Holy Ghost: Filled vs. Upon

T

Trekker Jul 7, 2012

Today in my reading in St. Luke i come upon something rather confusing: sometimes people are said to be FILLED with the Holy Ghost, other times the Holy Ghost is just UPON them.
See the following examples of Elizabeth, Zacharias, and
Simeon:

1. 41 And it came to pass that when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb;and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:...LUKE 1:41

2. 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,...LUKE 1:67

3. 25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. LUKE 2:25

Does anyone have any understanding of this discrepancy and what it might mean? Why were some filled and others "upon"?
And is there any difference in the gifts or service or spiritual makeup of a person who has the Holy Ghost only UPON them versus being FILLED? I am rather surprised that Old Testament Believers (that is, they were still living under the Old Testament cuz Christ had not yet been born nor died) would be FILLED with the Holy Ghost; previously i had thought that prior to Christ the Holy Ghost was only UPON Jewish believers. Is it possible that even today the Holy Ghost may be UPON some Christians but that others might be FILLED?

T

twayneb Jul 7, 2012

I don't think I would try to make too much of the terms upon and filled. Their usage is probably determined by context. However the Bible does make a distinction between the operation of the Holy Spirit under the old and new covenants. Prior to Pentecost there were few men who were said to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but often we find the Holy Spirit coming upon a man for a time or a season to empower him to accomplish a particular task. Obviously the prophets were moved upon by the Holy Spirit. We are told that the other writers of scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit as they wrote.

I think the key to this issue is to consider the purpose of Pentecost. When Jesus was on the earth, He operated as a man filled with the Holy Spirit. The term "Christ" means anointed one. So Jesus Christ means Jesus the one who was anointed by God. This anointing was the infilling and empowerment by the Holy Spirit of God. Look at John 5:19 and John 14:10, Matt. 3:13-17, Acts 10:37-38, Isaiah 61:1 and Luke 4:18-22.

It was God's purpose that all believers be empowered by the Holy Spirit in the same way that Jesus was. That is the reason Jesus made a statement as bold as He did in John 14:12-14. The same works that I do shall ye do and greater works shall ye do. Jesus said it was needful for Him to go to the Father so that He could send us the comforter (Holy Spirit). Later in John 14:17 Jesus said that the Holy Spirit had been with the disciples, but would be in them. You see, the Holy Spirit had been with them in that Jesus was with them and He was filled with the Holy Spirit. But when He ascended He was going to send the Holy Spirit to infill and indwell them. In Acts it is recorded that they would receive power after that the Holy Spirit was come upon them. And they did. They were filled with the Holy Spirit and walked in power and boldness. It is the same with us.

I cannot imagine why I would desire the Holy Spirit to simply visit me on occasion with power when the plan of God is that I be filled with, baptized in, the Holy Spirit.

T

Trekker Jul 11, 2012

QUOTE: "I don't think I would try to make too much of the terms upon and filled. Their usage is probably determined by context."==TWAYNEB

This is a very vague statement. Of course everything in the scripture is understood by context. But you have not provided any indicators that the contexts are different in this case.
You have failed to convince me that i should not think anything of the difference in terms.

QUOTE: "And they did. They were filled with the Holy Spirit and walked in power and boldness. It is the same with us."==TWAYNEB

So where are these Christians who walk in power and boldness? LOL! I have been in DOZENS of Christian churches and have never met ONE, not even ONE. Assembly of God,
Non-denominational, Baptist, Lutheran, Missionary Alliance, Methodist, Church of Christ...i've been in them all. In Multiples. They warm the pews, they sing songs, they go home and close their doors. What a joke. No, it is not the same with us.

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

Trekker

My understanding is the one must first be filled with the Holy Spirit in order for Him to come upon them at special times of ministry or witness.

Brenda

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

My understanding is the one must first be filled with the Holy Spirit in order for Him to come upon them at special times of ministry or witness.

I agree.

T

twayneb Jul 11, 2012

Lets see if I can clear up the vague statement. In Acts, Jesus is recorded as saying, "And ye shall received power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you...." The word is upon, yet we see by context that they were filled with the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. So the distinction, to me, is not so much whether the word used is filled or upon, but rather what the context of event says about what happened. That is why I said that the term used in this case is less important than the context within which the term is used. Upon in this case refers to a baptism, and infusion or infilling, or to being filled.

