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Is Mormonism a cult? How can you do this?

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Miccah Jul 10, 2012

Here is my question. Is Mormonism a cult?

If it is a cult, how can Christians vote for a Mormon? If we know that Mormonism is a cult, and that Mormonism is against the Lord, how can a Christian justify voting for someone that is an abomination to God?

Have we sunk so far in our own walks that we will overlook a little thing, like a satanic cult, in order to vote "conservative"?

Our next President of the United States could very well be a cult member. How can you sleep at night knowing that you may have helped place him in that position... A cult member?

sermonindex Jul 10, 2012

I do not vote for any elected official according to his faith, or lack of it, especially in Presidential elections, because there never have been any in my lifetime. I do look at the character, and veracity of a man, and how he may handle the office, in comparison to another; in this case, a man embracing abortion and wicked anti-Christ sentiments about a sodomite nation; and a Muslim, Obama.

Is it wrong to select the best man for the office, be it the lessor of two evils? I do not think it wrong. He is not my spiritual leader. I am commanded in the word to pray for my political leaders, and submit to to the law, but God first. I personally draw the line around Abortion, and after that, just look at politics as secular.

I challenge you to point out one Christian President ever. Abraham Lincoln published a small book denying the Divinity of Christ*, and Thomas Jefferson thought Jesus a great moral teacher, published a Bible with every reference to His Deity deleted.

*[ "When I left Springfield I asked the people to pray for me. I was not a Christian. When I buried my son, the severest trial of my life, I was not a Christian. But when I went to Gettysburg and saw the graves of thousands of our soldiers, I then and there consecrated myself to Christ. Yes, I do love Jesus." A. Lincoln


I believe Free-masonry to be much more evil than Mormonism, at least the equal in it's sinister traditions. Below is a list of Presidents who were Freemasons:
George Washington
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
James Polk
James Buchanan
Andrew Johnson
James Garfield
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
Howard Taft
Warren Harding
Franklin Roosevelt
Harry Truman
Gerald Ford

There were a lot of "affiliated" Presidents, but who knows the degree of Christian commitment?

List of Presidential religious affiliations (by religion)Baptist..............
Warren Harding
Harry Truman (Southern Baptist)
Jimmy Carter (Former Southern Baptist)
Bill Clinton (Former Southern Baptist)
Congregationalist..............
Calvin Coolidge
John Adams (later Unitarian)
Disciples of Christ...............
James Garfield
Lyndon Johnson
Ronald Reagan (also Presbyterian)
Dutch Reformed...........
Martin Van Buren
Theodore Roosevelt
Episcopalian............
George Washington
James Madison
James Monroe
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
Zachary Taylor
Franklin Pierce
Chester A. Arthur
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Gerald Ford
George H. W. Bush
George W. Bush (later Methodist)
Methodist..........
James Polk (originally Presbyterian)
Ulysses Grant (allegedly; his theology is unknown)
William McKinley
George W. Bush (originally Episcopalian)
Presbyterian...........
Andrew Jackson
James Polk (later Methodist)
James Buchanan
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Ronald Reagan (also Disciples of Christ)
Quaker...........
Herbert Hoover
Richard Nixon
Roman Catholic...............
John F. Kennedy
Unitarian..............
John Adams
John Quincy Adams
Millard Fillmore
William Howard Taft
United Church of Christ...............
Barack Obama (later no affiliation)

No denominational affiliation.............
Thomas Jefferson
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Grant
Rutherford Hayes
Barack Obama (previously United Church of Christ)
[ info from Wiki; ["Christian Presidents" ]

I believe that America is bound to be judged, and fall. This would not change if Paul the Apostle came, and was elected.

"Then the Lord said to me, “Even if Moses and Samuel stood before Me, My mind would not be favorable toward this people. Cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth."

Only a deep National repentance and a great turning to God would help us, and as a whole, we are committed to hate and defy Him, no matter what.

"But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts."

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Miccah Jul 10, 2012

That is a lot of fluff BT.

Your vote for Romney, is a vote for Satan and what the deceiver stands for. There is no justification around this.

