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Wanted: Saints advice for overcoming, baptism in the Spirit, Dark Night

sermonindex Jul 16, 2012

Hello Saints

I have recently come to a mountain in my walk. I believe the Lord is leading me into a big trial but last time I faced it I felt like it was too hard. Where's my faith, right?

Can the saints here give their testimony about a hard trial they went through and what helped them get through it? Also if you have a testimony on your dark night leading to the overcoming life feel free to share.

Please do share. I come here because I haven't found anybody in my church with a desire to pursue the things of God with "all their heart" or "all their life" so to speak.

Its a blessing to be here and I appreciate all your spiritually discerned thoughts and advice.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2012

When I consider the end of this trial, the free flowing Spirit in my life in God's will... I get frightened. I'm so unworthy of it. I'm so unworthy of God pouring out His lovingkindness to me and through me. I have known what it feels like. Its so incredibly tender and amazing. I could go on but I wanted to add that.

T
tbsounde2 Jul 16, 2012

Hey Noah, although I may not know the intricate details of what you are going through, I just wanted to encourage you to press on because He promises to work ALL things for the good. I am sure it must be extra hard not being able to find people in your church to confide in, but I think it's a privilege to be taken into the wilderness to wrestle with God and meet with Him one on one so to speak =)
It's a place where your faith really blossoms to deeper maturity and stability on the promises of His Word.

Personally, for me, it was about a year and a half ago that God took me through a very dark time in my life. I was at a point where I felt like everything was being stripped from me: passion for revival, reading the Word, serving at church, friends, and christian music. A deep melancholy came over me and I began to find everything meaningless. At this time, I was also wrestling with a lot of things going on at my church, and was also beginning to question a lot of popular movements that I and the people around me were involved in (ihop and bethel church, etc). I felt completely alone because no one at church understood what was going on. I remember sometimes I would just sit up on my bed for an hour starring out into space feeling a sense of despair and hopelessness. I also got really really sick during this time and was not able to sleep at night. It was very very difficult because the very things that were supposed to hold me up (the Word, prayer, etc) seemed to be removed from me. It was also during this time that I had come to a point of desperation seeking to meet with God and for my life to be conformed to the promises of a pure and holy heart and mind promised in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 11 and 36. I really felt that God had failed me in these promises and that the more I sought Him, the more distant He seemed to get. I had also been trying to systematically remove unnecessary things from my life like secular music, movies, games, etc (not out of a religious mindset but to really live out romans 12:1 and to have the same heart when David said far be it from to sacrifice to the Lord something that costs me nothing). So I had come to a place where I literally had no outlets and places to run to and had to wait upon the mercy of God...and He seemed to be delaying to come to my aid. My mind would remember how it used to be before, when my heart was filled with passion for Him and He seemed so near; these very memories now like a ghostly apparition hauntingly reminding me of how far I have fallen from that place. When I prayed asking God to meet me and speak to me in my dreams, I would get nightmares. Temptations seemed to get stronger and felt I was literally at the very limits of my faith. But the interesting thing was that way way back in my soul?(mind/heart?) there was a small but steady assurance that God would lead me through, that God would lead me through. It was like one tiny microscopic area of calm in the midst of a F5 tornado. But eventually, after God brought me out of this dark time, I really began to understand what faith is. that true faith is when everything begins to fall apart around you; when you own body begins to deteriorate, your own mind begins to deceive you, and your own heart falls out on you, that you can still trust in the promises of His Word which stands firm on His unchanging character demonstrated throughout the scriptures. Once again, that faith is simply to believe in the promises of His Word, that God is faithful and just to those who lean upon Him. Because He chose to love us in spite of us, not because of our works, but because of His grace...

I really hope this encourages and strengthens you in some way...

Also some verses that have been a blessing to me during my 3 month craziness which i hope can be an encouragement to you as well...

