Frustration and 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Where are the "big name" preachers who actually stand up and support someone / something in this country?

The Wisconsin pastor who preaches the the bible in regards to spanking and is going to prison for 2 years?? - Where in the name of God are the godly men in this land to stand up for God's Holy Word and righteousness?

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/pastor-sentenced-to-2-years-in-prison-for-teaching-that-parents-should-spank-their-children

These men are like the Pharisees in that they love the applause of men (from varying "christian circles"), yet they are NOT doing the will of God with where God (or maybe it's just Satan) has put them.

John MacArthur and his "Grace To You" with their "unleashing the Bible one verse at time" - where he is now to say something about a pastor being incarcerated - INCARCERATED - for two years because he preached that parents must discipline their children with the rod?

All these "guys" like John Piper, Mark Driscoll, Together For The Gospel Coalitions, all the radio boys Hank Hanegraf, Chuck Misler, Dobson, Charles Stanley - all these men with the esteem and platforms (sermons, twitter, etc) - WHERE ARE THEY TO STAND FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS - they are SILENT on basically everything happening in our nation.

Where are they to stand beside the "no-name" Christians in this country who are being persecuted for following Jesus? (notice how it is none of the "big name" preachers who have the legal issues, or the persecutions from the world).

Ie: where are the thousands of preachers in America to stand up and say that God commands children to be disciplined with spanking, and that the state has no business in sending a preacher to jail for God`s word? Do they even care?

I believe most of them are bare minimum cowards, and many are lost men according to 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:

13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

ps - my name on here "righteousnew" was supposed to be "righteousnews" and was shortened. I am a sinner saved by grace who knows what I was, and even more who I am - a wicked sinner apart from the shed blood of our risen Christ.

more background on pastor sentenced to prison for preaching on spanking:

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/118298329.html

Matthew 28:20 - and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This was the news I found on this man from Christianity today:

A Wisconsin trial court judge denied a motion to dismiss charges against a convicted pastor who instructed his church members to use wooden rods to spank misbehaving children, some as young as two months old.

Philip Caminiti, pastor of Aleitheia Bible Church in Black Earth, Wisconsin, was convicted of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse in March. He faces up to six years of prison time; his sentencing hearing is scheduled for later this month.

Caminiti argued the convictions violate his right to religious freedom. But Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi disagreed, stating that though Caminiti had “a sincerely held religious belief” to use a rod to discipline young children, he failed to prove Wisconsin’s child abuse statue “places a burden” on that belief.

“Scripture doesn't specify how and when the rod should be used,” Sumi ruled.

In January, Christianity Today examined arguments for and against corporal punishment, as the misuse of biblical teaching on discipline can have deadly consequences.
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Of course I do not know how accurate the content in this article is but will say that "if" it is correct then the man does seem guilty of encouraging child abuse. To beat a 2 month old on their bare bottom I do not believe is what the Bible speaks to as Biblical disciplining of a child.There is an age to which use of the rod does come into raising a child but not at two months old. I don't know all the details of this case, seems like there might be more going on and would need to read further but as the pastor of the group of believers he was leading he used his position to influence those in his care and I would consider that an abuse of authority.

Just my thoughts
God bless
mj

Edited

Michael Pearl has come under alot of heat from the entertainment media for His book to train up a child,

Having myself read the book, it is bizzar how dishonest and twisted the news media has reported what the book says.

Maryjane,

You seem to have a balanced approach to the matter.

The original post however, isn't clear on what is being said or stated.

It seems to be deliberately posted as volatile, to stir up emotions, rather than to ask for prayer for someone who is in prison though not guilty of the said crime, as opposed to sin.

Should it be, that only those 'famous' preachers should be in prison, or only they should be protesting, when even they don't know the full story, or have never even heard of it?

I have to question the motive behind the thread. Just seems somewhat bitter.

Michael Pearl has come under alot of heat from the entertainment media for His book to train up a child,

Having myself read the book it is bizzar how dishonest and twisted the news media has reported what the book says.

________________________________

I will agree that the media can lie when it comes to these kinds of things that is why I said if what is written is true. Now I have a question at what age do you think the rod should be used? Do you believe on an infant of 2 months old should receive spankings?

God Bless
mj

There are background facts in this case which shed light on his prison sentence.

1) "The children were beaten for of all things doing what children do, and that is crying,"

2) He taught his flock to administer corporal punishment upon children as young as 2 MONTHS OLD!

by enid on 2012/7/30 5:51:43

Maryjane,

You seem to have a balanced approach to the matter.

The original post however, isn't clear on what is being said or stated.

It seems to be deliberately posted as volatile, to stir up emotions, rather than to ask for prayer for someone who is in prison though not guilty of the said crime, as opposed to sin.

Should it be, that only those 'famous' preachers should be in prison, or only they should be protesting, when even they don't know the full story, or have never even heard of it?

I have to question the motive behind the thread. Just seems somewhat bitter.
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Enid
Thank you for your comment I do believe their is wisdom in what you said about the motive behind the op starting this thread and the other.

God bless
maryjane

RE:MJ //Do you believe on an infant of 2 months old should receive spankings?//

A spanking will not work at 2 months now 2 years is a different situation but there are ways in which we communicate our points to infants.

What do mothers do when a 2 month old bites to hard on the nipple??

