Christians "stoned" at Dearborn, Michigan

sermonindex Jun 27, 2012

Christians pelted repeatedly with water bottles and assortment of other things at Michigan Festival.

Well I have been silent about the Muslim brotherhood taking power in Egypt. I have gotten the impression that certain stories really aren't wanted on this forum. Now we have another story of Christians proclaimng the gospel and also excercising freedom of speech in Dearborn. I was going to keep silent about this but my fingers just keep typing.

The Muslim crowd began throwing bottles and anything else that could be found at the christians driving them out of the festival.

The christians also looked to the police for help and ,,well yea not much help.

There will continue to be battles at Dearborn over Gospel proclamation and free speech etc.

Now hopefully some of you will take the time to go to ..oh jihadwatch.org for example to do a little research on this.

When you see the videos of whats going on I can almost guarantee the "they aren't doing right" or "thats not the gospel" responses will come up.

I would ask you to look beyond that and see this.

What is happening is a continual power shift of Arab muslims in this nation. The ultimate goal is to outlaw being able to speak to any muslim or anyone in America about becoming a christian.

This is really the heart of what has been happening at Dearborn.

According to the Newscaster on one of the videos the christian group will be back Sunday.

Edit for spelling

sermonindex Jun 27, 2012

Besides prayer, what exactly are you asking us to do about this?

L

learjet Jun 27, 2012

Hi Brother,

I live about 10 miles from Dearborn, 90% of the 'ministries' that you hear about on the news are people that love to grab headlines and create sensational press releases so that people will donate to their organizations. They could care less about the gospel, they care more about squealing like pigs to the media when they are 'persecuted'.

With that said there are some really good ministries in the area, there's a brother on this forum who is a full time missionary in Hamtramck, Michigan which is about 10 miles from Dearborn as well. You can read his blog here: http://networkedblogs.com/yRQCj Jonathan is a great, humble, wonderful brother that ministers to muslims.

sermonindex Jun 27, 2012

Besides prayer, what exactly are you asking us to do about this?

There have been many threads concerning the rise of Islam. The main thing wether it's Islam or Homosexual Movement or whatever immoral tidal wave that is assaulting the culture is to not be silenced.

Being Silenced is what the enemy wants more than anything.

So be informed, be prayed up and keep declaring the truth of Christ wherever and whenever you can!

Isa 24:14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
(KJV)

sermonindex Jun 27, 2012

If you go on youtube and type in "American muslims stone christians" then select the 22 minute original edit

Another reason for watching this is to see what so many were aloud to get away with. Also the young peaople in the video have now learned that they can push other Americans around and not get arrested by the police.

Also this is real street life so you will hear cursing and fowl language.

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

I've watched one of the videos on another site and all what these "Christians" were doing is standing up for their rights to free speech. They kept asking where was the "protection" from the police to protect their "right to free speech".

Is this the gospel, protecting one's rights to free speech?

There was no free speech in the time of Christ and the Apostles, in fact, just mentioning that there was another king, king Jesus was considered treason to Rome. They had God behind them and a ripe field ready for harvest. They hazarded their lives for the sake of the gospel, not for free speech.

The liberties that we have are strangling the believer, the best blessing to come our way is persecution. So what if Islam is invading our shores, what does that have to do with a people that is not of this world?

Our citizenship is in the heavenlies, in Christ, we have absolutely no rights in this world.

When they were persecuted, they rejoiced that they had suffered for His name sake, not cried to the Roman Senate demanding their "rights" to free speech.

When we stand as one, let all the forces of hell comes against us, for in that day, the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church, never.

They can bring in the Cankerworm, they can bring in the Catapiller, they can give the appearance that everything has been stripped down. They can take everything away from us, our rights, our freedoms, everything, but they can't take away our God Jesus Christ which is our true freedom.

I am done my rant. God bless you.

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

Free speech also means freedom of the press. It also means freedom to write about your faith on a blog. Freedom and liberty are what the Gospel is all about.

Now approved you have the freedom to believe what you believe on this subject. I respect an honor you as a fellow christian for that.

But our forefathers fought so hard on all levels for these freedoms. We are floating on the last vapors of it because many of us refuse to "Go, stand, Speak". I am not just talking about open air proclamation. I am talking about in your workplace at the store at the ballgame etc.

Now having said that I have to also say that we christians. are responsible for this generation. To proclaim practical liberty. to fear no man or government that tells us to "preach no more in this mans name"

The result of death to these liberties in Christ is death to spiritual liberty from sin. Also physical death to millions through so many evil works that invade when the proclamation of the gospel is not allowed.

one of many examples

The Salvation Army did alot of preaching with sighns and banners and such. They were constantly harrassed and beaten for public proclamation. But they kept on. And they also were instumental in keeping freedom of speach alive in England and America.

