proudpapa
Jul 12, 2012
What are your thoughts on Private covenant marriage without a Licence??
What are your thoughts on Private covenant marriage without a Licence??
Maybe another question that could be added to this also is in the early church how did they practice marriage and how did it work with the Roman Government in their days?
There is a Godly couple in our Church who recently got married without a licence, They where homeschooled raised without TV ,protected from alot of the trash that I was exposed to, They did a courtship rather than traditional dating. Both are very serious Christians whom felt that marriage is ordained by God and not the state. They Had both of there Fathers Do the service. Yet some in the Church where very offended that they did not get a licence, I even heard one person say well they will be living in sin then. I have to say Personaly, I find no conviction whatsoever that they are in the wrong.
I wouldn't say they're wrong per say, as long as it was done in front of witnesses before God. But why give any room for the devil to use any bit of it as a stumbling block for others with weaker faith (as you're already seeing)? That's between them and God though.
And it's not like marriage licenses are that expensive either.
Here's the main problem/danger I could see. What if some other couple with an entirely different backround and weaker faith were to see their choice and also take their example, saying, "We don't need a marriage license to be seen as married before God (which is true)," and get married in that fashion. But then things get rough, and are not as rosy sweet as anticipated, and I would imagine the VERY FIRST temptation in that relationship would be to say, "Well, we can call it off as just 'living in sin' and not 'divorce' as it's not like we were really married anyway."
That's one of the main things I can see where things might get sticky. But again, that's between them and God.
However, I think like Romans 12:17 says we should, "Respect what is right in the sight of all men."
Ya I see what you are saying EverestoSama, There Marriage ceremony was some what traditional with over 200 guest and I think they signed a covenant, I think in a Bible. Most people did not know they where not getting a licence so I doubt it would effect many. But you do bring up some good thoughts.
Greg wrote //Maybe another question that could be added to this also is in the early church how did they practice marriage and how did it work with the Roman Government in their days?//
that would be an interesting study. What information do you have on those questions??
Years ago I read this article online. I do not know anything about the writer nor his church, but he does make some valid points against getting a marriage license. (Google: Five Reasons Why Christians Should Not Obtain a State Marriage License by Pastor Matt Trewhella)
The reality is that the act of acquiring a marriage license is something of more recent origin. In the USA it began after the War Between the States in order to limit interracial marriages.
To me* it is not a salvation or holiness issue. What is a holiness issue is that a couple remain pure until after the time has been recognized by their family, friends, and acquaintances that they are now married and that this relationship can now be consummated by the sexual act. And in this context this is pure!
My understanding...
*EDIT: I do not find any scripture that would speak to this issue that would give one direction about whether one should get a marriage license.
Years ago when Michael Pearl's daughters were getting married he wrote this.
None of my daughters or their husbands asked the state of Tennessee for permission to marry. They did not yoke themselves to government. It was a personal, private covenant, binding them together forever—until death. So when the sodomites have come to share in the state marriage licenses, which will eventually be the law, James and Shoshanna will not be in league with those perverts. And, while I am on the subject, there will come a time when faithful Christians will either revoke their state marriage licenses and establish an exclusively one man-one woman covenant of marriage, or, they will forfeit the sanctity of their covenant by being unequally yoked together with perverts. The sooner there is such a movement, the sooner we will have a voice in government. Some of you attorneys and statesmen reading this should get together and come up with an approach that will have credibility and help to impact the political process. Please contact me when you do and I will assist with publicity.
Here is the link:
http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/the-wedding/
Why do we need the State's permission to get married? But, I don't understand how we are yoked together with Sodomites.
In America, when you get a birth certificate, you are an automatic "ward" of the state.
In Arkansas, they have provision for no marriage licenses. They do support marriage covenants.
We knew some people that did not get birth certificates for their children, but how will they get drivers licenses?
Pilgrim
Pilgrim: I don't think that article (statement, whatever) makes much sense at all...I would never revoke my marriage license because homosexuals can get them, and if we did, it certainly wouldn't give us a voice in government, it would make us look more looney than we already do to many. Having one doesn't "yoke" you any more than having a drivers license or fishing license... As though homosexuals or "perverts" as he so graciously put it have some sort of disease we don't dare come near... Don't you think an act like that would simply solidify to homosexuals how little the church wants to do with them? Or have we simply given up on them, counting them unworthy of the same grace we were shown? (rant over)
I think getting one is best, but not getting one is fine, though for the sake of our "weaker" brethren should keep it ourselves when necessary.