Matthew 15:21-28
21 (AC)And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, (AD)a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, (AE)“Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, (AF)“Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, (AG)“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and (AH)knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and (AI)throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat (AJ)the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, (AK)great is your faith! (AL)Be it done for you as you desire.” (AM)And her daughter was (AN)healed instantly.[e]

Luke 18:9-14, 35-43
9 He also told this parable to some (L)who trusted (M)in themselves that they were righteous, (N)and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men (O)went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, (P)standing by himself, prayed[a] (Q)thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 (R)I fast twice a week; (S)I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, (T)standing far off, (U)would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but (V)beat his breast, saying, ‘God, (W)be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For (X)everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

35 (BE)As he drew near to Jericho, (BF)a blind man was sitting by the roadside begging. 36 And hearing a crowd going by, he inquired what this meant. 37 They told him, (BG)“Jesus of Nazareth is passing by.” 38 And he cried out, “Jesus, (BH)Son of David, have mercy on me!” 39 And those who were in front (BI)rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!” 40 And Jesus stopped and commanded him to be brought to him. And when he came near, he asked him, 41 (BJ)“What do you want me to do for you?” He said, “Lord, let me recover my sight.” 42 And Jesus said to him, “Recover your sight; (BK)your faith has (BL)made you well.” 43 And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him, (BM)glorifying God. And (BN)all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began (H)a good work in you (I)will bring it to completion at (J)the day of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians
13 In him you also, when you heard (B)the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, (C)were sealed with the (D)promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is (E)the guarantee[a] of our (F)inheritance until (G)we acquire (H)possession of it,[b] (I)to the praise of his glory.

Romans 8:16, 26-39
16 (AD)The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For (AU)we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but (AV)the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And (AW)he who searches hearts knows what is (AX)the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit (AY)intercedes for the saints (AZ)according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together (BA)for good,[h] for (BB)those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he (BC)foreknew he also (BD)predestined (BE)to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be (BF)the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also (BG)justified, and those whom he justified he also (BH)glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? (BI)If God is for us, who can be[i] against us? 32 (BJ)He who did not spare his own Son but (BK)gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? (BL)It is God who justifies. 34 (BM)Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—(BN)who is at the right hand of God, (BO)who indeed is interceding for us.[j] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, (BP)“For your sake (BQ)we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than (BR)conquerors through (BS)him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

hebrews 11:1,6

1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of (A)things not seen.

6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God (I)must believe that he exists and (J)that he rewards those who seek him.

all of psalms, haha

also, a book I would recommend that has been a huge blessing to me:

Thomas Watson - All things for good

but yah, Noah, I sincerely pray for God to strengthen you and lead you by the hand through this time. I wish I could do more to help but in all truth you are in the best of hands in Christ. Never lose sight of Him and seek Him even to the very last drop because He promises to meet with those who seek Him and save those who put their trust in Him and not a single one of His Words have ever fallen to the ground. He is faithful =)

God bless and strengthen you brother Noah

your brother in Christ,

Will

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Thank you Will for the response.

"It's a place where your faith really blossoms to deeper maturity and stability on the promises of His Word."

"25 But she came and (AH)knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.”"

Blessings

Noah

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Will wrote: "But the interesting thing was that way way back in my soul?(mind/heart?) there was a small but steady assurance that God would lead me through, that God would lead me through. It was like one tiny microscopic area of calm in the midst of a F5 tornado. But eventually, after God brought me out of this dark time, I really began to understand what faith is. that true faith is when everything begins to fall apart around you; when you own body begins to deteriorate, your own mind begins to deceive you, and your own heart falls out on you, that you can still trust in the promises of His Word which stands firm on His unchanging character demonstrated throughout the scriptures. Once again, that faith is simply to believe in the promises of His Word, that God is faithful and just to those who lean upon Him. Because He chose to love us .... "


Beautiful testimony!! I've read many great men of GOD write on these things and all say basically the same thing. They learned what believing is, despite circumstances.
I've understood in my own life as well - that every time I'd reach a new mountain 'height', that there would be a valley around the turn so that GOD could take me higher or deeper still -- but Satan would always whisper to me, "Don't go any higher or deeper - because you'll pay for that - I'll make you pay - I'll attack - you'll pay for it - the closer you allow yourself to or try to get to Him."