Give them a bottle.

by enid on 2012/7/30 6:22:58

Give them a bottle.

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Now that was very funny :)

God bless
maryjane

QUOTE: "A Wisconsin trial court judge denied a motion to dismiss charges against a convicted pastor who instructed his church members to use wooden rods to spank misbehaving children, some as young as two months old.

Philip Caminiti, pastor of Aleitheia Bible Church in Black Earth, Wisconsin, was convicted of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse in March. He faces up to six years of prison time; his sentencing hearing is scheduled for later this month."==MARY JANE

Thank you Mary Jane for providing "the rest of the story"!
This pastor was rightly convicted! THIS IS ABUSE! IT IS ABUSE TO USE A ROD ON A YOUNG CHILD! As a person who suffered much abuse at the hands of my parents, and was beaten with just about every manner of object, I find great offense in this. And spanking should never be used on a child unless he/she is in overt rebellion. Even James Dobson said THAT much, and he is an advocate of spanking. Any parent who has to use a rod on a 2 yr old does NOT know how to parent!! What a shame and outrage! What shame he brings on the name of Christ!! And parents who only know how to spank as a form of discipline are very lacking in intelligence and creativity!

I have cared for all manner of children, including spoiled brats, so i DO know there ARE children who DO need to be spanked, as they have a spirit of rebellion created by many years of permissiveness and bad parenting. I have NOT had the pleasure of spanking them(lol)as it was not my place and i am sure they have grown up to be frightful,haughty, demanding, spoiled adults now, but they are very different from the children who are naughty but NOT spoiled and NOT full of rebellion. There are many forms of discipline that can and should be used before one should resort to spanking. I speak from experience as one who has cared for a great many children and who has had the respect of them. The most important thing in disciplining children is CONSISTENCY and that is where so many parents fail, and then they wonder why they have no control when the kids become teens.

Righteousnew, you are wrong in judging all those godly men who have not stepped up to support that pastor; they are practicing discretion and discernment. This is just one pastor, not a whole slew of pastors being persecuted for teaching discipline. Dobson, who also teaches spanking, was never fined or jailed, so obviously this pastor did something out of the ordinary. There is much more the the story.

QUOTE: Give them a bottle.

ROFL! good one

QUOTE:
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What do mothers do when a 2 month old bites to hard on the nipple??

______________________________________________________________

Yell, "OUCH!"

Yes, been there and done that and and did what the others suggested: give a bottle and quit breast feeding.

But to spank an infant for biting? A two month old?

I wonder what his wife would say about how well he functions as a dad. Or, his children. I would guess there is an unreported story.

RE: //But to spank an infant for biting? A two month old?//

Hi ginnyrose, I hope you did not misinterpet what I was implying, I was not at all indorsing spanking a 2 month old.

Edit: I was just commenting that there where other ways to get our point across to infants rather than spanking and asking what Mothers that Breastfeed do. I am of the impression that there are no mothers on this forum whom have breastfeed because to give an answer as to give them a bottle is about silly.

Many Godly preachers on SI endorse child training with a spanking Denny keanaston, keith Daniels, etc. none whatsoever endorse abuse of any kind.

It is sad that so many in our Christian culture are becoming so much like our secular culture that they can not relate a biblical loving non emotional swat out side of abuse.

We have very few true Bible Believers in the world today

Proverbs 23
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

by proudpapa on 2012/7/30 9:39:54

Many Godly preachers on SI endorse child training with a spanking Denny keanaston, keith Daniels, etc. none whatsoever endorse abuse of any kind.

It is sad that so many in our Christian culture are becoming so much like our secular culture that they can not relate a biblical loving non emotional swat out side of abuse.

We have very few true Bible Believers in the world today

Proverbs 23
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

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Proudpapa
I have no issue with using the rod to punish a child when warranted but spanking a newborn infant goes way beyond that. The term infant describes a baby to my understanding, one who is helpless an unable to take care of themselves. A child has reached a certain age, and can understand yes and no, right from wrong. There is a difference here(edit I know that you realize this as well as I am sure many others who post here do to :)

I think we should keep this in perspective. What this man in the original post did was sin and wrong.He was not teaching the Biblical principal of training a child how they should go...

God bless
maryjane

by proudpapa on 2012/7/30 9:17:32

RE: //But to spank an infant for biting? A two month old?//

Hi ginnyrose, I hope you did not misinterpet what I was implying, I was not at all indorsing spanking a 2 month old.

Edit: I was just commenting that there where other ways to get our point across to infants rather than spanking and asking what Mothers that Breastfeed do. I am of the impression that there are no mothers on this forum whom have breastfeed because to give an answer as to give them a bottle is about silly.

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Yes I have breast feed my children but I still thought the answer to give a bottle was made to be funny which it was :)

I do know there are other ways to deal with an infant when they bite down hard. Edited: I wanted to remove some of my response to better reflect what I meant to say.

God Bless
maryjane

Let me make clear, I am against hitting infants!!!

by proudpapa on 2012/7/30 10:04:10

Let me make clear, I am against hitting infants!!

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Thank you for sharing that with us. I did not mean to imply in my response to you that you were supporting it. I realize in my zeal to stress that no one should strike an infant my response may have come across as being directed to you personally, I am sorry for that. I will go back and edit my post to try and make it more clear.

God bless
maryjane