Turning around:A mom and her Lesbian daughter

I caught part of this story on the radio and relistened to it when I got home. The story of a mom who believes homosexuality is sin and a daughter who comes out to her mom that she is a lesbian. The mom goes through all of the struggles of what to do including many of the things we deal with when saying why homosexuality is a sin vs. a lifestyle, choice or they way they are 'naturally'.

I post this simply because many of us have gone or are going through what this mom is dealing with. I have a uncle who is gay but I don't think he practices it, only my opinion. It isn't brought up in the family though and he attends a rainbow church.

Anyway, this is about 30 minutes, listen to it and see what you think.....
Emotions do play a role in this but then I am left saying, at point do you use the law to make your point, at what point does grace play a role in this and/ or is there something else we need to deal with?

http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_71812_full_show.mp3/view

Has this rebellion not touched about everyone of us? How many members of our family, friends, or workmates are there that have chosen this path? It is a path. It is called by many names to make it palatable and to remove the stigma but it is always a path. One may call their choice a journey, and in that regard that is true, because every journey has a destination and every destination is reached by the path one travels.

I see more and more individuals coping with the sin of homosexuality by recatagorizing it. Just as murder is condoned and made acceptable by categorizing it as family planning. This path is broad and on it walks a dictionary of terms that will also be redefined.

Blessed are the peace makers, but what good is the peace produced by a conflict free environment in this vapor like existence if it comes at the cost of eternal torment and separation from Christ? To love God is to love His ways but we cannot say we love Him if we hate His ways. Christ's second command is to love thy neighbor. It too needs to be redefined if we continue upon the path of deconstruction. Christ's parable that speaks to and defines neighborly love can no longer be found sufficient. What right has the Samaritan to interfere with any part of the Jews travel to Jericho? Should he not let the man be? Why disturb this man's peaceful rest as he catches the rays on the side of the road a'natural? This is not to love but rather to loathe. We will all struggle with the ways we are to love those who shake a fist at God but acceptance is not an option.

NPR can only produce a story like this if it contains a Christianity that is acceptable to the masses. As always it will be a Christianity void of salt, which is no Christianity at all.

I recognize that NPR programs, when they do stories on religion, seem to focus on those who have had a change of heart changed their thinking to one of progressiveness, tolerance, acceptance and so forth.

The one item that puzzles me, though, is the nature of homosexuality. How many times we seen someone who you can tell is homosexual by their mannerism and/or body structure. Almost as if it is in the genetics somehow or there is some kind of hormonal imbalance because it comes across as so natural to the persons being. It is this arena in which homosexuals are fighting to be accepted yet it puzzles me and I don't know what the answer to the issue is.

Hi! 'DEADn'

I'm not chasing yer Threads, honestly. I jus' bump into them and they get me thinking an' I feel it needful to reply.

Ummm, yuh know what?
I was thinking only yesterday about the verse saying, "You have not because you ask not", (James 4;2).
I stammered fer a minute and said to myself, "Well, what happens if we don't exactly know the question we should be asking in the first place?".

Anyways, I've been noticing that about a lot about my own Bible studies and with many different Threads in here; they seem to ask a question that somehow avoided the REAL question that should have been asked in the first instance.

So, the gospel of Blayne says: "You have not because you asked the wrong question ... you're two questions ahead of what should have been asked sortta' thing", (verse 2012). :)

This predicament is especially obvious with your questions about homosexuality; at least, in my opinion it is.

Ask a 1000 Christians what homosexuality is and 99.9% of them will automatically state that it's a sin.
A good tidy answer.
But when yuh throw into the mix that there seems to be physiological and genetic evidence emerging that homosexuality might be something near a birth defect and possibly hereditary, these 99% begin giving you a look of bewilderment.

So? What am I trying to say?
Well, it's impossible for a Christian to comprehend the increasing phenomena of homosexuality without first having a clear and unambiguous understanding about what sin is. They can't understand about homosexuality because the question about sin was never properly asked nor answered in the first place.

We have been amply warned that the end times will see an increase of wickedness and iniquity on the earth. This is a developmental process; a maturing process.

