What is the point of prophecy?

The Nature of Bible Prophecy I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. (Joh 13:18-20 KJV)Here’s a question which constantly comes to my mind when I see people posting on Second Coming. People of very different persuasions speak with equal certainty of future events. I have an observation and a question.The observation: Before the coming of the Lord the interpreters of the Old Testament prophecies were, it appears, universally mistaken in their interpretation. They were so certain of their predictions that when the ‘stone’ came and would not fit into their prefabricated building they rejected it.The question: Is the purpose of prophecy to provide predictions and consequently future schedules of events? The Lord’s words above seem to suggest a totally different purpose to prophecy, namely that ‘when it happens people will recognise it’ rather than deciding what is going to happen and then awaiting it.It is because of this that I have refused to systemise or synchronise the events of the Second Coming. I used to be a very informed pre-trib, pre-mill advocate but have long since abandoned the attempt to make a seemless schedule for the last times.What do you think? What is the purpose of prophecy and is it always inevitable?

The Lord’s words above seem to suggest a totally different purpose to prophecy, namely that ‘when it happens people will recognise it’ rather than deciding what is going to happen and then awaiting it.That is what I believe. I am a post tribber (previous pretribber) who is confused millenially :-P ..amill or premill???? That is the question........Preterism, well, I can't wrap my mind around that at this point in time.In any case, the "specifics" of the days preceeding His return in my opinion can only be speculated on. None of us knows how events will play out exactly. When we seem to have all down I believe there is greater reason to believe deception can occur---if not deception, then great, great discouragement. I think the thing we need to do is be informed WHAT the Word says and let the Holy Spirit reveal truth as events come to pass. Many a Christian has looked foolish to the world as well as to other Christians when they have jumped on a bandwagon and been proven wrong........."I THINK", "IT COULD BE"......etc.....are all good ways to presently evaluate prophecies which have yet to come to pass. Just my opinion. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

"...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

What do you think? What is the purpose of prophecy and is it always inevitable?Hi Bro Ron,I believe that few things truly weigh a person like prophecy. What I mean is, the reading of the prophesies will bring to the surface tendencies and motives that tell much about us. Your point about how many of the Jews stumble over that stumbling stone is case in point. They knew basically the 'when' of the Lord's first coming, but not the 'what' (what is the purpose of His coming in other words?). Their sinful and hardenedhearts caused them to bend in the direction of their preconceived and selfish notions. Some repented of this and followed Christ- others carried through and determined Him to be a false Messiah. Where are we in these things? We know the 'what' but not the 'when.' It is the exact opposite as the scenerio of the Jews, but just as much a stone of stumbling. And so too, men's selfish motives come into play and pretty soon no Christian (at least in the west) is going to suffer because we will all be 'raptured' out of here. You are also right in the first assertion. I would only add that I believe there are certain warnings in Revelation that we need to greatly take heed to. Especially the one about receiving a mark in the right hand or forehead. I personally believe the Lord's return is immanent. That does not believe we will not suffer greatly before it's all said and done. I was raised 'pre-trib' and have lived those fears since a child. I have a view now that is quite simple- "Be ye ready..." Ready for what? What ever happens, just be ready. For in such a time as we think not our Lord doth come. Ready to live and ready to die for Him. Ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within us. Ready to follow Him outside the camp bearing His reproach- for here we have no continuing city, but we seek one to come. What ever happens, just be ready. God Bless,-Robert

Before the coming of the Lord the interpreters of the Old Testament prophecies were, it appears, universally mistaken in their interpretation. They were so certain of their predictions that when the ‘stone’ came and would not fit into their prefabricated building they rejected it.Thank you Ron.Have had exactly the same musings for awhile and that keeps me outside or in the 'pan'-camp. Haven't been convinced one way or the other nor have I been able to follow along with those who seem to think they have this all figured out. There is too much being left out or overlooked to tie a nice bow around it all.In fact it seems that certain sides contradict themselves often without even realizing it, a lot of proof texting to buttress positions.With Robert here on all this, " Watch and pray...lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping." To the question and; ‘when it happens people will recognize it’ Would agree and yet can't help but wonder how much of a repeat the last time will be to the first, going back to that original observation.

If one is walking in the Lord, when these things happen there will be no doubt about it. There are some things which are plain and simple to understand, eg the great earthquake that will shake the world, the locsuts with the stings of scorpion etc and there is a definate order in the way these things will happen. The point is we must keep our focus on God because it is Him who directs these things and focus on Him is the key. The minute we try to interpret these spirirtual things and the bible in any other light, be it on an intellectual level or otherwise, we have LOST it all. In short the point of prophecy is to compell us to focus on God and seek Him in spirit and in truth.

