I've been battling this recently, something that I never had before.
Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it.
Initially I thought it was God but now I'm not so sure, so would want to know whether the devil can do it so that I know better how to approach the situation in which I'm facing.
Thanks.
Are you speaking of physical pain, or spiritual?
spiritual pain
Hi! 'Learn'
You asked, "Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it?"
Ummm, I've never thought about this sort of thing previously. Neither is it that I can say that I've experienced such a thing for for myself.
But when your question resounded in my heart, I was immediately reminded of the Scripture saying, "And he sighed deeply in his spirit", (Jesus).
Afterwards, I hurried over to BlueLetterBible.org and looked up the intrinsic meaning behind the words "sighed deeply" and discovered the following: to draw up deep sighs from the bottom of the breast, to sigh deeply .
There is another reference which I found to be similar and that is Mark 7:34, "And looking up to heaven, he sighed", (Jesus).
I hope this might be of some help to you, 'Learn'.
Hi learn!
I need to tell you first, that I have truly and sincerely appreciated your spirit on this forum. I've wanted to say that before, but have been going in several directions since I've moved to my new home. My Dad and trying to stay in touch with folks almost around the globe. I don't have all the wherewithall neither the physical strength to always do it nor 'say' everything that I'm feeling inside because of the rush of it. Can barely get the out the words I'd like to put things in neither. But have felt convicted to tell you what I opened this paragraph with, indeed.
To ask or answer a question like this - we need to go to The Bible and seek our answers from there Only, for our own protection against human opinions based on human-experiences alone.
Through-out the Old Testament, can you tell someone where and under what conditions was the enemy spoken about?
Then next, we go to the New Testament and see, where and under what conditions the enemy was spoken about.
Do we have any great Prophets of GOD in the Old Testament that were "physically afflicted or in deep warfare" with an invisible "devil" or just humans attacking them?
In the New Testament - do we have any 'True' Christians, such as our Apostles, recorded there, that were physically or invisibly attacked by the enemy - either in their body or spiritually?
These are important questions to ask ourselves as we should know His Word and what the enemy 'can and can't do' to a genuine Child of GOD!
Something is bothering 'you'. You're picking up on something that is troubling your spirit/heart. I recommend that you read the Psalms and cry [literally] to GOD and ask Him to show you what is troubling your spirit. And I don't mean "demons" ... I mean that something is bothering you, yourself and only praying in the spirit, crying out alone to GOD will reveal what you're sensing or feeling in your heart and that will cause you to grow wiser/sronger in Christ, once He reveals to your heart, what is troubling you.
I call these times, "growing pains". Times of deeper 'revelation' from GOD.
Take it or leave it - but that's my reply.
Please stay with what The Word says about anything having to do with 'the enemy' - for Jesus' sake.
Col 1:16 For By Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created By Him, and For Him...
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
Will be praying for you, dear Saint!
In the love of Christ Jesus our LORD and very Protective 'Good' Shepherd.
learn,
The Lord is always bringing us into deeper areas of death in our self-life and in the holy management of our private thoughts. He does this gently, through the gradual increase of light in the secret areas of our heart. As more light increases, the more the mess of our unmortifed "fleshly nature" is revealed and exhorted to be put under the submission of the Spirit of God. This submission is accomplished via a mutual collaboration: by our spirits acquiescing to God's influence to overcome the flesh's power through grace. When we "cool off" and become lackadaisical in our upkeep of the new man's vitality, our girded mind begins to slip and our conscience, which is allied to God, sets off an alarm. This alarm will keep going off until the fire is put out.
The Lord uses the devil to wreak havoc in our minds, to tempt our souls, and to torment us with the grand design to drive us back to Christ's blood and to once again submit to His Spirit's dominion in our lives. He uses Satan like a tool in this regard. The fact that your heart "pains" is the deepest evidence that He cares for you. It is the effects of His on-going school of sanctification, which affords us priceless lessons to last for all eternity. When we start to drift, God brings a satanic storm to generate waves of pain to drive our vessels back to the shores of Christ. The waves of pain should always bring you back to ground zero: to a safe and dry Calvary.
Brother Paul
That is well stated, Paul.
Satan's oppression can cause much pain and yes he is God's tool to bring that pain for our hearts to be tested.
Pilgrim
Satan's oppression can cause much pain and yes he is God's tool to bring that pain for our hearts to be tested.
I've written a book that is sort of a little instruction booklet on spiritual warfare. It gives answers as to why born-again Christians suffer in the secret place of the heart. It sheds light on Satan's advancements through the ungirded mind with the aim to establish a stronghold in the heart. Strongholds are excruciatingly painful, and only God's power can get rid of them. But once they are gone, if we are not careful to keep our hearts and minds with all diligence, they can come back. The book I wrote explains the process by which they come, and then by which we are delivered from them, and by what means we are protected from becoming re-infected.