I remember fighting that threat or fear and then finally telling the LORD in 1994 or so - "I don't care what happens to me - I want to know You more and see, hear, whatever it is that You can or want to show me - no matter the cost."
Well, the cost was great - but was a major turn in the road and the fear of anymore of these threats from Satan about "getting too close" went away. Have had lows since, but the fear of the enemy that was trying to stop me from pursuing more has gone away. That big plunge after that prayer of complete resignation to His Hands was a major leap and what happened after that was beyond words as far as "dark times" - but it wasn't until I told The LORD that I didn't care if He sent me to Hell, I wanted to die with the Saints and not go the way of the sinners - and it began to break. Alleluia.
He wanted to take me beyond 'me' and my own desires to just knowing Him for Himself and not for myself.
Now, when I'm attacked, it's just like Will said above ... that way, way deep inside, there's that bit of assurance that no matter what - He's with me and I have no will to turn away because that part seemed to have been settled during that big adventure. I was saved almost 20 yrs when that big adventure came, when I told GOD - "Do what you want - I don't want to listen to Satan telling me I shouldn't want to go deeper with you."

I fully agree with Will - it's to teach us what 'faith' really means ... as Will described 'faith' in his post and in my case with that big adventure in '94 - I stopped fearing Satan's threat that if I sought to go deeper - that he'd make life hell on earth for me. Well it was - but it sure was worth it - but the fear of going deeper still is gone. Praise The LORD of Glory! :)


Love to you both, and to all of His Saints.

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Thank JIG. That's the main reason I backed down last time the trial came up. I feared the devil was too strong, and he won. The trial is basically praying all night seeking God though I get very tired. At least that was what it was. And when I get weak the devil comes around...

Blessings

Noah

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

You can desire GOD with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength and not necessarily have to deprive your body of that much sleep. I'm a night-owl because that's when it's always been quiet everywhere that I've lived. I do watch the sunrise sometimes, but I do get some sleep after that. If I can get 6 hrs sleep, than I can function better while I need to be awake and doing things.
I know that Jesus and others have stayed without sleep, but I don't recommend it for people that aren't 100% healthy in every way. You need to sleep and eat the right things and so do I. I don't eat much, but I don't go below the weight I'm supposed to be. I take vitamins too so that I can serve Him in other ways.

Do you reckon that GOD may be bringing you through something for the same reason He allowed it with me - so that I'd not "fear" Satan anymore?

He couldn't tempt me to backslide or go into new sins or anything but he just wanted to have me fear going any deeper with GOD.
Maybe that's the fear he's working on you - and GOD wants to rid you of ANY fear of Satan.
Jesus said, we need not fear anything nor anyone but Him.
He crushed Satan on Calvary.
Satan can only lie in our ear, so to speak.
He speaks the opposite of GOD's Word.
Though GOD allowed me to see the full darkness of Satan's kingdom in that adventure - I also learned to not fear Satan anymore.

I pray that for you my Friend and I pray that it come through His Word ... as faith comes by hearing.
Stay in His Word, write the fortifying verses in a notebook and get adequate sleep and Know He Loves You because He created you to love.

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Well it was one of those times when Satan comes against me in full force because of the increase I was making in Christ (by grace of course). I had been praying hours that day and evening came and the Lord said keep praying and I said "I can't I'm too tired". The Lord may well be trying to break me more than get me to pray all night. He usually has many purposes for His will depending on how we do. Rom 8:28

He definitely wants me to not fear Satan and I did get that from your post and also insights from MaryJane's post
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45772&forum=35&3
When I stumble in the flesh my faith to overcome in the evil day lessens. But when I am in the Spirit I don't fear death.

Anyway, again Satan comes at me with full force when I seek God with all my heart. If I break through it means his loss so its understandable...

Going to get into the word right now.