All those other Presidents that you state, what has that to do with THIS current presidental race? What do those elections have to do with YOUR vote for a cult member?

Also, be careful calling President Obama a muslim, or you may be guilty of bearing false witness.

sermonindex Jul 10, 2012

Well, I made myself clear, when I said I voted for candidates on a secular level. I really like Reagan, and am conservative and like yourself, [ probably] am anti-abortion and pro-family. I may well vote for Romney as a better choice than Obama. Some one's got to run whats left of the catastrophe we find ourselves into.

As far as Obama being a Muslim, he spent the National day of prayer doing so in a Muslim mosque, and I heard him testify that in Islam he learned how to pray as a youth. The Muslim Messiah, Isa, was invoked at his inauguration by both Rick Warren and a Muslim cleric.

Obama seems to me to be more of a Muslim the either a Marxist, [ hard to believe]..or a disciple of Reverend Wright or Saul Alinsky, or a devotee to the sodomite left.

So, I vote my conscience, as I have thought it through. I am sorry you may see this as fluff. These men are not my Priests, nor do I follow their moral example; I follow Jesus. They just handle the money and governing process to keep my country afloat and orderly; hopefully.BT

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Miccah Jul 10, 2012

BT. Yes, I am conservative, pro-life and pro-family. :)

Since you stated the following "...I voted for candidates on a secular level."... Would this include voting between 2 Muslims candidates for President as well, if that was the choice?

I ask because it comes back to the basis of my question.

Thank you.

sermonindex Jul 10, 2012

Brother I share your sentiments. I have had go rounds with members of the forum over the rationale of voting for a Mormon cultist only to be told that they are not voting for a pastor but a president. Brother let them do as they wish. You will not change their mind. I have stopped engaging in these discussions.

I invite you to join our Sermon Index prayer calls. There we are engaging tin the true fight. We are advancing the kingdom purposes of Christ. We would love to have you come pray with us. Watch the board for call details.

Bearmaster

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mama27 Jul 10, 2012

I believe we should be very careful to not let this issue become divisive and heated. I live in a very politically-minded household (not myself personally, but others). I will have 6 young adults voting in the coming election so we are having much discussion over the issue in my home. I personally am wrestling with the issue a GREAT DEAL and can understand points on both sides of the issue (not normal for me as I am usually considered a pretty black and white person). True - we have to answer to God in our conscience, and yet to not vote for Romney, is in fact voting FOR Obama. His policies have proven to be evil beyond belief. I just think it is possible for very conscientious and thoughtful and conservative (TRUE) Christians to come down on different sides of the issue, and while we may not understand the other person's side, we should be careful not to have the Christians fighting each other on this thing....

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Miccah Jul 10, 2012

Mama27. The issue is that Romney is in a cult. Is anyone denying this fact?

If it is a fact that he is in a cult, how can a Christian vote for this man? How can someone seperate their vote from their beliefs without bastardizing those beliefs?

Let me put it another way, even if it may be a strawman...

If the presidential race was between 2 Muslims, would folks still pick "the lesser of two evils"? Or would they abstain or vote for someone totally different.

I would disagree that not voting for Romney is voting for Obama. Not voting for Romney is just that... not a vote for Romney/cult.

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mama27 Jul 10, 2012

I am not denying that Mormonism is a cult. I am inclined to be on the side that you take. I am only saying that it is a VERY difficult issue, and I think a person has to be convinced in his own conscience.

K
kjcword Jul 10, 2012

Miccah, bearmaster: I agree that Mormonism is most surely a cult. But, just because our current President claims to be Christian doesn't make it so. I thought that i was a Christian for years, but wasn't. Jesus said that we will know the tree by its fruit, right? What kind of fruit is abortion? It is no secret that our current President is the most pro-abortion President in history. He even co-sponsored a bill to allow doctors to kill a baby who actually survived an abortion. This is not Christian fruit. Sorry. Mt 7:17-23.
As far as who to vote for, my opinion is to vote for whoever is closest to our Christian values.

