some people are so closed minded!!

Couldn't sleep, yet.

Brother, the problem, as what I've seen, is something that I pray that no one takes wrong... but I feel with all of my heart, that there are very few "Biblicists" left. There's just people quoting people.

In these days with computers and the availability of Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries and Grammar helps - there's just no excuse to not study His Word for oneself with the help of His Spirit and 'try' the things that we hear. In other words "test" all things by His Word and Spirit.

The Spirit of John 16:13 has been left out of our Bible reading and studying.
The fact that we have the original languages to go to with the grammar has not been explored or few have encouraged others to study these languages.

At one time, one would have to go to college to learn how to find the grammar of a Hebrew or Greek word, but now it's all done for us, through books or an internet site or Bible program. But people would rather be spoon fed by someone else when The Word is right there in front of them.

The Church has become lazy. They'd rather just parrot off everything from other sources that they've read.

When we stand before Him - He'll ask us "What did you do with The Word that I left for you and My Spirit of Truth?"

That's a very serious question that I know He'll ask us.

Granted, those in other countries, don't have the resources that we have - so to whom much is given - much is required.

Every single debate can be ended with His Word alone - but I've yet to see a debate in 9 yrs on the internet that's been carried out with His Word and the original languages alone.
Always quotes from so-and-so.

The day that anybody wants to calmly debate a topic with Scripture only, I'm going to celebrate exceedingly first and then we'll have a wonderful time together.

The Beauty of His Word is, that it NEVER contradicts itself.

So, what I'm saying in return to your 'staying open' post is ... once you've exhausted every resource available that's mentioned above and only use "books or help" with the definitions - grammar and cross-referencing - and feel confident The Holy Spirit has led you into a truth - stay with it and be ready to defend the Truth -- as we're responsible for.

GOD Bless you.

JIG writes..........

"Brother, the problem, as what I've seen, is something that I pray that no one takes wrong... but I feel with all of my heart, that there are very few "Biblicists" left. There's just people quoting people.

In these days with computers and the availability of Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries and Grammar helps - there's just no excuse to not study His Word for oneself with the help of His Spirit and 'try' the things that we hear. In other words "test" all things by His Word and Spirit."

I could not agree more sister. In a recent " debate," here on SI, the person doing the " critique," had by his own admission, never even read the full book of the person he was critisizing. I just happened to have read that particular book five times and every other book that author had written. I did not agree with everything the author had ever written ( I have yet to read any author that I totaly agree with apart from the Holy Spirit) and this person was tearing this man down without even a single quote from the author to back up what he was saying. When I checked out his " sources," it happened to be a website that had a beef with this particular author.

Yes, indeed, we live in lazy days where people have access to a " little information." We live in the days of soundbites. If you are a politician and do not say your sentences perfectly, there will be an ad the following day completly distorting and taking what you said out of context because of a pre-existing agenda. Its bad enough when it happens in the world, it is particulalry sad when you see it in Christendom............bro Frank

On another thread last night, it was mentioned that there's a Greek word for "people believe what they want to believe" and that is true. But in the majority of cases - people do not want to study His Word and would rather just find an author with the same beliefs they've somehow 'decided on' and just quote those.

Folks that mock the word "sound doctrine"/or sound teaching are the reason there are so many splits in the Church. And why we are guilty before GOD for being a Country that Exports the Majority of error, world-wide ... Because we Just Don't Care for Jesus' Words about studying and holding to and teaching sound doctrine and don't care that GOD put sound doctrine as 'Equal to' proper living / living a Godly life.

Lazy! Yes. If we Love "Jesus" Who is The Word of GOD than we will Love The Word of GOD and desire after what "truth" is because HE said before Pilate - the reason He was born - the reason He came - was to bear witness to the Truth... but we don't want to be bothered to search out the Truth and mock others that do want to know the Truth From The Word of GOD alone!

I'm wearied by those that mock those that search the Scritpures - as we're commanded to - to know The Jesus of The Bible and The Jesus 'of The Bible' is Who He is and not one made up of our own liking. We know Him by His Word and we WANT TO Know His Mind on Every topic/subject ... so what is there to mock?

If a person "loves Jesus" - they'll love, hunger for and search out His Words that He's left us and with many tools in these days that will lead us to Truth - the truth that we can thereby help others by.

When will we get tired of others being led astray, world-wide, by lazy Americans?

Below - just 12 incidents out of the 44 of 'His' use of the Word "teaching/doctrine" ... but rather than STUDY - some would rather mock and complain about the use of the word for "Jesus' Teaching" being also called "doctrine" in some versions .....

2Ti 2:14-18 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit,
**but to the subverting of the hearers.**

**Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. **

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine [teaching]; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1Ti 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience...

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears

Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Tit 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Tit 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity

Tit 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

The only way to build His Fort, The Church is with His Truth.

Every Epistle is by an Apostle that had to fight to get 'the truth' back so that the Church would be strong.

Error weakens the Church.

Yes, instead of "fighting" - people should be going to The Word Alone to learn Truth and then they have the Truth Who is Christ Jesus behind them in their battle to save souls.

