TRUE CHRISTIANITY

He will be Lord of all of your life or Lord of none of it..........bro Frank

Hi MJ, Jesus really speaks plainly when He states.......

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Of course he goes on to give a couple of examples of what happens to those who come to Christianity with cheap grace, they will not be able to fininsh the race, finish what they themselves started, one must count the cost prior to salvation and the giving over of one's complete life must take place. How God goes about taking what was given to Him is obviously His business and sanctification comes into play........... bro Frank

True Christianity is really just embracing, walking in, enjoying and participating in Christ's Life daily in our union with Him. Now all of this is just the result of what God in Christ has already accomplished for us and in us.

MJ writes...........

"I am not miserable... I am learning from the LORD to walk closer to HIM and not hold on to the things of this world. Sometimes these lessons in my life can be painful, but as I see the love and care HE has for me and why HE is teaching and growing me in the areas HE is I give thanks."

Jimp writes........

"hi, so true christianity as being miserable, hating your parents, merose, beat up, sad,busy trying to be sanctified. you all go ahead i am going to rest in the joy of my salvation and the finished work of Jesus and the easy,sleazy grace that He has provided for me. Who would want to serve a God that makes people so miserable?jimp"

I am assuming Jimp, that this comment is a reference to the words of Jesus I gave from Luke 14. Since Jesus spoke these words you must speak to Him about them. What I love about the saint that has taken hold of costly grace, is that, despite their circumstances they find joy in knowing Him. Thier joy is not dependent upon their circumstances, indeed quite the opposite. Their joy is complete whether they are healthy or wealthy, whether they see miracles or whether they do not because their joy is complete in Him. They worship and find joy in a God that calls them to suffering, who calls them to take up their cross daily and who might even call them to martyrdom. The world does not marvel at men who are full of joy because of their circumstances being good, but they do marvle at a man who should be miserable because he has nothing or has lost everything yet in spite of all that he is full of joy. This is the witness and it is a beautiful thing to behold. If one is miserable because of their circumstances then they worship a God upon whom they have laid conditions, this is a God of their own making and this god cannot bring joy, the only joy that those who have done this can have is the same joy of those of the world.............bro Frank

"I think it really comes down to anything that we value, hold on to, or give place to above JESUS is holding on to the world. SO for example if I place a greater value on receiving the love of my family above living for CHRIST then I have not abandoned myself into JESUS and I am still attempting to hold on to the world...

These few words are very challenging and thought provoking, at least for me they have been.
God Bless.
maryjane"

Very good thread, and I appreciate it. Appolus, Very sweet and deep too, TY. As far as THE COST, isn't our cross to die to ourselves, in order to live to Him? This is the CROSS that Jesus commands us to bare; we cannot have both; it is either Him, or ME.

Either we die to ourselves, and the many and varied loves we behold above Jesus, or, we must die to Jesus.

This is at the heart of the scripture : "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

And, for those who believe that this dying is not painful; they have never experienced it, would be the only explanation. There is real "blood, sweat, and tears" in it, in an experiential way.

Let us consider the Apostle Paul, and his path to spiritual VICTORY, in 2 Corinthians 1: James Version (KJV)

Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

...!!!But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead...!!!

Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us."

This MUST be true for every disciple of Jesus, that ever lived or will live. We must deny, or CRUCIFY or affections as paramount; Yes, even to the love of our children, or spouse, or mother or family, all of our possessions and all of our hopes and dreams and future.

[ Even our houses and land?....I still got a mortgage and equity!

.....Paul testifies about suffering this death....

"Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."

This is not just for Great Apostles; it is for every believer that possesses the Holy Spirit within them, and it is a daily manifestation of His possessing of YOU, to assure it. Without this daily and oft painful discipline. YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM!....,and I would question myself as to whether or not you are truly saved, if you do not experience.

Is it painful? It must be, for dying always is.

"And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

We endure the Cross He gives us, and endure the pain of it, in order to achieve unto sonship; to be manifested as a child of God; THERE IS NO OTHER WAY!..and this is on a daily basis.

Yes,. there is joy, but as Jesus our Redeemer, we must:
" Lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

" For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."

There are moments of Joy, for sure, that the redeemed touch now and then, and moments that we must suffer the loss of loves, and affections, that are of Earthly origin. I love my granddaughter very, very, much, but my love of her, and desire to commune with her, certainly is not above my love of Jesus. [ She is all that left in my life , and 2 grand-boys..]

She is on the alter, and I have told her so many times, as is my future, and every thing in it.

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish."

I fail more than I succeed here, and that is within, and sometime without.