It is available here: http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Mortification-The-Pathway-Victory/dp/147017460X
But if you cannot afford it, please just email me and I'll send the manuscript to you free of charge. I believe every Christian needs to have this information; it will save you and the ones you love a massive amount or heartache and grief.
God bless and keep you in Christ's love.
Brother Paul
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I have a question on the use of the word "stronghold[s]".
Could you give New Testament evidence of such a phenomena.
The word itself, is only used once in Paul's writing, where he was using that word as "arguments" against himself.
But in regards to "sin" in general, through-out the New Testament - I only see commands to 'stop'.
Could you please back this 'principle' of "strongholds" with the Scriptures that confirm this belief to you?
Thank you!!
The word itself, is only used once in Paul's writing, where he was using that word as "arguments" against himself.
Strongholds - or fortresses - are "cast down" through the weaponry of God. In order for them to be broken down, they must first be built up. This is why I make a distinction between "stronghold sinning" and impulsive sinning. Impulsive sinning (i.e. a hasty word) can be immediately repented of and forsaken without emerging into a pattern. Stronghold sinning is a trap that dooms one to repeat over and over again. It is a dark spiritual addiction.
I understand you are a woman. If you would like to see a very real definition of a stronghold, speak with a Christian man who is under the power of internet pornography and hates it with all his might. He prays, he groans, he tries, he wills to stop. But he can't. Its claws are entrenched in his mind. A fight with his wife could spring it, or stress at work, or a failure of some sort. It's a "besetting sin" with claws sinking deep into his mind and taking root. He desperately tries to thwart its rearing, cries out to God to have mercy on him as he shamefully gives in again and again. It is a fortress of lust, a controlling spiritual principle embedded in his mind, a poisonous escape hatch from the reality of his miserable spiritual life. But he hates it and would do anything to be free from it. For others it can be food, alcohol, drugs, violent outbursts. I am speaking for born-again believers, mind you, and not heathen.
But in regards to "sin" in general, through-out the New Testament - I only see commands to 'stop'
Men and women who have been in bondage to strongholds know what I am talking about, and they can tell you all about it. They can also tell you how wonderful it was when God at last freed them. It had nothing to do with them "stopping"; God showered them with grace, broke the devil's power in their mind, and swept their heart clean. Now, they can "stop" when the old temptations come to re-erect new strongholds, because they war from inside a clean heart and pure conscience. They can keep the "strongman" from re-invading. Once he is in, however, they need deliverance. Mere "stopping" cannot work at this point. And even if they are able to stop the physical manifestations; the inner heart is already infected and seething with the grips of secret lust.
Hope this helps.
Thank you for your reply, Paul. I do understand the battle of flesh and spirit mentioned in Gal 5 and Rom 8 but in context of 2Corth 10, the whole of that chpt is Paul needing to defend his ministry.
I'm looking for scripture that proves out your belief in sin becoming a "stronghold" and where the person has a "strongman" and that "once he is in, however, they need deliverance."
Brother, I'm truly not challenging you - I just can't find any Scripture to back this about "sin" - and that's breaking my heart - please understand.
Brother, I'm truly not challenging you - I just can't find any Scripture to back this about "sin" - and that's breaking my heart - please understand.
It only means this is for someone else right now, and not you.
God bless,
Brother Paul
I have a reason for asking, Brother Paul. I do know the verse about "a root of bitterness" but could you help me find the one about "besetting sins"? I typed it into a KJV search and it's not coming up.
Maybe, if I post to you what I had asked another member, you could also answer this for me...
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Would you say that this person was at one time saved but now is not, if they die in this condition? Or were they never saved? The word "recover" is why I'm asking.
RE:// but could you help me find the one about "besetting sins"? //
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily ((beset)) us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
For many years I have felt led to pray for revival in our community-my wife and myself also minister to people to whom the Lord leads us who may not necessarily come from pretty situations. We have experienced demonic attacks against our minds, our bodies, our home and even our property which we share very little about to others because we would be considered insane if we would. If we leave the comfortable confines of religious mediocracy and immerse ourselves into the battle for God's Kingdom, I believe that we can expect to stir up an enraged "waspsnest" in the kingdom of darkness because we pose a threat to their dominion. There is no trite theological formula for every situation that we are confronted with-as was the case with Job or Daniel; we cannot see what is taking place in the spiritual realm, even though we may feel its reverbations. That is when we need to take on the armour of prayer and come to the God Who is sufficient for all things to seek specific direction and Divine protection. If we have never endured the fierce heat of the battle it can be all too easy to have neat "Biblical" theories about spiritual warfare. The Spirit never leads us contrary to the Word but we need His direct leading with the Word.
Thank you, PaPa. I'm fitting puzzle pieces together and appreciate your help!
Robertson's [Greek]: "The sin which doth so easily beset us (te¯n euperistaton hamartian). “The easily besetting sin.” There are a dozen possible renderings of this double compound verbal from eu, well, and periiste¯mi, to place around or to stand around (intransitive). The Vulgate has circumstans nos peccatum (the sin standing around us). Probably this is the true idea here, “the easily encompassing (or surrounding) sin.” In this case apostasy from Christ was that sin. In our cases it may be some other sin. The verbal adjective reminds one of the ring of wild beasts in the jungle that encircle the camp-fire at night each ready to pounce upon a careless victim."