So let us be like our Lord and...

Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
(KJV)

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

I live about 10 miles from Dearborn, 90% of the 'ministries' that you hear about on the news are people that love to grab headlines and create sensational press releases so that people will donate to their organizations. They could care less about the gospel, they care more about squealing like pigs to the media when they are 'persecuted'.
With that said there are some really good ministries in the area, there's a brother on this forum who is a full time missionary in Hamtramck, Michigan which is about 10 miles from Dearborn as well. You can read his blog here: http://networkedblogs.com/yRQCj Jonathan is a great, humble, wonderful brother that ministers to muslims.

Amen.

This was a muslim festival and these people showed up with giant banners. One saying "the lake of fire".

In these muslim people's mind - from their view - it was their day. They probably had a permit for their festival.

There were other things about that video that I saw elsewhere early today that I didn't think were the way that we should go about reaching these people. And the timing of their "protest". That's basically how what they did came off looking like - a protest of what these people were there for. Their own festival.

The video that I saw was very disappointing and I agree with Brother Earl.
There's a right way and a wrong way and the wrong way is steeped with the wrong intention.
I myself - though I feared God before I heard the gospel - would have never been reached in that manner.
Their whining after the fact was a bad witness and would turn more unbelievers against true Christianity.

Going out with huge banners to a muslim festival is not the apostolic way.

Loving these people actively everyday would be a witness but there's so much hate speech in the world and on the internet coming from christians against muslims that they're the ones that feel persecuted - they just react diffirently but what do we expect from them - more perfection than the christians show?
On some "christian" forums - they're posting violence against these people since 9/11. How would you react if you weren't saved and was the target of that for over 10 years?

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

I believe that this fellow on the link below is the same fellow who was pelted by bottles and such by the Muslim crowd. Do you think it could have had something to do with the swine's head....[ a literal decapitated, real pig's head he preached through....] he held as he preached[condemned] the crowd. He is on my [friend]list over on Facebook and calls himself a street preacher. Rueben Israel is his name.

I can hear Paul now, as he heads into the street at Mars Hill...."Hey Timothy! don't forget porky! were gonna need some swine power today!...."Wow!..It smells in here!"

Anyway...I wonder if he was pelted for bad taste, or bad acting. Something is a little odd here...but he got a lot, a lot of publicity.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150964758205502&set=a.385648345501.163296.517075501&type=1&theater

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

But our forefathers fought so hard on all levels for these freedoms.

That is not in dispute.

All I am saying is that God would not have us fight for those freedoms, it's not apart of our makeup to do so.

We use them because they are there to be used that is the benefit of such laws. When those laws change and we no longer have them, do we stop exercising our freedom that is in Christ Jesus to proclaim the gospel?

An absolute NO!

Why?

Because we don't need the law to obey God.

However, in saying that, I respect your right to fight for what you believe to be right.

Thanks brother for responding kindly. :-)

P

pilgrim777 Jun 28, 2012

Maybe everyone should read once again how Jesus loved His enemies and how we who claim to have Christ living in us are to love our enemies, too.

(Thanks for the link, BrotherTom. The behaviour of those "Christians" is an affront to Christ's love for His enemies). How can anyone hear the Gospel when they see a pig's head being waved?

Jesus did not assert his rights because He gave them up and we are called to walk as He walked. We really have no rights that we fight "flesh and blood" over. We do have the God-given right to preach the gospel, the right to be persecuted and hated, the right to love our enemies in return, the right to speak the truth, the right to suffer for His sake, the right to be killed, the right to be robbed and mugged the right to overcome evil with good, the right to leave place for wrath, the right to not take vengeance out on anyone the right to NOT repay evil with evil, the right to do good to our enemies and even feed them, etc, etc. These are many of our rights from the Lord and I wonder how Christians like these right?

I think they prefer the U.S. Constitution's rights over the right (commandment) to walk as He walked, in being reviled He did not return reviling remarks to His persecutors.

I can see what is shaping up in this country. People that elevate the U.S. Constitution to the same level as God's Word or even higher are going to lean on the arm of the flesh and FIGHT for their RIGHTS, (even physical fights) because the U.S. Constitution gives them this liberty (not the liberty of Christ), even thought the Lord does not.

What ever happened to our warfare being spiritual and not with flesh and blood?