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ccchhhrrriiisss Jul 10, 2012

Miccah,

I believe that we should be very careful about accusing individuals of "voting for Satan."

Yes, Mitt Romney is a Mormon. Yes, Mormonism is a cult. So, the next President of the United States may very well be a Mormon. However, you could argue the same thing about our CURRENT president as well (*since he belongs to a Liberation Theology cult...and questioned the fundamentals of the faith in his own autobiography).

However, I have to wonder if you are placing too much emphasis on the role of the President and taking such a bipolar stance on the issue.

Do you ever go shopping? Do you openly and publicly scrutinize the grocery store's owners from which you purchase the groceries? Do you accuse the individuals who shop at the local Piggly Wiggly grocery store of giving money to Satan because of the religious background or faithfulness of the owners? Or what about the products that you buy? Do you question the faith of the farms that produces the milk, fruit, vegetables, etc... that you buy? Do you question the religious faith of the owners of ALL of the companies for which you make purchases of their products?

The same can be said of nearly everything that you do in life. Are you really meant to verify the faith of the owners or workers of the gas station where you buy your car's gas? Do you call Dell, HP, Gateway, Apple, Asus, Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, etc... to see where they stand in the faith before choosing to purchase one of their products?

Do you ONLY choose products that come from Christians?
Do you ONLY work for companies where all of your bosses will be Christians?

If we aren't careful, we will fall into the same attitude by which the Amish, Mennonites and others have in which they feel that "separation from the world" (ala Romans 12:1-2) comes in the form of complete physical separation and dealings only with those for which you can affirm their faith.

The problem, of course, is that it is difficult to validate ANYONE'S faith. There are individuals here on SermonIndex who are sometimes willing to dismiss the faith of believers who don't line up with every last doctrine that they believe.

In this case, we know that Mitt Romney is a Mormon and Barack Obama is part of a Liberation Theology adherent. There is no question that both of these religions are cults and do not embrace the fundamental teachings of authentic Christianity.

Yet, is making a choice over who would be the best for the next four-year position of "President" the same as embracing their cult?

My boss is not a Christian. My landlord is not a Christian. The guy who gave me my driver's test is not a Christian. Most of my teachers and professors were not Christians. The cashiers at the local Wal-Mart aren't Christians. The computer monitor that I am using was manufactured in a country with few Christians. The clothes that I wear and the cell phones that we use were manufactured by companies of which I have no idea whether or not any Christians worked. The same is true of most companies, restaurants, stores, and businesses that I have used. At one point, my parents weren't Christians.

Does this mean that it is wrong to interact with such individuals? If I am applying for a job, do I ask the potential employer giving the interview whether or not he is a real believer? And, do I quiz him to make certain that he is more than just a Christian in name only?

Likewise, the position of "president" is simply a four year SECULAR position of an executive to one third of the government (the Executive Branch). We don't select a "Pastor-in-Chief." We aren't endorsing the religious faith of that individual. Americans are simply selecting a man for a four-year secular position based upon policy choices that he wants to accomplish.

I believe that it is possible to separate some of the things that a man wants to do (decision-wise) and specific views about righteousness and unrighteousness from the spiritual views of that person. Most people don't endorse the man or EVERY belief of a man but certain beliefs of the man that he wishes to campaign upon.

If you needed to rent a house or an apartment, do you not take such things into consideration? If you had to choose between a house to rent in which one unbelieving neighbor plays loud music, walks around scantily-clothed, staggers around drunk and slaps around his wife and children...or the other which has an unbelieving neighbor who cares for his wife, lives with appropriate modesty and is quiet -- which one would you choose? Would it be "less spiritual" to choose one over the other?

No one here has denied that Mitt Romney is a Mormon. No one here embraces Mormonism. Most people are aware that Barack Obama belonged to a Liberation Theology cult for most of his adult life. No one here is embracing that.

However, I again think that you need to be careful about making absolute declarations when it comes to the decisions that real believers here will make in November. You can present your points. You can present what you believe the Word says on the subject. However, we should be careful about making absolute declarations when others are seeking to follow the Lord's lead on this subject.