Hi IRONMAN,Certainly, but was alluding to the same thing Ron first mentioned:Before the coming of the Lord the interpreters of the Old Testament prophecies were, it appears, universally mistaken in their interpretation. They were so certain of their predictions that when the ‘stone’ came and would not fit into their prefabricated building they rejected it.Similiarly, for the more adamant camp defenders or building tennants we might say, this still seems a distinct possibility. Would also agree with you on where are focus ought to be, not to dismiss this out of hand but think the biggest part of this whole question is to the 'point', which may prove to be telling and may be broader as this develops. Seems to be a hint of that right out of the verse Ron originally quoted: but that the scripture may be fulfilled

Indeed bro, I forgot to mention that prophecy also allows us a to see a different part of the character of God or to see Him in a different light. That really was the main thing behind my post, it would have helped if I had mentioned it. :-?

Personally speaking I have always liked what the late Keith Green said: "I hope that I'm raptured out before the tribulation but I'm going to prepare myself to go through the tribulation". I don't believe we are any wiser or more prepared for Jesus now than the Jews in the first century. Jesus said when he returns will he find faith on earth?And he gave pictures of the 10 virgins with only half being ready , but all were sleeping.And many more things did Jesus say that lets me know that the people of God won't be ready or at least half when he comes to take his purchased to heaven for the marriage feast. I normally just sit back and stay out of end time -time table type teachings , I think they tickle iching ears. Bro. Daryl

What do you think? What is the purpose of prophecy and is it always inevitable? The purpose of prophesy is for edification and confirmation , however in the case of Agabus who foretold of the famine to come in Judea it would appear he spoke inorder that provision might be made for the believers in Judea.Is it always inevitable? I believe there are some things God has set in place by His sovereign will that cannot be altered but there are somethings He has decreed that we can alter through our influence in prayer and obedience to God, as in the case of Jonah.And even in that I see God as unwilling to destroy that wicked nation, by forcing Jonah to go.Maybe he was a bad example!lol! But you get my main idea. What do you think? Bro. Daryl

To get the winning lottery numbers?Perhaps not? The real reason I asked this question was to challenge the current position among the majority of evangelicals that we have a sort of coded timetable for the future. If this is the purpose of the New Testament's prophetic stream it is quite different to that in the Old Testament.The purpose of OT prophecy does seem to fit with the general statement of the Lord"From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am He. (Joh 13:19 NASB)In this sense of the prophetic would not be to provide a timetable for the future but so that when the future 'happened' His people would know that it was all in hand. The sense in this verse is not so that you will be warned before hand, but 'in order that' when it happens you will know that I knew. In other words it will confirm who I am, not give you a timetable for the future.If this is the main purpose of prophecy then Jake is partially right in the amount of wasted energies that have gone into the interpretation of the book of Revelation as a coded timetable.It would require a complete paradigm shift for the evangelical world and confine all those pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, partial rapture, pre-millenniel, post-milleniel, a-millenial books to the church archive. :-?

Brother Ron,This is my short list as to what i think the point of prophecy is ...#1 - Divine Exhortation: God's instruction towards what needs to be built up ...#2 - Divine Condemnation: God's instruction towards what needs to be torn down ...#3 - Divine Warning: REPENT or else God will reveal His displeasure ... #4 - Divine Foresight: Signs for the faithful to look for in order to escape the consequences of ignoring the prior three ...i can kinda see how most of Israel missed Christ in His first coming, they were primarily looking for a conquering King that would slam dunk the Romans, but i think God has been much clearer to we believer's about His secong coming ... And the thing about the Revelation that gets me is that argurably the most graphic book regarding end time prophecy is the only book that comes with it's own special blessing for those that read (familiarize) themselves with it ... i've often wondered why that was, and have wondered if maybe the reason is that God, thru the Revelation, wanted to keep all subsequent believer's ever vigilant, on our toes, with hand cupped to our spiritual ears, listening, looking for the signs of His second coming ... True such intensity may have driven some to distraction but just because man might get prophecy twisted and miss it, or misconstrue it, doesn't (to me) diminish the importance of said prophecy ... What that says to me is that man has his priorities twisted in that the redemption (reward) of Biblical prophecy is not in figuring out when or how it will happen, but in living every day as if Biblical prophecy will come to pass in the very next second ... i think losing this type urgency is what allows complacency then apostacy to set into the preacher and believer alike ... A little leaven (laxity), and the next thing you got is Laodicea ... i know in my own life, and Christian walk, what has seperated me, and is seperating me even moreso to date from the great majority of my Christian peers is that i see fulfilment of Bible prophecy everyday, every where i look, and every where i turn ... Therefore a lotta saved folk think i'm certfiable, and i'm an over zealous religious nut to most heathen ... They're all intitled to their opinion, but i know that God the Father and Son don't see me that way, and Holy Spirit definitely doesn't because He knows (finally, thank You Jesus!) that He's got my undivided attention, and so loves to commune with me, and i Him, and really that's all i need ... So even if Christ doesn't return in my lifetime, i know that my living my life in this sense of urgency is in the long run beneficial to myself (keeps me clear with God), those about me (i'm concerened that they hear the Gospel before it's to late), but most importantly to Him (because He finds me a willing open vessel to His use now) ... To me that's become a win - win situation!Bottom line is we may argue over pre, mid and post trib, but one thing we all should agree on, and that is that one day we'll hear trumpets, Jesus will crack the sky, and in an instant we'll become the greater fulfilment of what we so sillily (if that's a word) argue about and question today ... Bible prophecy ...