The second statement, that they were filled with power and boldness, and it is the same with us, is what should be the case, not what is the case in the life of every believer. From what you said afterwards, I think it is important to make a distinction. Some will not agree, and that is OK, but I believe that there is a definite experience ,subsequent to salvation, called the baptism of the Holy Spirit that Jesus was referring to in John, and that the 120 experienced on the day of Pentecost. See Acts 19:1-7. This is the infilling and empowerment that Jesus refers to in the book of John.

We cannot look at those around us and make a statement about the purposes of God by the experiences of man. Many believers fail to walk as they are intended to walk. Paul made a statement that mirrored this when he said, "Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?" You are right. Many simply fill pews and fail to walk in faith and power. But what of you and I? Do we also settle for that, or do we press in to God and allow Him to work through us as He desires to work through every believer?

Brenda and EverestoSama make a good point, I think. When we are filled with the Spirit we are now able to be used of Him in ways we could never have been used prior.

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

Some will not agree, and that is OK, but I believe that there is a definite experience ,subsequent to salvation, called the baptism of the Holy Spirit that Jesus was referring to in John, and that the 120 experienced on the day of Pentecost. See Acts 19:1-7. This is the infilling and empowerment that Jesus refers to in the book of John.

Agree again. I think beyond just a second filling though, it's a third, and a fourth, and a fifth, and however many times we're open to it when the Lord wills and the situation requires it of us (IE operation of the gifts).

G

ginnyrose Jul 11, 2012

In Bible School our instructors taught us that the terms "upon" and "filled" are informative.

In the OT one reads how the Holy Spirit was "upon" people. After Pentecost the Holy Spirit dwelled "within' the saints.

Does this make sense?

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

In the OT one reads how the Holy Spirit was "upon" people. After Pentecost the Holy Spirit dwelled "within' the saints.
Does this make sense?

For sure. Though I believe that since the New Testament that now it's both. :)

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

What I find funny with those that wonder where the great manifestations of the Spirit are or focus most on 'the gifts' - is that they sometimes are the very ones that don't want anything too tough or rough directed at them from anyone used in His Church. The slightest correction unravels them, nonetheless what they can read in the book of Acts - etc..
I actually do find that strange -- as one of the first Church Services opened with Ananias and his wife being Slain-by-The-Spirit.
The Ministry of the Two Witnesses should be looked at as well, to see if that's what they have in mind of the power and boldness of The Spirit of 'GOD' that they think is lacking in others [but not themselves?].
Maybe they do understand these apostles/prophets and Saints that were, are and are to come - but only as long as none of those gifts of discernment touch them personally?

T

Trekker Jul 12, 2012

QUOTE: "Lets see if I can clear up the vague statement. In Acts, Jesus is recorded as saying, "And ye shall received power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you...." The word is upon, yet we see by context that they were filled with the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. So the distinction, to me, is not so much whether the word used is filled or upon, but rather what the context of event says about what happened. That is why I said that the term used in this case is less important than the context within which the term is used. Upon in this case refers to a baptism, and infusion or infilling, or to being filled."==TWAYNEB

Thank you Twayneb. I think i understand, sorta. Thanks for clearing that up.

T

Trekker Jul 12, 2012

QUOTE: "Agree again. I think beyond just a second filling though, it's a third, and a fourth, and a fifth, and however many times we're open to it when the Lord wills and the situation requires it of us (IE operation of the gifts)."==EVERESTOSAMA

Interesting. And...would a person necessarily KNOW they are being refilled over and over at the moment it happens then? Or would they simply experience the gift that it brings?
Whatever the case, i don't believe i have ever met such a person. And i don't put any credence in any of the people i have met who spoke in tongues in my presence, as they always lacked a Christlikeness... but not showmanship.

T

Trekker Jul 12, 2012

QUOTE: "What I find funny with those that wonder where the great manifestations of the Spirit are or focus most on 'the gifts' - is that they sometimes are the very ones that don't want anything too tough or rough directed at them from anyone used in His Church. The slightest correction unravels them..."==JIG

Except what you pretend is "correction" is merely your critical spirit and judgemental nature; almost all your posts are spent judging others and critizing other posters. When did God die and leave you in charge of His church? I didn't get the memo. But of course, you are The Prophet.