Wouldn't it be better to present our views and then simply ask others to pray about the election in November? This way, we are allowing them to be led of the Holy Spirit and not what WE believe that the Lord thinks on the matter.

P
proudpapa Jul 11, 2012

Who I would fear as President!

John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, Martin Luther, Those who took political control after the Synod of Dordt, The Boston Puritans in the 1660s.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight


sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

Wise words Papa. Wise words.

Bear.

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Miccah Jul 11, 2012

Folks. Let us be clear. I will not be voting for Obama, nor will I be voting for Romney. When it comes to voting for the lesser of two evils, I choose none of the above.

Wouldn't it be better to present our views and then simply ask others to pray about the election in November? This way, we are allowing them to be led of the Holy Spirit and not what WE believe that the Lord thinks on the matter.

Sorry brother. But do not count on me to clear your conscience. I think that it would be better for me to listen to what I believe the Lord has placed on my heart regarding this matter, rather then not saying anything. If I would say nothing, then I would be more guilty.

Yes, Mitt Romney is a Mormon. Yes, Mormonism is a cult. So, the next President of the United States may very well be a Mormon.

Ok, so how is this even an issue? Have we fallen THAT far that Christians will vote for a cult member?

However, I have to wonder if you are placing too much emphasis on the role of the President and taking such a bipolar stance on the issue.

Do you ever go shopping? Do you openly and publicly scrutinize the grocery store's owners from which you purchase the groceries? Do you accuse the individuals who shop at the local Piggly Wiggly grocery store of giving money to Satan because of the religious background or faithfulness of the owners? Or what about the products that you buy? Do you question the faith of the farms that produces the milk, fruit, vegetables, etc... that you buy? Do you question the religious faith of the owners of ALL of the companies for which you make purchases of their products?

The issue at hand is none of the above. We are talking about KNOWINGLY voting for someone that is in a cult (Romney). He denies Jesus and the very thing that we hold most dear.

To answer your question about patranizing different places... Apples and oranges. If I know that a place I shop holds to a certain belief that is contrary to scripture, I do not shop there. Home Depot, Ford, Target are a few examples of places I will not shop due to their business model on gays and such.

The great thing is that shopping/marketplace is covered under 1 Corinthians 10:25-27. I see no where in scripture where the Lord tells us to knowingly try to get a cult member elected.


Well thought out post Chris. Yet, with all that you write, you cannot get past the point that a vote for Romney is throwing your support behind someone who denies Jesus...

And it seems that a lot of folks/Christians are comfortable with that.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Jul 11, 2012

Hi Miccah,


Sorry brother. But do not count on me to clear your conscience. I think that it would be better for me to listen to what I believe the Lord has placed on my heart regarding this matter, rather then not saying anything. If I would say nothing, then I would be more guilty.

I have never and would never count on you or any man to do that. In fact, I don't even know what motivated such a response in the first place. I do think that it is better to be careful and allow the Holy Spirit to have His work rather than simply telling everyone what we think and presenting it as the word of the Lord. If we pray sincerely pray, we can depend upon the Lord to guide us in such matters.


Ok, so how is this even an issue? Have we fallen THAT far that Christians will vote for a cult member?

....

The issue at hand is none of the above. We are talking about KNOWINGLY voting for someone that is in a cult (Romney). He denies Jesus and the very thing that we hold most dear.

To answer your question about patranizing different places... Apples and oranges. If I know that a place I shop holds to a certain belief that is contrary to scripture, I do not shop there. Home Depot, Ford, Target are a few examples of places I will not shop due to their business model on gays and such.

The great thing is that shopping/marketplace is covered under 1 Corinthians 10:25-27. I see no where in scripture where the Lord tells us to knowingly try to get a cult member elected.

The issue is about making choices. Why is it that some people are much more adamant about scrutinizing a man running for a four-year term for a job as president than we do when deciding to directly work for an employer in a job?

