Should A Christian USE A Gun?

I am trying to put a much finer point on the question than the "should a christian own a gun" thread. I asked this question but it was virtually ignored. This "hypothetical" is actually based pretty closely on an incident in Texas a few years back.

I am assuming in the question you are a male. However, if you are a female remove the mother (yourself) from the scene and suppose you walked upon it and it was just your two daughters in the house... in either case ... what would you do?

What if you came home to find your wife beaten and tied to a kitchen chair with duct tape. Your two teenage daughters also beaten, bound feet and hands and laying on the floor. Two men are in your house that did this. They are eating the supper on the table prepared by your family. You see the situation through the door window but they did not spot you. However, you do hear them tell your wife and daughters that they are going to rape them after they eat and then slit their throats. They are going to make your wife watch your daughters be raped and killed before they do the same to her. These men have no guns. They were just bigger and stronger. HOWEVER, you have a shotgun and pistol in your workshop in the back. You can get one of those firearms and save your wife and daughters from rape and murder... or you can let it happen... or you can call the police who will make out a nice report when they come to work the murder scene in a couple of hours. Bottom line...you step in and make a move to save your wife and daughters from rape and murder now or it will happen starting in 2 minutes.

You now have 120 seconds before it begins.... what do you do? The clock is now ticking......

This "hypothetical" is actually based pretty closely on an incident in Texas a few years back.

What if ….

You now have 120 seconds before it begins.... what do you do? The clock is now ticking......

Just a quick interjection. This way of doing ethics is called “situation ethics”. It is falling into disfavor.

For now, I offer a few quotes that reflect a different approach:

“Ethics is about people not about actions. The heart of ethics lies in the formation of character. Once out in the “battlefield” it is too late.”

An example is given of a doctor who handled an emergency badly and a child died. I quote: “It wasn’t on that day that he failed – but 39 years before.” He had not prepared adequately for his profession. “Ethics is not primarily about the operating room. It’s about the training field, the practice hall, the library, mentoring session…. The battle for the lost child was lost on the golf course. (…) By putting the emphasis on the operation room, (or any location of crisis) contemporary ethics makes moral life seem like AN AGONY OF IMPOSSIBLE CHOICES.

“The great majority of life is spent in preparation: This is where the emphasis in Christian ethics needs to be. And the experience of grace in the moment of crisis, of decision – the ‘situation’ come not through being clever or inspired in the moment, but through the habits formed through life preparation. S. Wells

That raises the question: Biblically speaking, what life habits shape a person for those times of moral crisis?

Diane

I would not kill them until they killed my wife and daughter. I can not promise that if I used a gun it would kill them, so therefore no I would not use a gun. I would bust in with my muscles *insert scrauny individual* and fight the good fight to save my family from the tormentors.

I would have already called police, and maybe had brandished the gun for a deterrant. Through these actions I believe my family would be saved. My answers are seemingly just as hypothetical as your situation you gave me, though.

God would give me strength to rescue my family.

I believe if one kills another, his blood should be shed as well. I do not believe equal punishment is defined in Scripture in the case of a rape, but killing is clearly defined. I would take equal action if I came in just as they killed my family.

Having pondered and read related materials, the question above
is a very difficult one to handle.

I won't condemn nor demean a christian who will use deadly force like gun in such a clear and present danger to himself and his family and where authorities are of no help.

Now, the case is about a common heinous crime and not about political, nor religious persecution, etc.

Our fellowship, basically one can say is a pacifist in beliefs. One day, one of our brothers, formerly a moslem, was shot multiple times by a cal .45 pistol, at point blank, by some fundamentalists from his former group. However, the gun juct clicked and clicked but did not really fired, he went home without a scratch.

Agree, it is topic which one may say "where even angels should fear to tread".

No Sin in using a Gun, Godly Christians use Guns everyday. Most Guns are never used for the sinful purposes. I think Pilgrims Thread /Should Christians kill people?/ is much more appropriately written

Here is another viewpoint from Michael Pearl related to this subject:

"Dear Mr. Pearl:

I have a question concerning self defense in the home and while “out and about” with my children. My husband wants me to get a conceal-and-carry license and to carry a small handgun.

I am in somewhat of a turmoil as I want to obey my husband and of course I want to protect my children. Do I have a right biblically though to protect my kids with force? Also, should Christians go off to war and fight? What about “Thou shalt not kill?” Thank you for any help you might give me.