The U.S. Constitution gives us many rights that God does not give us. We don't have the right to pursuit open-ended happiness which to most Americans means abortions, divorce, etc. We don't have freedom of speech. God does not let us speak evil of this nation's leaders, but the Constitutional right of freedom of speech and freedom of the press allows us to gossip, backbite, lie and revile people.

Pilgrim

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

There is an official statement on the city of Dearborn site, This is a partial clipping from that page, the link is below for the full statement.

"The Background of “Acts 17 Apologetics” and the Dearborn Arab International Festival

A group called Acts 17 Apologetics, a Christian organization, became well-known following the 2009 Dearborn Arab International Festival because of videos it posted on “YouTube”. The videos show, from their point of view, some members’ impassioned discussion with a Muslim group and an incident with festival security guards, as well as other scenes at the festival.

The City of Dearborn believes the 2009 Acts 17 Apologetics videos are a distortion of the group’s experience and a misrepresentation of the Dearborn Arab International Festival.

In response, Dearborn Mayor John B. O’Reilly, Jr. hosted a meeting with the Dearborn Area Ministerial Association in September of 2009 to talk about the experience of Christian groups at the 2009 Arab Festival. Following that meeting, some pastors of Dearborn’s evangelical Christian community tried repeatedly to contact members from Acts 17 Apologetics and never received a response. These Dearborn evangelical pastors later issued a lengthy statement stating they believe in the right to spread the message of Christianity, but criticized the tactics and behavior of members of Acts 17 Apologetics, saying they did not reflect a Christian spirit. http://www.fairlanealliance.org/downloads/letter_concerning_acts_17.pdf

World renowned Christian minister, author, and speaker Josh McDowell, who has spoken to more than 10 million people in 84 countries, attended the 2009 Dearborn Arab International Festival and posted a video on “YouTube” on January 12, 2010 reflecting his experience at the Dearborn event.

At the 2009 festival, Josh McDowell also spent time filming, interviewing, and speaking to event attendees regarding Christianity. The video posting by Josh McDowell showed quite a contrasting view from the video posting of Acts 17 Apologetics.

source: http://www.cityofdearborn.org/news-and-events/press-releases/413-arab-fest-response

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

The group under discussion reminds me of Westboro Baptist Church and the so called Florida pastor who wanted to burn a copy if the Koran. These groups simply portray Christians as hate mongers. This message will not bring the Moslems to Christ.

Also for these Christians who are belly aching about being persecuted for Christ at this Moslem festival. Let them go to a restricted country and see what true persecution is.

Persecution will come to America. But let it be that we are persecuted as lovers of Jesus. Not because we are acting like jerks.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

Yes, "Westboro" is what's being said of them but it's reflecting on us all.

This whole thing is dreadfully sad because of the blow-back that this will have on the Good guys out there that are a true witness to Christ.

The 'pig head' video is out there and we all know how easy it is for human beings to sterotype classes of people.
Christians are being seen now as being like this crew.
The video on youtube is titled "Christian Extremists invade Dearborn Arab and Muslim Festival with a Pig's Head to harass families"

The reason there were eggs there to be thrown in the first place is because someone was ready for these guys because they went through this before at these Arab festivals.

The man holding that disgusting pig's head was obviously filled with hate - if you can read the body language expressed on his face.

I'm concerned for our brothers in MI now - very much. I almost want to tell them to move away from Detroit and Dearborn.

Actually, I wish everyone near a city could move away from the cities - and not only because of these men but because of the trouble that's coming.
I'm sorry to say these things in public - but the cities are dangerous when things break-down financially or otherwise.

I'd only feel better if we made a major agreement to fast and pray for our brothers and sisters that live in or near certain towns or cities.
With the passing of this health care by the SCOTUS - we need to gird ourselves for the direction this country is going in and be ready to help others get through.
We need to have our own houses in order and be strong for those that are not yet.

His Shalom to His Saints that Trust in our GOD of Glory - The LORD of hosts!

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

I dont have an opinion one way or the other about the ministries in question or whether they are right in what they are doing... I dont live there and dont know all of the facts.

This much I know, however... Paul had no problem exercising his rights as a citizen of Rome in the book of Acts. He exercised his Roman rights when he was in prison. So much so that when the jailers realized he was a Roman citizen their behavior toward him changed immediately. He also exercised his rights to gain an audience with King Agrippa.

When Paul saw that he was not receiving justice at the hands of these governors, he appealed AS A ROMAN CITIZEN to Caesar Nero for an opportunity to defend himself in the court of Caesar. In Acts 25 we read that King Agrippa II and his sister Queen Bernice came to pay the new governor, Festus, a visit in Caesarea. While they were there, Festus consulted with King Agrippa II as to what he should write on the charge sheet to be sent to Rome with Paul. When Agrippa heard that Paul was there, he requested Paul be brought before him to make his case.