Thanks for your prayers

Blessings

Noah


"Know He Loves You because He created you to love."

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Noah if you look for the enterhisrest site you will find a whole pile of writings from people who have trodden your path and found victory.

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Thank you Krautfrau. can you recommend one particular article to start me off there?

Otherwise I will dive in at some point.

sermonindex Jul 17, 2012

Well you could start at Central Idea or Introduction. There is a lot to read but the site owner gives directions.

blessings
Brenda

sermonindex Jul 18, 2012

I think you might relate well to a book called 'The ascent of Mount Carmel' by St John of the Cross. Be sure to get a E Allison Peers translation.

D
dirving Jul 20, 2012

The Lord brought me through a similar experience. It began shortly after He revealed Himself profoundly to my heart & I had experienced a release from sin's bondage. What followed was a lengthy period of heaviness, dread, nightmares, and (most difficult) an overwhelming sense of perplexity of mind. I have numerous journals recording my day-to-night-to-day strivings of soul. There were various things I found comfort in, e.g. "The Lord knows if I am one of His sheep". I found comfort in praying for others, particularly fellow-believers during this time. Also the writings of Andrew Murray seemed extremely valuable, particularly his book "Abide in Christ". Eventually light began to appear and I have a new sense that nothing can hurt me. For if I suffer as one of His, He provides comfort that more than compensates. Set your eyes upon the Lord Jesus Christ, His lowliness, His gentleness, and His sacrifice for you on the cross. Your light will dawn. (see Isaiah 35) Dan

L
learn Aug 8, 2012

This thread is so important. Currently undergoing something (though not exactly similar as the above experiences).

If anybody has anything to share that will be great

sermonindex Aug 11, 2012

Dear Noah,

About 27 years ago, I prayed that I would know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death (Philippians 3:10). I was a very dedicated, sincere follower of the Lord, living "my" 100% for Him. I look back now and smile at my naivety.

The past 20 years have included intense trials and tremendous pain, many nights all I could cry out was "Help!" Not only did my fellow Christians not understand, some were convinced I was being cursed or was reaping from some secret sin. Slowly, my wounds became too messy my friends' American Christian way of life (Psalm 38:11). Thank God I was blessed with two outstanding, mature, spirit-filled Pastors/Mentors who prayed with me and for me on a daily basis.

If God has called you to the 100-Fold life (Matthew 13:23) and waters to swim in (Ezekial 47:5), these trials will whittle away at your Adamic, self-willed nature and a new creation in Christ will take its place. As horrific as my experiences have been, it’s through them that the Lord has taught me to lay down my life, take up my cross, and follow the Him. He knows that His will ALWAYS comes before mine, and He has tested my obedience many times to make sure :).

Continue to study your Bible, pray – a lot, and repent from any sins that God brings to light. Some Christians confuse the sufferings of Christ with sowing and reaping; the two are very different.

You may see your mountain as an anthill many years from now, but if you are not faithful in the little, the Lord will not trust you with the greater things. And faith, like all the gifts, is exercised like a muscle - we don't start out benching 300 pounds, but build up to the heavy stuff. I know it's hard, but keep at it and the climb will become a way of life. The rich, loving relationship with the Lord far outweighs our “light and momentary afflictions.” And who can even imagine the thrill of hearing Jesus say, “Well done, good and faithful servant?”

I hope this encourages you. Reading biographies about Christians who have suffered severe trials were of great encouragement because it would not only put my American-style suffering into perspective, but build my faith seeing how God carried them through and the wonderful fruit that resulted.

sermonindex Aug 11, 2012

When I think of the Dark Night of the Soul, I think of 3 major scripture bundles:
1. The entire book of Job.
2. Much of the life of David and the Psalms he wrote glorifying God in the midst of these dark circumstances.
3. The general life of Paul; and all of his intense sufferings; especially 2 Corinthians 1.

"For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead."