The powers of sin and death can be compared to the destructive influences of a fatal disease. Just like a cancer doesn't suddenly appear in a single day and strike someone down, neither do the powers of sin and death.
The powers of Sin develop as a lawless growth, a tumor. Finally, it matures to the degree that it suffocates the vital organs of life.
They are set against and oppose the natural creation laws of God. One could say that the powers of sin and death pollute the good and orderly functioning of creation in the same way that a spill of nuclear material might produce deviant creatures with multiple eyes and malformed bodies.

We tend to perceive sin from the vantage point of it having been already committed; when the inspiration behind the power becomes visible in the world through the activities of someone. In this way, we remain blinded to the origin of sin; ignorant of the powers of sin.
We should try and focus on the origin of sin; not merely it's manifestation on the earth.

So, the question about sin needs to have been asked correctly in the first place before any particular symptom or expression of it's injury can properly be discerned.

I hear you Blayne and I agree with you. It also causes me to realize just how ignorant we are all of what sin is in the first place. Initially it is falling short of the mark or standard and in this case it means falling short of God and his perfectness. Then that has to translate downward into the subtle things and not so subtle things that fall short of who God is. Could this be the fault of the lack of teaching in the church? The denominations? Even understanding it wrong in personal bible study? It might be all of the above.

I noticed that what is happening these days in the world is there is a gradual in your face promotion to dictate to us that those things we believe to be sin are normal because it seems to be ingrained in our being so it is natural and it is hateful to say such things are wrong. Homosexuality is an example and now off to transgender and so on. I wonder when child molester will enter into that arena.

But then when it comes to homosexuality and the physical aspect of it, how do we deal with it? In a sense it is like saying what we are calling sin is a normal trait within a person. How does that trait come out of that person? Sin is forgiven by God but that doesn't mean it just goes away. There is bondage there but this bondage seems to be a part of the physical make up as well. How is that taken away? Is it a Damascus road experience?

I am careful not to be swayed by the emotions of those led by sin yet I am trying to cut through it all and understand how it should probably be dealt with without damaging the soul of that individual. It is like a surgeon doing in to pull something out all the while passing by organs which are very delicate and one false move and damage will occur and last a lifetime.

Dean said:
"I wonder when child molester will enter into that arena."

It grieves me a lot, but there are at least a few organizations of child molesters seeking "their rights" to enter into physical relationships with children without being condemned by law as criminals. I found out about them in a documentary about the sexual revolution that a Sermon Index user linked to in a recent post. I was grieved!

Hi! 'DEADn'

If you knew me well, you would also know me as a very analytic thinker. As a matter of fact, I laughed aloud just minutes ago because someone E-Mailed me saying: "Yes, that is typically YOU! Give Blayne something to look for and he hounds at it like a sporting dog and he will not rest before he has found it! Great!!" (I had drafted a study for him regarding Paul's 'Thorn In The Flesh').
Sometimes, I can bore people to death with my analytics. :)
Hopefully, I can avoid doing that with this Thread.

You offered many causes of our ignorance concerning the powers of sin and ended with a summary, "It might be all of the above". I'm much in agreement with that expressed sentiment. It's a multi-faceted and multi-dimensional lacking in the Christian experience.

OK, I have to admit that I'm again laughing aloud to myself. Why? Well, I read something you wrote and I thought to myself, "I should tell him about that time when I was ...", and I decided that that road was too long a one to be traveled in this Thread.
In particular, you wrote: "in the world is there is a gradual in your face promotion to dictate to us".
I found myself asking, "What did you expect, dude?"
Is this OUR world or theirs?
It's THEIRS!
We should not expect that the world is suddenly going to become amicable to our needs or moral persuasions. On the contrary! At every turn the world is bent on eradicating our standards and diluting the salt of the earth.
That's why I'm always astonished about the moanin' an' groanin' that can sometimes happen in here. It's almost laughable (if it were not so tragic) to hear Christians crying out against the world for stealing their rightful place in it or for conducting themselves in some egregious manner. What on earth do we expect unregenerate sinners to be doing other than what we now see?

I can only suspect that the verses, "be not conformed to this world" and "because ye are not of the world, ... therefore the world hateth you" are not to be found in their Bibles. We are indeed a unique people in this world but not of it. We should always try and remember that.