In your answer, you said that you judge a store by the BELIEFS that might be contrary to Scripture. So, if this is the case, then you probably don't shop at 99.999% of the grocery, department and internet stores out there, right? After all, we cannot know EVERY last belief of each and every store. And, of course, since this world is predominantly filled with unbelievers, the chances are pretty good that any store is either owned or operated by unbelievers. Or, do we refrain from judging those companies because we don't study and exert similar scrutiny to them as we do those who desire to serve in public office?

Like I said, believers aren't voting for the religious beliefs of an individual. They aren't voting for a pastor. They aren't endorsing a religious belief, a view on the person of Jesus Christ, or even the moral consequences of any particular faith. Americans are simply deciding which of two major candidates that they think would be a better fit for the four-year job as an executive in a government of consent. Most vote on what they know of the issues and considerations about morality/immorality/righteousness/unrighteousness (sort of like the beliefs when you speak of stores)...and choose the person who most adheres to those issues.

Still, I understand your qualms. I must say that I share some of those same concerns. I am certainly praying for Mitt Romney's salvation, as I have been praying for Barack Obama's salvation for several years. I am not even entirely certain whether or not I will vote yet. I haven't felt a strong inclination to not vote, but I will be praying all the way until the November election about the matter. Regardless of the election, I know that the Lord is still in control. No kingdom or nation can rise or fall without His notice.

Like David Wilkerson used to day, "It will all 'pan' out in the end."

The Lord bless you, brother!

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

Would be interesting to see how this all pans out in light of the Mormons' "White Horse" prophecy. Of course I only mean it within the full light of Deuteronomy 13.

"If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."

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wijnand Jul 11, 2012

I would say: don't vote at all... just pray for the leaders of your country. You can never vote on a man that is still in sin and darkness, no mather how much virtua he seems to have.

sermonindex Jul 11, 2012

Miccah has spoken truth and I commend him for it. I will go on record as standing with the brother. Let us stop this dancing around. Romney is a Mormon. He is in a Satanic cult. He is dead serious about his faith. A google search will reveal that.

Is anyone not aware how Mormonism came about? Do a google sesrch? This religion is just as wicked as Islam. Yet Christians want to give credence to this system by voting for a Mormon.

We speak of standing for the truth in this forum. Here is a clear opportunity to stand for the truth of Christ. And one will deny Christ by casting a vote for Romney. Why not just go on to say that one believes Mormonism is the truth. Because a vote for Romney will be conveying that.

Look saints. Be wise. We can lay no other foundation other than
that laid in Christ Jesus. If you claim to walk in his truth and stand in shadow of his cross how can you deny him by voting for a Satanist.

Really the solution is simple. Don't vote. Please don't compromise the gospel and your walk with Christ by giving credence to a Satanist. To do so will put your soul in oeril.

Posted by Bearmaster.

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Lysa Jul 11, 2012

Miccah wrote:
Our next President of the United States could very well be a cult member. How can you sleep at night knowing that you may have helped place him in that position... A cult member?

I sleep just fine!! One of our better presidents was Catholic and don’t you think that is a cult or something similar to it? The Catholic president had a LOT of sexual promiscuity going on and he was still a good president. No one has been able to find any sexual promiscuity in this Mormon running for president (or Obama would have found her or him by now).

How many unbelievers did God use throughout the Old Testament? God can use Romney as well for our good.

One thing I will cling to is that the Bible says to do ALL you know to do and then stand and see the salvation of the Lord (paraphrased). All I know to do is vote for Romney because I am NOT voting for Obama. If God doesn’t want Romney in, he won’t get in but it won’t be because I, Lisa Rock, gagged at a gnat (Romney being a Mormon) and swallowed a camel (four MORE years of Obama).

Just my calm two cents worth brother!!
God bless,
Lisa

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Miccah Jul 11, 2012

Chris,

Your postings are well thought out and very easy to understand. Thank you for that.

I want to focus on something that you wrote...

Regardless of the election, I know that the Lord is still in control. No kingdom or nation can rise or fall without His notice.

This is truth. I believe that most everyone on this forum wants to be on the side of the Lord and wants to walk in His truth. Hence the title "...How can you do this?"

Blessings brother. :)

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