Perhaps there's an issue of context I don't understand, not being American, but can I ask how the discussion arises? In my country, cohabitation (in the legal sense, which is how I understand marriage without a license to function) is viewed as the same as marriage after enough time... this effects matters of taxes estate, etc. The laws that attend divorce obviously don't apply the same way, though.
So I wonder if, in the American context, the notion of private convenant is different than cohabitation when viewed from the state's perspective. Is the issue only concerned with the license, or does it follow through with matters of taxes and estate and such? Does the couple file taxes together? Would they identify as married on a census?
When my wife and I married, we went to city hall to purchase a license and then at an entirely different time had a ceremony at our church with our families and community. The two acts were not related in our minds, one was a matter of law and formality, the other was the true act of making a commitment to each other in celebration with those we loved.
I am very interested to hear more about this, as it is entirely new to me as a phenomenon.
What a very interesting discussion! Is such a marriage "legal" though? Would the courts or any institution recognize it? What an interesting concept. I bet their vows are stronger than the ones that bought marriage licenses and did it the world's way. It almost seems that by buying a license for marriage today....that you are submitting your marriage to man and his laws rather than to God and God's laws. Just a feelin.
Pilgrim: I don't think that article (statement, whatever) makes much sense at all...I would never revoke my marriage license because homosexuals can get them, and if we did, it certainly wouldn't give us a voice in government, it would make us look more looney than we already do to many. Having one doesn't "yoke" you any more than having a drivers license or fishing license... As though homosexuals or "perverts" as he so graciously put it have some sort of disease we don't dare come near... Don't you think an act like that would simply solidify to homosexuals how little the church wants to do with them? Or have we simply given up on them, counting them unworthy of the same grace we were shown? (rant over)I think getting one is best, but not getting one is fine, though for the sake of our "weaker" brethren should keep it ourselves when necessary.
That is why I was asking.
I guess Mike was saying that if all Christians support the Government in the sense that they agree with the government that the only valid marriages are those that are sanctioned by the government, then when the government passes a law that extends marriage licenses to Sodomites (biblical term), that is how we are yoked to them.
But if we believe Marriage is an institution of God, why do we need the Government to sanction and validate it? Because the government controls everything in our lives and ties many things to Marriage Licenses (health insurance, property, taxes, drivers license, etc). They don't have to tie things to a Marriage License but they do.
Pilgrim
As I understand it, any license is a tax. ?? I presume fees vary according to state.
Many states do recognize common law marriage between a man and woman as a legally binding union. The requirements vary from state to state such as amount of time living as man and wife, age, etc. Of course in some states there is no provision made at all.
I've often wondered why proponents of ssm have not in the beginning fought to obtain these particular legal rights in given states. Seems they would have much less adversity and then if and when that step was achieved more weight to push for what we now call a marriage. Just thoughts of course.
In my personal opinion the purposes for the license apart from funds obtained as a tax is simply a matter of convenience for the state. It enables the courts to make legal rulings concerning joint property, alimonies, child support, separate maintenance, etc. when such unions are dissolved. Some states do not recognize or have no joint property laws. The legal issues are huge.
Christians might want to consider biblical teaching concerning our responsibility to state law. Just my 2 cents.
by proudpapa
What are your thoughts on Private covenant marriage without a Licence??
I read an article(1) that said that marriage licenses weren't a common practice until the 1900's so I don't understand why some are against this after only 112 years, even God didn't require licenses!
What technically do you need one for, since no one officially ever asks to see it? When I have acquired any new job and wrote down who my spouse was, no one ever questioned me about it or asked me to produce a marriage license; have they you? And while divorcing, I honestly don’t remember having to produce one either (but I could be wrong, I’ve slept since then, it’s been awhile). So really what good are they?
(2)
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=333&discuss=1
(3)And one from theology.edu!!! Ancient Israelite Marriage Customs:
http://www.theology.edu/marriage.htm
God bless,
Lisa
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