Michael answers:

Christians should be entirely pacifists in the face of legally-sanctioned persecution. If the government comes after Believers for their faith in Christ, we should be entirely non-resistant, as it says in Romans 13. Likewise, if a Christian is living in a land dominated by another religion, as is the case with 100,000 believers living in Iraq, and the Muslim religion were to launch a campaign of persecution against Christians, we should again practice staunch non-violence.

But, if a believer is appointed by his government to bear the sword, as is the case with a soldier or policeman, then he is the arm of God’s justice and should practice violence as is necessary, and no more. If a believer is the object of attempted random assault by a crazed dopehead or an evil man controlled by Satan, he is not at liberty before God to be non-resistant. He must defend himself, his family, and any other innocent party of which he is capable. Self-defense is sanctioned under the laws God gave to Israel and no where in the New Testament does God revoke the duty to self defense.

We have a Mennonite neighbor who practiced non-resistance under all circumstances. Some evil men found out about it and came into his home demanding to take sexual liberties with all his daughters. He did not resist but gave them his younger daughters as well. The men returned. His daughters became pregnant and bore [children]. No man ever wanted them for wives. He stood by and watched the evil men strip and rape his daughters. It destroyed the family. They had to move so as to cease being used by evil men at their will. He was a fool. His doctrine was of the Devil. He should have risen up in righteous wrath and slain the enemy, like Joshua of old.

I have been struck and pushed and cursed for the gospel’s sake. I have had my life threatened several times. I have been non-resistant in all cases, but when I came across a man raping a woman in the woods, I reached for my pistol and saved her life. To this day she is thankful that I was not a pacifist. She didn’t need a spectator; she needed a deliverer.

The doctrine of pacifism is a selfish doctrine of weak men who are not led by the Spirit and are seeking salvation in their own sacrifice. I will have no part of it."

Is the Christian prepared to deal with the consequences of taking a life? Is the Christian prepared to deal with the memories and trauma of what will follow knowing they have taken a life of another?

Hypothetical situations keep our eyes focusing in the wrong place. Let's admit, we also have a moral obligation regarding our calling towards hospitality. Yet we are unlikely to spend an entire thread on the topic: Should I buy an extra set of serving bowls in case I might need it someday? That is a wrong focus (yet we can spend a lot of time thinking such thoughts). The focus is on our own character preparedness long before we find ourselves with a gun in our face or company dropping in unexpectedly.

I draw from another thread, because it is most helpful – and it supports, in part, bearmaster’s reference to preparedness:

Reading in 2 Chronicles 12:14 today and noticed something interesting...

It says:

14 And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the Lord.

What is interesting is what it does NOT say. It does not say that he did evil because he failed to seek the Lord, but because he did not PREPARE HIS HEART to seek the Lord. One thing i know is that God never wastes words. Think about it; it COULD have just said (and one would have expected it to say), "And he did evil, because he did not seek the Lord."

What does preparation involve. Consider Eph 6: “Put on the spiritual armor of God so that when the day of evil comes you will stand firm.” That points to the thread “Slaying the Giant…” Faith is one of the key weapons in the armor:

"Without faith it is impossible to please God…”

To that, we could add: "Everything that does not come from FAITH is sin." Rom. 14: 23 But faith grows over time and through testings. That’s the preparation- long before the gun is pointing in our face, or company drops in for dinner, or whatever unexpected situation we find ourselves in. We "slay the giant" long before the crisis - through life habits that build faith. Reading the bible and praying are important - yet even in those practices we can still remain untrusting. And then, we are just as unprepared as a pagan. We will inevitably resort to our fear responses – in situations far less traumatic than a murderer entering our home. It may more likely be company entering our home suddenly. That can set us into a panic too.

Consider this: As we grow stronger in trusting faith we will likely have less regrets over our actions – whatever they may be.

Meanwhile a preoccupation with hypothetical situations may rob us of the mental space and time needed to build our faith.

Diane

Consider this: As we grow stronger in trusting faith we will likely have less regrets over our actions – whatever they may be.

Meanwhile a preoccupation with hypothetical situations may rob us of the mental space and time needed to build our faith.

Diane
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I thought what you shared here was spot on! I stopped with all the "what ifs" awhile ago. I see those kinds of scenarios as attacks from the enemy for just the reason you shared, they get our minds off of JESUS and on to self and how we would react...