Vincent's [Greek] - "And the sin which doth so easily beset (καὶ τὴν ευπερίστατον αμαρτίαν)
Καὶ adds to the general encumbrance a specific encumbrance or hindrance. Ευπερίστατος N.T.o , olxx, oClass. From ευ readily, deftly, cleverly, and περιΐ̀στασθαι to place itself round. Hence, of a sin which readily or easily encircles and entangles the Christian runner, like a long, loose robe clinging to his limbs. Beset is a good rendering, meaning to surround. In earlier English especially of surrounding crowns, etc., with jewels.
The sin may be any evil propensity. The sin of unbelief naturally suggests itself here."
Brother beekpr - I went off this site to get away to pray but couldn't shake the burden I feel to speak to you. Please understand that I don't desire to upset you in any way whatsoever and that is why I hesitated to post this to you.
You and your wife need to learn your Authority in Christ.
I've dealt with multiple cases of demon possessed people and I will tell you why The LORD allowed that to be a part of my life .... so that I would learn what power demons DON'T have over a blood-washed and bought Saint, that is in His Will.
They have No Power but what we imagine they have or yeild/give them - unless we are in rebellion of any kind.
IF the enemy knows that you don't Fully know who you are in Christ - he'll gainsay over you as you've described.
I've had demons come at me from every angle that one can name and as I learned "through Scripture" where I stand in Christ and where they stand with Christ - I finally came to realize that if the Apostles didn't have these types of phenomena - then neither should we.
The enemy loves to spook people that go outside of Scripture, as far as giving the enemy more authority than what he has - and The LORD will allow it, until we go to His Word and learn from the prophets and the apostles what the enemy can and can't do.
The "neat Biblical theories" work - If they are indeed "Biblical" - but many people go beyond what is written and are personally attacked and GOD allows it, because they have believed "a lie" Beyond "what is written".
You have to get to the point that you only depend on His Word and the experiences of the Saints 'in The Word'.
Pride of one's ministry will open the door to these types of phenomena and also ignorance of our authority in Christ Jesus, From The Word of GOD alone.
Show me where in The WORD of GOD that any of these occurences have happened to those that posed the Greatest Danger to Satan's Kingdom - starting from the book of Acts on - or anywhere else that you choose to start... ""We have experienced demonic attacks against our minds, our bodies, our home and even our property""
What I did in my early years [very early 80's] of dealing with this type of phenomena, because of the ministry I had been called to, was to hand-write into a notebook, all the verses that proclaim who we are In Christ.
'Any' phenomena that is not found happening to a Saint in The Word of GOD, is a phenomena that we should 'instantly' reject. Resist and it will flee because the enemy has no grounds to these areas you've noted - but if we believe the lie from him or self, that he does have this authority or have ground or authority to these areas of our lives, he'll play havoc and all the more as we enter into the last days.
Why we're not to go beyond what is written.
His Peace to you and yours and my prayers!
Sounds like a burden of the Lord more than something from the devil.Can the devil actually make your heart extremely pained to the point that you hardly can bear it?
It would be nice if you could explain what your feeling.
Does this spiritual pain 'feel' overwhelming, are you easily moved to tears when you talk about the Lord? Do you have an urgent need to pray? If you have any of these, I'd say it's what we call a burden of the Lord.
I've had them before but not often. The last one was during 9/11 and I had no idea what was transpiring in New York City at the time until afterward but I felt this overwhelming need to pray and to weep. I had another one a few years prior to that and It 'felt' like a heavy blanket was on me and I knew the presence of God was around me and anyone that came into that radius felt something and the conversation changed to a holiness which I can't explain not even to this day. Sometimes you can pray when that happens other times you just have to wait it out and allow the Lord to do what He desires to do with you.
There is another explanation and has nothing to do with the devil.
1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Initially I thought it was God but now I'm not so sure, so would want to know whether the devil can do it so that I know better how to approach the situation in which I'm facing.
That reminds me of the blind man in the gospel account. Some people were (seemingly) trying to get at the root of this problem, so they asked Jesus: “Jesus, who sinned this man or his parents?” The answer to that question was irrelevant. What was important was that God would be glorified through this blindness. And that’s just what happened when Jesus restored his sight.
Likewise, in your case, my friend. Through whatever is happening in your life, may God work in such a way that you come to enjoy a far grander sense of God; and may he be glorified through it all.
Diane
Thank you all.
Paul West--I'm going to send you an email for the manuscript. Thanks for the kind offer.
JIG-Thanks for your prayer and kind words.
I have only read some posts here. Will need to read and meditate/ponder on the posts for a while to see how/what I need to do before posting. Pray for strength and that I will look unto Jesus-the author and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
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