But you see, 'DEADn', jus' like a lot of Christians don't fully comprehend the powers of darkness because they have not trained themselves to ask the proper questions, a lot too don't fully understand what a 'new creature' really means either. So, power of sin is reduced to something akin to "missing the mark" and their new life becomes reduced to some ideology or moral formula which makes them eligible for a happy eternity.

You can always tell how much value (or lack of value) people place on Calvary by listening to their explanations concerning the the gospel and their place in it. There are some people whom I've met that had such shallow expectations concerning their regenerated lives that I began to wonder if they thought that Jesus only suffered through a water-boarding for them ... instead of the gruesome narrative of Calvary. It seemed to me that this was 'bout all they needed to fulfill their shallow expectations for their Christian lives.

Anyways, I keep repeating the phrase that we must "put our minds on things above" because this is where our every reality originates. This is the focus from which all our questions are to be answered.

I posted this verse in another thread but it has a lot to do with manifestation of of the inward sin.

Romans 1:18-32 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Sorry, I know its a lot to read but I think it displays a very important truth. Homosexuality is the result of a much much deeper and serious sin. The manifestation of homosexuality is a result of us abandoning our worship of God, in favor of the creature that He Himself created. In our case, we worship man. Something to think about maybe.

I do not mean to be crude when I say this but if men and women will pass laws protecting theIr right to dishonor their bodies with the vile affections they hold for each other, children and animals stand no chance.

Hi! 'NMatheson'

Yeah, I've returned for a few more days an' I've been Postin' like crazy too. :)

Yer absolutely right about saying, "... It has a lot to do with manifestation of of the inward sin".
An' I also am in agreement with your further comment saying, "Homosexuality is the result of a much much deeper and serious sin. The manifestation of homosexuality is a result of us abandoning our worship of God, in favor of the creature that He Himself created".

Ummm, I might add:
God wants the human spirit to have fellowship with Himself only; "He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us", (James 4:5). This is the only way for the creature to glorify his Maker.

When engaging in idolatry and occultism, the human spirit has 'fellowship' (communion) with evil spirits and this is spiritual adultery.

When this sort of activity is conducted in the invisible world, the visible world will show the deviant distortion in natural creation; eg: interfere with the communion between one man and one woman. This is why polygamy and fornication are quite common among those who serve the idols.

[by Blayne on 2012/7/20 10:09:35
When engaging in idolatry and occultism, the human spirit has 'fellowship' (communion) with evil spirits and this is spiritual adultery

When this sort of activity is conducted in the invisible world, the visible world will show the deviant distortion in natural creation; eg: interfere with the communion between one man and one woman. This is why polygamy and fornication are quite common among those who serve the idols.]

---
I just have to reply to this. I think King Solomon takes the cake when it comes to polygamy. He had 700 wives of royal birth and 300 concubines while God was still with him. And his wives led him astray. So the thing is it can go either way.

Anyway, below is a video on a person released from homosexuality. I did not see it but maybe some of you will be interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdQ6_MAH2A

God specifically told him not to marry those foreign women though. He basically told God that his desires outweighed the desire of God. Look what happened.

Edit* - I didnt have time to watch that whole video but I saw about half of it. Its a very powerful testimony from what I saw.

1 Kings 11:4-8

As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

http://youtu.be/ezQjNJUSraY

I came across this sermon from another forum. I made it halfway through before my adobe crashed. I thought it was important enough to share with the forum. It is an hour but this guy goes a bit deep in his sermonette. He actually makes for an interesting bible study if you stay with him. It is the gay debate. I am interested to see how the end of this comes.

John

[by NMatheson on 2012/7/20 11:31:37
God specifically told him not to marry those foreign women though. He basically told God that his desires outweighed the desire of God. Look what happened.]

Yup. The wisest man and richest man strayed. Its better to have nothing and cling onto Jesus.

edit: shorten sentence

Wow... this thread sent me on an incredible journey through the internet. I had no idea so many people support homosexuality.

Even worse, homosexuality isn't even the debate anymore. Now it has turned into a can you be christian and gay at the same time. Through "science", it is already supposedly concluded that people are just born that way. So now that that issue is closed to these people, it's only obvious to them that it is okay.

It saddens me greatly to see such abuse of scripture. I pray that the nation I live in will come out of delusion. I struggle to think that they will though. I can only pray.