Keep my eyes on the LORD and HE will take care of the rest :)

God bless
mj

I am finding it very interesting that almost no one is able, or willing, to answer the question I posed in a direct manner. I have asked it in two threads now and except for a couple of responses virtually every post "asks another question", or "looks at another angle" or takes the discussion away from the topic and hijacks the thought to a different area..... but will not answer the question straight up or down.

Why is that? Fear..possibly. Sticking ones head in the sand...maybe. Just uncomfortable addressing such a topic...it could be. Something else...might be.

Hmmm... what does that tell me?

Does anyone have the courage of convictions to straight up declare they would save their daughters and wives from rape and murder with the use of deadly force?

Does anyone have the courage of convictions to straight up declare they would NOT save their daughters and wives from rape and murder with the use of deadly force and just leave whatever happens to them in God's hands?

I found the most interesting response to be the one where the poster said he would wait until they killed his family and THEN use deadly force. I did not anticipate someone giving that response.

@ roadsign - the question isn't about situational ethics. What I am looking to discover is how the ethics we who call ourselves Christians are played out in high trauma situations. In essence, how does our belief in Christ affect our actions in ultra high stress environments. How do we who call ourselves Christians respond when it isn't easy and unforseen destruction potentially rears its head. This gets much deeper into the heart of who we are. You never really know what you or others are made of, and adhere to, until we face things that place us under pressure to the point of it "revealing by fire" what we are inside.

So, again I am asking for a straight up answer.... you have 120 seconds to save the lives of your wife and daughters from rape and having their throats slit. Or....you can just leave it in God's hands and choose another course of action. If so what course would you choose.

Which is it...what exactly would you do?

I don't know if I would save them (I might die) but if someone broke into my house and did not have a weapon, I would try to physically subdue them. If they had a weapon, I would probably die trying to take it away. My wife and daughters know the Lord, by the way. They would not be able to subdue him, but they would be praying loudly in the Spirit, I am sure.

Again, if he had no weapon, I would probably subdue him as I am a pretty big guy and in good shape. But, I can't trust in myself.

Pilgrim

P.S. I don't keep my firearms at my house. It helps me to trust the Lord 100% rather than trust a false security. And He has taken care of us for 23 years. No alarms on the house, no dogs, just GOD.

Next hypothetical question?

So, again I am asking for a straight up answer...

Jesus was sometimes asked questions that required straight up answers. But he felt no obligation to answer.

Sometimes you have to change the question. Your question a case where there are some who can see much further in the field of ethics - and question the wisdom of such a question.

Diane

Quote/
What does preparation involve. Consider Eph 6: “Put on the spiritual armor of God so that when the day of evil comes you will stand firm.” That points to the thread “Slaying the Giant…” Faith is one of the key weapons in the armor:

"Without faith it is impossible to please God…”

To that, we could add: "Everything that does not come from FAITH is sin." Rom. 14: 23 But faith grows over time and through testings. That’s the preparation- long before the gun is pointing in our face, or company drops in for dinner, or whatever unexpected situation we find ourselves in. We "slay the giant" long before the crisis - through life habits that build faith. Reading the bible and praying are important - yet even in those practices we can still remain untrusting. And then, we are just as unprepared as a pagan. We will inevitably resort to our fear responses – in situations far less traumatic than a murderer entering our home. It may more likely be company entering our home suddenly. That can set us into a panic too.

Consider this: As we grow stronger in trusting faith we will likely have less regrets over our actions – whatever they may be.
/Quote

Oh, that Christians would truly get this message in Diane’s post. We must be preparing ourselves in seeking the Lord on a daily basis. We are to be filled with the Spirit to be led by the Spirit in all that we do. We are to do nothing on our own but always depending on the guidance of the Holy Spirit as we make the “Word of God” a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our pathway.

Now the question is “Should a Christian use a gun?” and to that I would reply that it all depends on if he even has a gun. Now I presently don’t have a gun but what I do have is much more powerful than a gun. Now if I had a gun in my reach and depended on it for protection and someone was about to do bodily harm to my family then I am sure that I would use it because I love my family. But I don’t depend on a gun for protection but my Lord in whom I believe will always deliver me from every evil work. Now I don’t judge others who may not have that kind of faith because I didn’t always have this kind of faith myself. I believe that it is not a flesh and blood warfare but spiritual wickedness in high places that are a work doing the evil through humans given over the prince of the power of the air. I believe as a Christian we are to put on the whole armor of God. We are to be strong in the Lord and the power of His might.