Also, in terms of power, i was not meaning necessarily just the manifestation of gifts but of prayer, answered prayer, and empathy and compassion in the church (for the homeless, the poor, the lost, and the isolated).

sermonindex Jul 12, 2012

What I wrote is true, whether it hits a nerve in you personally or not and what I have seen in the Church at large - and why Paul and Barnabas had that sharp contention over John Mark -- because many are not prepared for what some of us here, that remain, will see when the two witnesses come.
They only know a "gentle jesus" and that view is more common than ever before in the history of the church.
It's your choice to make this personal, Trekker and have your personal opinion on a personal level - but I believe it's Time to recognise that the Spirit of Truth does not always come in the image that some would expect or 'prefer' and in the days to come - it would be Wise to be prepared and well read on how He has worked in the past and will again, more prevalently, as HE pours out His Spirit on the last days Saints. The darker it gets, the more Light will be needed and given.
There are some Scripture that point to a ministry of The Spirit that hasn't been seen in The Church - not in free and comfortable nations.

Most need to know how He has and will work so that they don't get up and leave as John Mark did - though Thank GOD - John Mark grew up in the LORD and was by Paul's side towards Paul's last days - in his last Epistle 2Timothy.

If you can see the point - How many do you know that are not ready for such manifestations?

Also, in terms of power, i was not meaning necessarily just the manifestation of gifts but of prayer, answered prayer, and empathy and compassion in the church (for the homeless, the poor, the lost, and the isolated).

I believe we are to be doing these things - Plus-some - and if we're not doing these ourselves 'Actively' and not just sitting at home having emotional feelings only and talking about it, but at least putting our money where our emotions are and if not - we shouldn't be looking to see if anyone else isn't.

Yes, an entirely different 'ministry' will rise up in the last days and it's best to be ready.

Good days - the best and the worst of days.

J

jimp Jul 12, 2012

hi, they were all in one place and one accord... the reason some do not see the great moving of the Spirit is that they do not have the faith to see . something could happen amazingly in front of them and they would not believe. agreement is important to God.i have seen many great miracles in my life and mostly in the same church. last month we baptized over 500 in one weekend.we have started over 20000 churches in the last 10 years.stuff like this is God driven and does not come from mans labors. we preach that you can receive the Holy Spirit to dwell in you.the dead have been raiseddrug lords have been saved,many healings and thousands saved.so. be filled with the Spirit speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs...jimp

sermonindex Jul 12, 2012

@Jesus-is-God

I think that your posts have been wonderfully and truthfully stated. I would have quoted what I liked, but would have probably just ended up quoting all of it, but I will say that this by itself is an excellent admonition;

Yes, an entirely different 'ministry' will rise up in the last days and it's best to be ready.

sermonindex Jul 12, 2012

Fellow in His Faith, I fear more than life itself or anything that life can throw at us future tense - that 'the church' has made two or three Gods out of The ONE.

"Jesus" Is 'THE GOD' of and through-out Genesis through Malachi, and The Revelation as well
- as you know - and also that I'm not speaking 'Jesus Only'.

Defend WHO He is! and Bless you for it!

T

twayneb Jul 12, 2012

Interesting. And...would a person necessarily KNOW they are being refilled over and over at the moment it happens then? Or would they simply experience the gift that it brings?
Whatever the case, i don't believe i have ever met such a person. And i don't put any credence in any of the people i have met who spoke in tongues in my presence, as they always lacked a Christlikeness... but not showmanship.

Trekker: There is a scripture that says we are not to be drunk with wine wherein is excess, but rather be filled with the Spirit. I have been told that that term "be filled" has the connotation of being in a state of continually being filled. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not simply a one time "experience". It is the coming of the Holy Spirit to dwell in me, to infuse every fiber of my being (much like making pickles) with His person. Through this baptism I now enter into a communion with God through the Holy Spirit. It is an ongoing experience.

As to your second comment, it sounds to me as though you might have had contact with some who walked carnally and perhaps have left a bit of a sour taste. That is unfortunate. But do not throw away the reality of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the ability to pray in tongues (which is a wonderful blessing from God that is made possible by the baptism of the Holy Spirit), and other manifestations of the power of God. I agree with Jesus-is-God. The goal is not the manifestations. There are those who chase after manifestations. Simon the sorcerer was one such person. He offered to pay for the ability to affect manifestations. Paul told him that his money could perish with him for thinking such a thing. However the manifestations accompany the infilling of the Holy Spirit as we walk in the spirit and allow God to motivate us with His agape love toward others and use us as He desires to use us. Showmanship is of the flesh. Genuine love of God and the operation of the gifts of the Spirit leave no room for pride and flamboyance. There is a great humility is realizing that I have been used of God to do something that I have absolutely no ability in myself to do.