I believe that any Christian that goes on with the Lord, will one day have to realize that the blessedness aspect of being a child of God is not the essence of our being redeemed; it is to become CONFORMED to His image; to be Forged into an authentic son, or daughter of Christ, bearing Christ Jesus' image within them, shining it out to the world.

This is a much understood , bewildering experience when it begins to happen; I cannot put a time line on it, but usually a few years after salvation; The Honeymoon Period with Jesus. I had one; I would wake up in the presence of the Lord, live in my Bible all day, and walk with him in odd ways, where it seemed I was guided around by Him all day long.

And then: the sound of the whirlwind....

It must be lonely, No one can walk with your feet, or believe in your heart for you.Let us consider Psalm 23:

I AND ME.

"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Yea, though I walk through
the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil:
or thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever."

I never thought I could ever become depressed; until I was. I could not lift my head up to pray, or even read my Bible. I just gave up, and stumbled back to bed to hide under my pillow. No Presence, No glory, but a burning cloud over my head, [ "Like dirty socks!" one young believer said years before.:)]

Some things are to personal, to complicated to just throw out there about the "Dark night", but yes; it is unavoidable; IF, God has His hand on your live. You, like Isaac, MUST be slain. [ Was Isaac bewildered?]

Things that have helped:
Worship...........................
God seeks Worshippers , and those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. We must develop a secret worship life; a voice, that He recognizes, that is only His and ours. Here, I think of King David; the failure.

Carnal and weak; but he never gave up on Mercy, and he knew it, because from a young boy, he loved worship of his God.

Resolve and Honesty with God........................

"Wherefore do I take my flesh in my teeth, and put my life in mine hand?

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him."........................

"Pour out your heart before Him." in a spirit of worship and praise; alone, in your daily life.

An odd thing I know about God; Without overcoming this cloud, I could never know Him; It is as necessary as the rain.

Odd thing about the chicken; awakening alone in complete darkness. It begins instinctively to peck away at something, until a sliver of light appears. It is a crack! It then becomes devoted to the peck, more and more until a hole is large enough, and the glorious light floods through, for the first time! I Live! she peeps; but whew! that was hard.

I have heard that if you remove this struggle from the chick, and do it yourself, and remove the egg shell from the babe, he will surely die. The struggle, and the resolve, form the muscles to walk, and function, and without them, you have retardation, a weakling, who cannot endure physically in the world.

This kind of reminds me of some Christians I have known, who refuse but to believe that the Christian Walk is all about being BLESSED! They receive all opposition in life, as an attack of Satan, not realizing that God has set you here, for your sake, and others, to implant in you HIMSELF, to set you on high.

JOSEPH: A boy, 17 or so, betrayed and abandoned, enslaved, and imprisoned...forever it seemed, and in it all he believed, and trusted. He may have read Job, the oldest book in the Bible, I do not know, but somewhere he knew that God was God, and it was OK!..and he rode it out without cursing God, as also Job.

"If we suffer with Christ, we shall reign with Him."

I think that without these fibers of endurance and faith, we may stand before Him and then realize that we really never knew Him, and hear the most terrible words ever spoken; "Depart from me. I never knew you!"

Jesus is in the fire with us, and knows our heart.


sermonindex Aug 11, 2012

When I think of the Dark Night of the Soul, I think of 3 major scripture bundles:
1. The entire book of Job.
2. Much of the life of David and the Psalms he wrote glorifying God in the midst of these dark circumstances.
3. The general life of Paul; and all of his intense sufferings; especially 2 Corinthians 1.

"For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead."

I believe that any Christian that goes on with the Lord, will one day have to realize that the blessedness aspect of being a child of God is not the essence of our being redeemed; it is to become CONFORMED to His image; to be Forged into an authentic son, or daughter of Christ, bearing Christ Jesus' image within them, shining it out to the world.

This is a much understood , bewildering experience when it begins to happen; I cannot put a time line on it, but usually a few years after salvation; The Honeymoon Period with Jesus. I had one; I would wake up in the presence of the Lord, live in my Bible all day, and walk with him in odd ways, where it seemed I was guided around by Him all day long.