Another thing is that I don’t believe the way some pacifists believe that we are to stand by and do nothing. God has baptized me in the Holy Ghost with power from on high and I will not use that power for the destruction of God’s people, but I will be use by that power, for the destruction of evil. The bible says that we are to resist the devil and I will not stand by and allow the devil to kill, steal, and destroy. Now I believe that God can keep my family from the devil’s evil works, and I also believe that if I, my family, or neighbor is faced with someone trying to do evil to them then I have an understanding that all power has been given to Jesus and that means all power is living in me. I’m telling you that being in and under the power of the Holy Spirit I could walk right up and get right in the face of that devil and command him to obey the One who has all power. I’m telling you that God can fill you with the Holy Spirit at any time and any place for any occasion if you have been baptized and are continually being filled and led by the Holy Spirit. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus said wait until you are endued with power from on high. The Apostle Paul was stoned, beaten, persecuted, and almost killed on several occasions but that power of the Holy Spirit kept Him going. But there were times when he was used by the power of the Holy Spirit against evil, like the time when a sorcerer was trying to turn a deputy away from the faith.

Acts 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Praise the Lord, we don’t need a gun. We need the power of the Holy Spirit. Let’s prepare ourselves to seek Him until we are filled and endued with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Blessings…from brother rbanks

QUOTE:
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So, again I am asking for a straight up answer.... you have 120 seconds to save the lives of your wife and daughters from rape and having their throats slit. Or....you can just leave it in God's hands and choose another course of action. If so what course would you choose.

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I do not know. A body cannot plan that far ahead.

However, as a woman I would likely 'scream bloody-murder'. I would trust the Holy Spirit to give me the grace and where-with-all to do what I could to divert the fulfillment of evil.

I daily trust the LORD for his protection. I am a short woman, less then five feet tall. Any one could easily overpower me because I do not have the physical ability to withstand that power. When this reality sank into my consciousness, I resolved to trust my physical well-belling to the LORD. And He has. Anything dramatic? I do not know, but I do live without fear. If I ever experience fear, then I know I am in a place where evil could triumph. When this happens and it has been rare, I pray diligently for God's protection and am very alert to what may be threatening and take the necessary precautions to protect myself.

This Mennonite man who allowed his daughters to be raped...gag! I do not know of any Christian Mennonite man that would allow it! Seriously! And I live among them - this is my heritage and affiliation by choice. Mennonite men would not kill but they would work to protect their wives and daughters.

God bless.

if I shot another because he tries to shot me, or shot my, father, mother, brother, sister etc then I am acting out of the fall , as the old law says eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth, if eternal Life is present in me, in any measure the God who will not allow me to be tempted above measure will give the divine energy to bear it. Those in the eternal life of Christ are not persecution seekers but they know because the eternal Life that is working in them is of a different order than the principles that govern those in the fall and in the law they must faced persecution in different ways and in such times they know Gods best , because in such times more Life is being pour in them that they might be able to bear what seems impossible to those in the fall and in the law. If any wish to be part of the kingdom of Christ He should know in that kingdom what must govern His being is the eternal Life in Christ Jesus not the Love he have for his wife, brothers , sister, father etc. No love that he have for all this earthly relation will make him go out of order when that eternal life is working in him. In fact the reason we have wars in the world is because of “ my nation, my tribe, my race, my family “ and any who act in such principles is not acting in eternal life but the fall in the law.

Shoot.

Ruf

I am finding it very interesting that almost no one is able, or willing, to answer the question I posed in a direct manner. I have asked it in two threads now and except for a couple of responses virtually every post "asks another question", or "looks at another angle" or takes the discussion away from the topic and hijacks the thought to a different area..... but will not answer the question straight up or down.

Why is that? Fear..possibly. Sticking ones head in the sand...maybe. Just uncomfortable addressing such a topic...it could be. Something else...might be.
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IF we are told not to worry about wars, floods, famine, earth quakes...if we are told not to worry about what we will eat, where we will sleep or cloth or selves with, then why would it be alright in the eyes of the LORD to ponder on these kinds of “what if” scenarios?

If I have a plan in my head on how I will react to “possible” future situations then who is leading me daily in my life...me or JESUS?

Its interesting that Paul after being told many times that he was going to meet his end in Rome made no plan on how to handle that end he just said I am going to go...guess he wasn't focusing on the “what ifs” probably he was focused on JESUS.

(I know I did not answer your questioned but then again after much prayer about your question this was the answer I received)

God bless
maryjane