Who got to hear Paul preach the gospel that day? King, queen, governor, the leading citizens of the city and leading Roman officials. That's who!

All because Paul knew his rights as a citizen and exercised those rights for the express purpose of furthering the gospel.

So please stop with all this "we have no rights" stuff. There is definitely Biblical precedence for exercising our rights in whatever country we are citizens of.

Krispy

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

It probably would be good to meditate through Acts 19 when Paul was in Ephesus. This was a city that was demonic and worshipped Artemis. Yet Paul did not act like a jerk. He preached the truth in power and love. The town clerk who quieted the rioting stirred up by Demetrius, said these men who have neither blasphemed our goddess nor robbed temples. Do we see some wisdom hee?

Even missionaries who go to foreign countries need to se common sense in respect for ones culture when presenting the gospel. If one goes to a religious culture and acts like a jerk in preaching Jesus. They will be persecuted. But it will be for being obnoxious. Not for following Christ.

Bearmaster

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

Bear... I agree. Mark your calendar!

Krispy

P

pilgrim777 Jun 28, 2012

When Paul saw that he was not receiving justice at the hands of these governors, he appealed AS A ROMAN CITIZEN to Caesar Nero for an opportunity to defend himself in the court of Caesar.

Act 16:37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.
Act 16:38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.

There is a big difference between appealing to the government for your "rights" as a citizen in a foreign country, and fighting with flesh and blood to keep your rights.

Israel was pretty much under martial law, occupied by a foreign dictator (Rome) and we never see Jesus Christ or the Apostles getting involved politically to change their way of life and they certainly did not get involved aggressively, picking up weapons.

And we also do not see the Early Church protesting, engaging in work stoppages, having sit-ins, or other "peaceful" acts of rebellion. Neither did they pick up arms to defend themselves. Prior to 250AD they would not even let you share communion or be baptized if you were a soldier under arms.

I don't know if you are on other boards/forums, but there is a lot of chatter about Americans "losing their rights" and people (Christians) are ready for civil war. My point is that Jesus Christ who is supposed to be living in us would not pick up arms to fight for or defend His "rights". He says, "My kingdom is not of this world, if it was, THEN would my servants fight, but it is not of this world".

Also, our fight is not with "flesh and blood".

Unfortunately, Americans subscribe to the myth that the Constitution is on equal terms with the Scriptures. That is carnal thinking.

2Ti 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, BE STRONG IN THE GRACE THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore ENDURE HARDNESS, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself WITH THE AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

When it comes right down to it, whatever the government gives to you it can take away. It has not been following it's own constitution for a long time so better to act like you don't have any governmental rights because all I see around America is Christians constantly complaining about rights they are losing and reviling leaders that are taking away their "rights".

So, I stand by what I said.

We have the right, to walk as Jesus walked and be treated as He was treated. We have the right to preach the Gospel and be treated unfairly by men.

1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

In this country, we are about to see political changes that will separate Christians. The ones that lean on the arm of the flesh to overcome their enemies and the ones that overcome evil with good and love their enemies, thereby allowing God to release redemptive grace from their lives.

We have forgotten that Jesus and the Apostles preached and lived non-resistance. (Not pacifism. Pacifism is humanistic and evil). Jesus was not a Pacifist.

Pilgrim

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

Bro I am amazed. You agree with ne. Ok I am marking my calendar. Blessings.

Bresux Besr.

sermonindex Jun 28, 2012

I believe that this fellow on the link below is the same fellow who was pelted by bottles and such by the Muslim crowd. Do you think it could have had something to do with the swine's head....[ a literal decapitated, real pig's head he preached through....] he held as he preached[condemned] the crowd. He is on my [friend]list over on Facebook and calls himself a street preacher. Rueben Israel is his name.

These men are not from the Lord but from the enemy. They coming in the Name of Jesus but preach another Jesus and another Gospel. They are full of hatred towards others and the love of God is not in them.

In a fuller video they started off by saying some of the most wicked things and cursing all the holy things of Islam, this is simply not the way to preach the Gospel to these people.

Though the reaction of muslims in the video show the sinful nature at full work in them and yet they go to mosque every week. So this hyprocisy is evident, yet the greater hypocrites are those that supposedly are coming in the name of the Lord.

May God show great mercy on all who heard them and send them true witnesses of the Gospel.

It is no doubt that persecution is coming and violent acts against Christians will happen in America. We must never cease to preach the everlasting Gospel and be meek as lambs.