And then: the sound of the whirlwind....

It must be lonely, No one can walk with your feet, or believe in your heart for you.Let us consider Psalm 23:

I AND ME.

"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Yea, though I walk through
the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil:
or thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever."

I never thought I could ever become depressed; until I was. I could not lift my head up to pray, or even read my Bible. I just gave up, and stumbled back to bed to hide under my pillow. No Presence, No glory, but a burning cloud over my head, [ "Like dirty socks!" one young believer said years before.:)]

Some things are to personal, to complicated to just throw out there about the "Dark night", but yes; it is unavoidable; IF, God has His hand on your live. You, like Isaac, MUST be slain. [ Was Isaac bewildered?]

Things that have helped:
Worship...........................
God seeks Worshippers , and those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. We must develop a secret worship life; a voice, that He recognizes, that is only His and ours. Here, I think of King David; the failure.

Carnal and weak; but he never gave up on Mercy, and he knew it, because from a young boy, he loved worship of his God.

Resolve and Honesty with God........................

"Wherefore do I take my flesh in my teeth, and put my life in mine hand?

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him."........................

"Pour out your heart before Him." in a spirit of worship and praise; alone, in your daily life.

An odd thing I know about God; Without overcoming this cloud, I could never know Him; It is as necessary as the rain.

Odd thing about the chicken; awakening alone in complete darkness. It begins instinctively to peck away at something, until a sliver of light appears. It is a crack! It then becomes devoted to the peck, more and more until a hole is large enough, and the glorious light floods through, for the first time! I Live! she peeps; but whew! that was hard.

I have heard that if you remove this struggle from the chick, and do it yourself, and remove the egg shell from the babe, he will surely die. The struggle, and the resolve, form the muscles to walk, and function, and without them, you have retardation, a weakling, who cannot endure physically in the world.

This kind of reminds me of some Christians I have known, who refuse but to believe that the Christian Walk is all about being BLESSED! They receive all opposition in life, as an attack of Satan, not realizing that God has set you here, for your sake, and others, to implant in you HIMSELF, to set you on high.

JOSEPH: A boy, 17 or so, betrayed and abandoned, enslaved, and imprisoned...forever it seemed, and in it all he believed, and trusted. He may have read Job, the oldest book in the Bible, I do not know, but somewhere he knew that God was God, and it was OK!..and he rode it out without cursing God, as also Job.

"If we suffer with Christ, we shall reign with Him."

I think that without these fibers of endurance and faith, we may stand before Him and then realize that we really never knew Him, and hear the most terrible words ever spoken; "Depart from me. I never knew you!"

Jesus is in the fire with us, and knows our heart.


[SORRY ABOUT DOUBLE-POST]

L
learn Aug 11, 2012

BrotherTom,
How long did yours last-months/years/weeks???? Thks


-----
[from brothertom
This is a much understood , bewildering experience when it begins to happen; I cannot put a time line on it, but usually a few years after salvation; The Honeymoon Period with Jesus. I had one; I would wake up in the presence of the Lord, live in my Bible all day, and walk with him in odd ways, where it seemed I was guided around by Him all day long.

And then: the sound of the whirlwind....

It must be lonely, No one can walk with your feet, or believe in your heart for you.Let us consider Psalm 23:]

sermonindex Aug 11, 2012

BrotherTom,
"How long did yours last-months/years/weeks???? Thks"
...learn.

I probably have had four or five "dark nights"..usually measured in a few months, to a year or so, w/over 40 years of Spirit filled life, and there is another aspect though, that has been much longer; a lifestyle of sorrow and rejection, that could be construed as the same, though it is not exactly.

I am in no way comparing myself to these saints; BUT...to a degree, and much lessor.

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They..."Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.".............

Mocked, chained, imprisoned, whipped with the "cat of nine tails", stoned, slain with the blade, homeless and naked, afflicted and probably sick, and tormented by their persecutors....these were the Hunted church.