The battle is 'for' souls and that can be proven Scripturally - that it 'is' all about "doctrine".

But they "shut up their ears" to that Biblical truth.

The Spirit of Truth was given to lead through His Word.

The Purpose of His Spirit:

Joh 16:13,14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify Me [Who 'is' The Word of GOD]: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Hi Bill.

"The Door" is Christ and His Truth is "the Walls" and His Church is The Fort that propagates Truth.

If you read the Epistles - the Apostles were constantly having to fight error that was making it's way into The Church.

We Need to get back to the Apostolic Church ... the Church that was built upon The Word of GOD via The Spirit of Truth that leads us into all truth By His Word.

The "enemy" is the father of lies.

"No lie is of the truth"

The "purpose" of The Church is the same purpose as was Jesus' "purpose"....

Joh 18:37 "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king.
*To this end was I born,
and for this cause came I into the world,
that I should bear witness unto the truth.
Every one that is of the truth heareth My Voice.*

In John 10 - Jesus had said that, His Sheep Know His Voice and will not follow another.

The main focus of the letters of the Apostles were to counter heresy. And "heresy" is defined in the Greek as "the opinion chosen".

We lose people because we don't study to Know His Truth and that's how we lose people from the Church - through heresies.

1Jn 2:18-21 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth."

In the verses posted out of 1John 2 in the last post, it speaks about there being an antiChrist to come, but "many" antiChrists in the world and we can take that as "from before the creation of man."

"Anti" means "in place of" and not just "against".

John 1:1 states - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

also - Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called "The Word of God."

By The Word of GOD was all things Created.

This is "Jesus". He said that He 'is' The Truth.

So, if we ignore The Word of GOD - we're ignoring Jesus.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with denominationism.

It has nothing to do with "religious people" - but has everything to do with those that love "The Word of GOD".

HE is called "The Word of Life" and His Word is called "The Word of Life."

The Bread from Heaven.

If a person finds anything that contradicts The Word of GOD that is also Jesus' Name - they are "antiChrist" or "walking in the spirit of antiChrist" because they are putting either their own words or the words of men "in place of and against" Christ Jesus - The Word of GOD made flesh and written.

It's all about "relationship" with Jesus/The Word of GOD, from eternity past, until eternity future - The Word of GOD is forever established in Heaven and will not go out void and if The Word of GOD be lifted up - He will draw all men unto Himself.

After Peter was baptized at Pentecost, he preached The Word of GOD and 3000 were saved. That was the first 'act' of The Holy Spirit upon the crowds that built the Church.

Those that infiltrated The Church after Pentecost - were hirelings, false teachers and why the Epistles were needed to be written --- to become what we now also can depend on - The Word of GOD - not religion.

Anything less is antiChrist.

TMK wrote :

"both sides can very admirably support their views comparing scripture with scripture to the point where neither side can be said to "win" the debate"

Indeed, and I call those who argue from the point that there is only one way to interpret various verses and doctrines, closed minded, rather. Sometimes those who make their point in other ways than using scripture are doing so for this very reason.

Would like to go back to that word "anti" - defined ...

G473 αντί - anti =
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of

As the prefix of antiChrist.

Jesus said, "I Am The Truth".

How many "truths" does Jesus have concerning His specific Teachings?
Didn't He say - let our answers be either Yea or Nay?

Has He more than one truth regarding GOD's Nature? Does He permit man to make up their own stories about Who He is? The very thing that got us started onto this topic last night.

A poster had put that GOD 'decreed' or 'authored' Adam's sin and yet punished him for it.

That would carry over to all of our sins, would it not?

How many truths do you believe that we should have regarding GOD's nature and the teaching on the cause of the original sin of Adam, that affects us all?

I've stressed "study" and with The Spirit of Truth.
Word studies - how and where else that one word is used - it's definition and the grammar in the sentences that it's used in and then with cross-referencing that verse to those through-out the rest of GOD's Word.

The confidence is never in our flesh - but the full confidence is in that GOD left us His Truth in His Word and used a language so exact that we can say that there are 24 "the"s. That's how exact the Greek is. That's the language GOD chose to write His New Testament in, for that very reason.

But all of this takes intensive study and prayer that His Spirit of Truth would guide us into all truth - As He had promised. But study is labor. He never said that it wouldn't be. It's a "seeking GOD" through the words that He's left for us. Other than the labor of study - none can take credit. Only The Perfect Author of that Book can take all credit for leaving us a Book that never contradicts itself. That it is One Book and not two.

If the Omniscient GOD can leave us a Book of Truth - who are we to say that it doesn't contain His Perfect Truth?
Again, does He have multiple truths?

All beliefs fall back on His Character. A false belief - falsely reflects upon His very Nature. That is why the searching out His Word in earnest is so very important - because if we stray too far from the Truth that He 'is' - we've strayed from Who He is and risk falling under another Jesus, other than the One and Only GOD, that He is, from eternity past.

If we say that we can't come into His Truth - we make Him a liar. We make Paul and John liars. We make the whole of the Book a lie and can no longer quote Jesus when He said - I AM THE TRUTH, follow Me.

