its official - Mitt Romney has chosen Paul Ryan

In case anybody is interested. Mit Romney has chosen Paul Ryan to be his running mate. Just heard it on the news.

Bear master.

It is wonderful that we do not have to put our trust and hope in man and crumbling kingdoms of sand. But we have trust in the King of the kingdom of God that is not of this earth. And His love is for His church and the lost souls of the world to be added. Not a country to be favoured as Christian for such religious control of nations is anti-thesis to the Spirit of the New Testament.

Amen Greg, Amen. So right in.

Bearmaster.

Not a country to be favoured as Christian for such religious control of nations is anti-thesis to the Spirit of the New Testament.

What do you exactly mean by this part of your statement Greg?

What do you exactly mean by this part of your statement Greg?

Dear Brother,

I will try and expand my thought for you here:

"Not a country to be favoured as Christian" - Meaning, that God does not use one specific country like Israel in the Old Covenant times. There was a teaching called "british israelism" where England felt they were the modern day Israel because of their great prosperity and influence. During the founding of america there was the same sentiment of america being the "new jerusalem" and the idea of "american israelism" was prevelant for a time also.

This means that people considered american God's special nation in the world where he was blessing more than all the others and where he was operating from to infunence the world. There is some truth in this that God has used America to bless the world but in the day where false gospels, prosperity gospels are abounding, pornography is escalating, the blessing has turned into a curse where this filth is flooding other nations at a unstoppable rate.

"for such religious control of nations is anti-thesis to the Spirit of the New Testament." Secondly, my thought is that the Old Covenant teachings of Scripture have God using one nation to bless the world. And that He wanted to be king of that nation. Thus it being a nation of the people of God. But in the New Covenant he is establishing a kingdom of God, a church where they are from all nations, races, etc. Therefore the earthly countries become irrelevant and people are joined into a kingdom that is not of this world. Thus the goal of true Christianity, new covenant christianity is never to control or influence a nation of this world, all other religions goals are to control people in this way, particularly, islam's main objective is to control a country.

Therefore we can be salt and light to a country and see people come to the Lord, even the president can become a christian yet the nation will never be a "christian nation" in God's eyes. He simply see's His church in that nation of which He is head. It is not bad that a nation can be influenced by Christian morals but we must never fight against flesh and blood and in the end our kingdom is not of this world. These are very important principles that keep us fruitful in God's work of bring souls to His church.

I hope that helps unpack this thought for you brother.

As one who who used to fellowship with David Bercot and also has fellowshiped with mennonites and variants of that I am well aware of the general teaching you are espousing.

I also agree with most of it..to a point.

Thus the goal of true Christianity, new covenant christianity is never to control or influence a nation of this world, all other religions goals are to control people in this way, particularly, islam's main objective is to control a country.

Here I say that this is your "opinion" that we should "never control or influence" and should be seen for that.

(EDIT ADD also this is just my opinion as well. Because neither of us should think more highly of ourselves than we really are.)

Here I would say that we most certainly need to "influence" the nation we live in. We should be influencing it on all levels.

We influence it by being primarily Prophetic.

I do not want to go back and forth on this by posting this. I just wanted a clearer explanation of what you originaly posted.

Thanks and God bless.

Here I say that this is your "opinion" that we should "never control or influence" and should be seen for that.

Brother,

I should have chosen a better word. By "influence" I meant the church is not to control or politically influence the country. By our godliness and prayers we bring change and influence but our goal is not the betterment of the country but for souls to come to Christ.

Also for saints to vote or have a government job is not a bad thing as long as they just consider it a job and not the work of the kingdom to take over the country for God.

In my view there is simply no bible verse in the New Testament that speaks at all about nations being Christian and for us to desire to see this happen. Thus we should be content with the words of our Lord when before pilate he said:

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." (John 18:36)

But hos are we to influence the nation. If we are talking Gospel kingdom influence. That us bringing souls to Christ, I would be in agreement. But if we are talking about, asmany American evangelicals advocate. Subverting culture for Christ I would disagree. There is no New Testament warrant for such a thing. Our calling is to preach the gospel that transforms lives. Not to redeem culture.

I go back to my mantra. Christ did not come to redeem cultures. But to redeem souls.

Bearmaster.