So, I would contend that everyone of them considered they were in the "Dark Night", wouldn't they? Hopelessness, sorrow and pain were their bedfellows, and don't forget that their were babies involved here, as their always is.

God uses the "Dark Night" to stretch us out and prove our love; and Persecution is simply the "BLOW TORCH" OF THAT FIREY TRIAL. It is a dark night, for sure....and I believe that everyone reading this, at least here in America, will wake up one day, and see Hebrews 11, rolling right down your street. [ I believe it to be Muslim/Socialist/Sharia but could be wrong..].

You see? It is the former that prepares us for the latter. If you cannot run with the footmen, where will you be when the horsemen come? Trampled; that's where. God sends the night, on an individual basis, so that we will learn to light our lamps, to see our way when the Winter Night comes, and it will and it is!

We learn to worship Him, and Trust in Him, as faithful Joseph, and Job did, no matter the circumstances; we endure, and trust.

TWO THINGS: NO COMPLAINING!

If we allow Complaining to pour out of our lips in the midst of our trial, our pain, we deeply offend God; it is a terrible sin against Him. I try to live this way; to be thankful for what I have, and never complain about what I do not have. This is an important Biblical Maxim, and by ignoring it, has cost the soul of many.

In my view, over the years, I have seen more people FALL AWAY than endure, and some because they just wanted more, and were tired of the dark-night, and fell over to the Love of the World, or money, or sex, or their pride in their own life.

"And when the people COMPLAINED, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the Lord burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp."

Complaining is saying to God; MORE! NOT ENOUGH! YOUR PROVISION STINKS! YOU ARE NOT ABLE! GIVE ME!...and if you keep it up, you will become bitter, and foul in His sight.

..."They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

Hating complaining is loving the truth, for God hates complaining, and endorses Thanks giving. The martyrs thanked God for Life, as they suffered and died!

NO BITTERNESS, AND A LIFE OF MERCY TOWARD BAD CIRCUMSTANCES, AND YOUR ENEMIES.

Most people who suffer loss, blame God, inwardly. Perhaps through the loss of a child, your finances, or a sickness or disease, that fell upon them or their loved ones. This can be very subtle, but soon apparent; you become bitter, and it lodges in your spirit, and becomes apparent. You then become a hateful, cursing, and complaining soul rather than a sweet one.

Remember Joseph, and his life. His brothers murdered him, by proxy, in the cruelest of ways, selling him to the demonic Sabean slave traders. He could have well ended uo in a salt mine somewhere, worked to death in a few short years.

Then the temptress, who lied about Joseph and accused him of attempted rape falsely? Was Joseph vengeful? No. and then jail, and then being passed over and betrayed....on and on. 23 years later, his brothers come around, in a Sovereign act of reunitement, and HOW does Joseph respond to his former attackers, who deprived him of EVERYTHING!...and wanted his life!

"I forgive you!...
"And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto GOOD, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them."

This must be our attitude in the dark night of trial; I forgive. Remember the very first Christian martyr.

....."And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep."

No Complaining or bitterness until we pass on; those are the rules. We become always thankful in our hearts, that we are saved, and alive, no matter the circumstances, no matter the cost. This is impossible for humans to accomplish, but as Paul heard;

"MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT!"

sermonindex Aug 11, 2012

exactly what I'm struggling with BrotherTom. Having some slow progress however.

When I complain He gets angry but still teaches me that those who take up the cross are "sweet" like you say.

His will vs my will. pride vs humility. forgiveness vs bitterness. judgmental vs loving thoughts. "no peace for the wicked" vs "righteousness peace and joy"

BrotherTom: "No Complaining or bitterness until we pass on; those are the rules."

Exactly. Thanks bro

Noah


edit:
thank you 100fold for posting. great to hear from you guys about the deeper walk.

"The rich, loving relationship with the Lord far outweighs our “light and momentary afflictions.” And who can even imagine the thrill of hearing Jesus say, “Well done, good and faithful servant?”"

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