If His Name is The Word of GOD and we claim to have The Word of GOD in our hands to study - why would we have the idea that there are multiple truths?

All truth reflects back on Who He 'is' - and if we stray from truth - we are coming under the defintion given for "anti".

PaPa - Paul, John, Jude, and the other authors of what we call our Bible were indeed very closed minded.

It's only when people get their beliefs from men that they stumble and are tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.

The last days will be most notable for doctrines of devils - false prophets and false teachers - heresies.

If we don't get The Truth from Him alone - when everything that we believe is "shaken" - which it will be - we ourselves will be shaken.

I've seen people get shaken very easily in what they believe because they got what they believe from a human.

Where do we draw the line with multiple interpretations of what HE has said?

In His Love.

Hi Sister KP. Thank you for taking the time to post. I came home earlier today really tired and didn't want to give you a quick reply - so I'll do my best to not do so - but wish I didn't feel so exhausted. I know we'll have other threads and other days to continue our quite enjoyable talks. It's been mutual, Sister.

Since my last post here, I've been grieving in spirit, I suppose you'd say. I fear that some may not realize that His Word is ALIVE. It's not just a book of words like any other book. It goes into our spirits - like money in the bank, and when needed - even if the brain isn't working - Scripture will come up from the spirit to either confirm or correct anything that we're exposed to.
While reading or hearing a sermon - or something that somebody says... the Scripture that we've deposited into the spirit [where it's discerned] - will come up to protect us.
I worked with Christians with Alzheimer and what I just posted was Proved to me through these dear old Saints with barely any brain left - in truth. The spirit doesn't get any diseases and that's where HIS Word is planted and stored and ready when needed without the need for their/our brain.

Any message that would take away, in the slightest, from our great-great need to be filled with His Word is from that "angel of light" that you and I spoke about - because that dark-one Knows that His Word is Light - Power - Life and Truth and why The Word was the Only thing that Jesus Himself used or needed against Satan's temptations. It's all we'll ever need. It's Life gives us His Spiritual Light and Life. Thy Word is a Lamp onto my feet and a Light upon my path - said the 5 wise virgins in His Spirit of Truth.
[Notice how the 5 foolish asked for more oil and were refused by the 5 wise and yet He hadn't come yet and there appears to have been a short time for them to go seek some, that they'd have to 'pay' for, before He came. Why would anyone need a lantern during the 'Brightness' of His Appearing had come 'right after' the call? Must have been a period of darkness to get through, before He Came.]

His Word is Spirit and Truth --- and that can be said as, "Spirit and The Word" ... same thing.

When I said that I hadn't seen any discussions between two people using Only His Word in 9 yrs - that's because the only site I knew that 'did' talk that way, closed down some yrs ago.

What I mean by 'study' is so simple compared to what 'studying' was, before computers. I have a few Bible programs, but I like the e-sword best and then I use another for the Greek grammar.
But this is how I read The Word ... using this version below, because you only need to hold the cursor over the number and not even have to click and the Strong's definition comes up .... Rom 1:12 (G1161) ThatG5124 is,G2076 that I may be comforted togetherG4837 withG1722 youG5213 byG1223 theG3588 mutualG1722 G240 faithG4102 bothG5037 of youG5216 andG2532 me.G1700

Many times, you'll see that some words have no number in some verses - so you know that the translators stuck that word in.

Then, if we look at a verse like John 3:16 and look at the grammar - we find that the KJV says "believeth", but the grammar is "continuous action", so it's really "continually believing".
That makes a very big difference with the "said a sinners' prayer one time" folks.

I'm not too big on the Commentary section, but in that section I do like TSK, Torrey's Scriptural Knowledge, because he gives the cross-references to most all of the verses. Not saying he could do it exhaustively for each verse - but when you go verse to verse - he gives more for those.

You could spend an entire day doing a study on just one verse. Sometimes two days. Sometimes even more. GOD's Word is fathomless and there's little to compare to spending the time studying this way. It's mind blowing actually because just the Greek is a language so unlike our own because though the Strong's is O.K. for an idea of the definition, in the Greek, they'll add a few letters before or after the word and that'll give you the tenses, gender and so much more. And because we're doing what The Holy Spirit was given to us for - He kicks in and the Joy and Awe is from His Joy - that John 16:13,14 over-drive [for the lack of a better word right now.]

Why folks find reading or studying His Word boring is because they haven't gotten into the Depths of it. Just cross-referencing alone is so exciting - to see how many verses from the O.T. are cross-referenced to the New - and that's when you realize that IT'S JESUS SPEAKING ALL THE WAY THROUGH THAT ENTIRE BOOK, FROM COVER TO COVER.

O.K... Now I just have to say WOW and I LOVE IT/HIM! :)

Bless you Sister. I pray you're strengthened daily in spirit by His Word.
Satan can't handle someone that is filled with Both - he can't 'confound' - His Spirit with The Truth of His Word .... Amen!

Even folks with Alzheimer. :) I am a witness of that fact.

His Love back to you.
Have a Great night!