BT writes..........

"And, for those who believe that this dying is not painful; they have never experienced it, would be the only explanation. There is real "blood, sweat, and tears" in it, in an experiential way."

Amen BT. Thank you for the scriptures that expound the point. Of course they are too many to mention, but this is the gospel, a gospel of freedom, freedom from worldly concerns and gains. Freedom from fears, freedom from the captivity of fear of death. The gospel truth trancends all worldliness and it is in our narrow, cross bearing journey, the journey of the narrow path that we lay hold of these truths. Let not any man think that he can lay hold of these truths in any other manner than the narrow cross bearing raod that leads to glory. The lie that underlies much of the charimatic movement is that there is some kind of short-cut to sanctification, that one can avoid the pains and sufferings of this world. The brilliant reality is that the joy and the glory of Christ is found, not by avoiding harsh circumstances, but by encountering Christ in the very midst of them and being transcended above the noise. And in all of that is pain and despair and agony, yet the other side of this coin if glory and the beauty of Holiness. The Lord prepares a table before us, not after taking away our enemies, but in the presence of our enemies. Oh how Stephen so beautifully illustrates this. Here is a man about to leave this world prematurely as the world would judge it, having lost everything and now in the midst of dying he has a glorious experience, a vision, even as cruel stones rain down upon his mortal body. Was this natural? Where should joy be in these circumstances? Yet, it was supernatural and the joy was a supernatural joy, not the joy of the world. Here is a quote that I have quoted many times. It is of a martyr, martyed by the Catholic church. At the time of this writing, he had been in a dungeon for three years and had suffered much torture. He would be taken from that place, scalded by boiling water, then burned at the stake. Lsiten to what he found in the depths of this place and marvle and the true joy and glory of God which no man or the devil himself can take.................. bro Frank

To my beloved brethren and fellow servants of Jesus Christ, who have gone out of Babylon unto mount Zion, whose names I do not omit without cause, grace, peace and mercy from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. Amen. In order somewhat to sweeten or take away the pain which you suffer on my account, I would communicate to you the sweetness which I experience, that you may rejoice with me, and shout for joy with thanksgiving in the presence of the Lord.

I will tell to the world an incredible thing, namely, that I have found infinite sweetness in the bowels of the lion. And who will in any wise believe what I am going to relate here? Who can believe it?

In a dark hole I have found pleasure; in a place of bitterness and death, rest and hope of salvation; in the abyss or depths of hell, joy; where others weep, I have laughed; where others fear, I have found strength; who will believe this? In a state of misery I have had very great delight; in a lonely corner I have had most glorious company, and in the severest bond, great rest. All these things, my fellow brethren in Jesus Christ, the gracious hand of God has given me. Behold, He that at first was far from me, is now with me, and Him whom I knew but a little, I now see clearly; to whom I once looked from afar, Him I now behold as present; He for whom I longed, now offers me His hand; He comforts me; He fills me with joy; He drives from me bitterness, and renews within me strength and sweetness; He makes me well; He sustains me; He helps me up; He strengthens me. Oh, how good is the Lord, who does not suffer His servants to be tempted above that they are able I Oh, how easy, pleasant and sweet is His yoke I Is there any like God the Most High, who sustains and refreshes those that are tempted? He heals them that are bruised and wounded, and restores them altogether. Isa. 41; 43:20. None is like Him. Learn, most beloved brethren, how sweet the Lord is, how faithful and merciful; who visits His servants in trial (Isa. 43:2); who humbles Himself and condescends to be with us in our huts and humble abodes. He gives us a cheerful mind and peacef ul heart.

"In a dark hole I have found pleasure; in a place of bitterness and death, rest and hope of salvation; in the abyss or depths of hell, joy; where others weep, I have laughed; where others fear, I have found strength; who will believe this?

In a state of misery I have had very great delight; in a lonely corner I have had most glorious company, and in the severest bond, great rest. All these things, my fellow brethren in Jesus Christ, the gracious hand of God has given me.

Behold, He that at first was far from me, is now with me, and Him whom I knew but a little, I now see clearly; to whom I once looked from afar, Him I now behold as present."

I wept while reading of my brother's testimony. TY for the post.

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Isn't that a big part of HOW we overcome?

Hi BT,

I too have wept at the words of this dear saint for he captures the essence of the Spirit of God, the same Spirit that was in Paul when he was in his own dungeon but singing praises to God and the whole building shook at the presence of God. Here is a link to the rest of the letter which will minister to you.........bro Frank

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2009/04/20/an-unsung-hero-of-the-faith/