I would only add that I believe there are certain warnings in Revelation that we need to greatly take heed to. Especially the one about receiving a mark in the right hand or forehead.I intended to ask this ages ago but forgot. The book of Revelation (btw folks it is Revelation not Revelations) is full of symbols beasts with multiple heads, lambs on throne, dragons pulling a third of the stars down, the numbers 144000, 7, 1000 all seem to be symbolic to me. Here's my question... are you expecting a visible mark on the forehead or hand? Isn't it more likely that this is a link with And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. (Deu 6:6-8 KJV) The Jews interpreted this literally and wore their phylacteries, but surely the sense was that their lives, in thought and deed, were to be subject to the will of God? In like manner is it not likely that the 'mark' of the beast is similarly describing those whose whole lives, in thought and deed, are subject to his will?If this is so, the 'mark of the beast' is not something which is coming but something which has been here from the beginning?

i've often wondered why that was, and have wondered if maybe the reason is that God, thru the Revelation, wanted to keep all subsequent believer's ever vigilant, on our toes, with hand cupped to our spiritual ears, listening, looking for the signs of His second coming ...I was with you until the 'looking for the signs' bit. This is really the purpose of my question. When I say 'prophecy' in this provocative title I had in mind predictive prophecy of the Daniel, Zechariah, Revelation kind which is usually called apocalyptic. I know that there are many forms of prophecy and the predictive is only a proportion.My main anxiety about the way most evangelicals use the Revelation is just this 'looking for the signs'. The experts in this were the Plymouth Brethren and particularly people like C I Scofield. Spurgeon, who was a contemporary of these men once said "Ye men of Plymouth, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."Spurgeon had a very keen sense of humour!

I agree with you about the way we all seemingly look for a sign. I believe the signs will be there but the events of the day will be so fast paced with so much happening all at once , the signs will be missed. The term used for the disciples "gazing" , I believe was theatre, so it was a long drawn out gaze or observation.It would seem to me that in our humanity we are fascinated with even the thought of signs in the heavens and so are the unbelieving.If one wants to get a good following all he has to do is specilize in this area.And so I still say much of te signs preaching is out of balance and scratches itching ears.You're initial observation about a proof of Jesus being who he said he was is , I believe sound doctrine,or healthy doctrine.

Bro Ron you wrote;"I was with you until the 'looking for the signs' bit". HALLELEUJAH! ... 1'm praising God for the remainder that your were with me on! ... '0)You further wrote;"My main anxiety about the way most evangelicals use the Revelation is just this 'looking for the signs". That i'd say is probably just human nature, even child like wonderment, as with Jesus disciples in ...Matt.24[1] And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.[2] And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.[3] And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?i have to confess that i'd be one of those who caused you "anxiety" in this regard because even tho i see/get more from the Revelation than just signs, if id'a been counted amongst Christ disciples in the afore line of questioning, Jesus would have had to personally sit me down ...And then there's this scripture that (i think) tells me that if He took the time to write the signs down, i should at least take the time to be on the look out for them ...Matt.16[1] The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.[2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.[3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?But as i stated previously ... My main job as a Christian is to live my life like He's coming in the next second ... signs or not ...PS - i've listened to a few of your lectures and noticed in one of them that you used the same term in one of them that you used here "most evangelicals" ... This is not a loades question, i'm just curious, do you concider yourself an "evangelical", and if not then what?

And then there's this scripture that (i think) tells me that if He took the time to write the signs down, i should at least take the time to be on the look out for them ..But that is my point. Signs are not always pointers to the future.PS - i've listened to a few of your lectures and noticed in one of them that you used the same term in one of them that you used here "most evangelicals" ... This is not a loades question, i'm just curious, do you concider yourself an "evangelical", and if not then what?Yes, I regard myself as an evangelical. I just find difficulty in regarding some evangelicals as evangelicals! :-o Perhaps I should begin to use the phrase 'most contemporary evangelicals'. In much of my thinking I would be much more closely aligned to the 'classical evangelicals' of earlier years. 'Evangelical' used to mean 'bible-based', now it is a sub-culture with a whole language and practice that is mostly tradition and much less 'bible-based'. This is why I called my own site 'the bible base'.