to send leanness to their soul.
In doing that it creates a situation in the Church to either wake up or continue to fall away. As pressure mounts and laws are overturned and amended, we hide in the shadows waiting for the day the Lord will empower us ones again to do the impossible.
Everything that is happening in the world is for a purpose. Two wonderful things that should be evident.
1) The world is getting darker.
2) The believer is getting stronger.
It's a wonderful thing that the world is getting darker.
That means that Christ is going to shine even brighter than before. It also means that another harvest is ready to be reaped. More iniquity abounding means even more grace. It means that the Church will do exploits in ways we never thought possible. It means that the Church will also be persecuted terribly, but all these things will only makes us stronger and bond us together like never before.
We need these things to happen, it's for our good, and to His glory.
John 18:36
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
Acts 17:7
They are all defying Caesar's decrees saying there is another king. One called Jesus.
Philippians 3:20
For our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 11:16
Instead they were longing for a better country---a heavenly one.
Hope no one minds me quotin from the New Testament.
Bearmaster.
I hate it when you quote from the New Testament. It just burns my liver and giblet. NOT! ROFLHope no one minds me quotin from the New Testament.
Just to be sure, it would be best if we didn't work either. Working for the man, paying our taxes to Ceaser, obeying the laws of the land, sending our children to a godless public school system, etc.. etc.. Even Jesus paid His taxes so not to offend them.
Notice I didn't quote any New Testament scriptures, I figured that most should know them having the Holy Spirit in them.
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