Need help with bible verses on testing/trials

L

learn Aug 18, 2012

Many of you will have better bible knowledge than me. I need bible verses on testing/trials. (you can exclude Jacob and the testing of Peter which denied Christ). Thanks.

The ones I can think of are :

1) Abraham being promised a son which was only fulfilled years later and later Abraham sacrificing Isaac

2) Exodus--Israel wondering in the desert for 40 years before reaching the promise land

3) Joseph having the dream where his brothers and father bowing down to him and this only fulfilled many years later after imprisonment etc

ETA
4) Job

sermonindex Aug 18, 2012

Dear Learn,

Well, we are all still learning from God's word. It is the main textbook in the school of the Holy Spirit.

Rather than answering each question specifically as they relate to prophetic types and shadows, I would like to encourage you in the spiritual significance of the stories that you referenced, as they relate to our lives today.

Of course, you are probably well aware that the Holy Spirit must illuminate the scriptures to us. But in the case of your three questions in particular, it seems that you are asking about why God took such a long time getting around to fulfilling His promises. I'll give just two reasons, and maybe somebody else wants to add to them.

1. Throughout the Old Covenant, God was revealing types and shadows of the true, who is Jesus Christ. The timing for God to fulfill His promises were just as important as the promises. Every detail revealed something, and timing was no exception.

2. Not only was timing important to fill all the details for bringing about God's promises, but also waiting on God seems to be the ultimate test for the hearts of His people.

A. When Abram and Sara grew tired of waiting on God, "Sara thought." (Gen. 16) Their lack of patience on supernatural God led them to natural thinking, and that produced a natural enemy of God's promised seed that continues to bite at their heels to this very day.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE TURNED TO NATURAL THINKING RATHER THAN WAITING ON SUPERNATURAL GOD? OH, HOW MANY ISHMAEL'S HAVE WE CREATED IN THE TENTS OF HAGAR? HOW MUCH DAMAGE HAVE THEY DONE? OH, LORD TEACH US TO WAIT!

B. When the sun bore down hard over the course of time... days, weeks, months, and years in the desert - the hearts of God's people were tested. Many of them complained and were destroyed there. They wanted to either go back to Egypt, or to form another god who would not hold them accountable for their actions. Then they could fulfill their own pleasures. Ultimately, it was through that testing time that God sifted the crowd down to only those who "believed."

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE BEEN DISQUALIFIED FROM SOMETHING GOD HAS CALLED US TO DO, ALL BECAUSE WE WERE TOO LAZY AND SPOILED TO "FORSAKE THE PLEASURES" OF THIS WORLD IN ORDER TO MAKE THE LONG, DIFFICULT JOURNEY WITH GOD? OH, LORD! HELP US TO CAST ASIDE OUR PLEASURES NOW SO THAT WE ARE WILLING TO GO THROUGH THE DESERT AHEAD.

C. As for Joseph, the years between his dream and the fulfillment were many and long, for sure. Throughout those years, however, God's work in the hearts of His people was done. Joseph had many years to humble himself so that he would be of the right spirit to serve God well when famine came; and His proud brothers had years to recognize that their strength and pride would not provide for them when God Himself cut them off. God also corrected their attitude toward their younger brother, who they hated.

HOW LONG MUST WE ENDUE TRIALS LIKE JOSEPH DID IN ORDER TO READY US IN HUMILITY TO SERVE GOD TO THE FULLEST? OR HOW LONG MUST WE BE ALLOWED TO RUN LIKE A WILD ANIMAL IN OUR OWN PRIDE BEFORE WE HUMBLE OURSELVES TO BOW BEFORE GOD FOR HIS AID IN THE TIME WHEN HE BRINGS THE WHOLE WORLD TO A PLACE OF GREAT NEED?

Brothers and sisters! Let us not keep rushing God. A thousand years is as one day to the Lord (II Peter 3:8) Just look at all God does in us and through us when we are put in a position to wait on Him; and yet His timing is perfect. It is an essential part of fulfilling His whole will.

L

lindi1208 Aug 18, 2012

Hi Learn

I have often found these bible verses encouraging when going through trials!

John 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James1:2-4

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

1Tess3:3

That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

2Tim 3:12

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution

1Peter 2: 21

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps

1Peter 4:12-14

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified

1Peter 5:9

Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Rev 1:9

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Love in Christ

sermonindex Aug 18, 2012

Dear Brother,

We pray and trust that the Lord will sustain you and give you peace and patience, and wisdom in trial. Notice what Peter wrote to you about trials of your faith.

"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" I Peter 1:5-7

I am sure that everyone on this blog, and every believer in the world could share about their times of great trials. All of us must experience them (Heb. 12) I know that I could write a small volume of books on mine, yet they have been few compared to many other believers; and as painful as they have been, I praise the Lord for each one of them.

1. I worked for 20 years, much of that time with my own small businesses, miserable and weary from day to day as I was neglecting God's call on my life. I went to bed weeping many nights. I loved and honored the Lord but was not following His call completely. The Lord delivered me when I decided to do His bidding, His way.
2. My wife and I raised a family by the grace of God, while working like a fish out of water for many of those years, suffering many daily trials; but God was at work and He sustained us.
3. We continued through many, many hard trials of faith as we transitioned from the secular business arena to full-time ministry; but the Lord was guiding us.
4. We moved to a foreign country by faith, with about $100 to our name... not knowing the language of that country, a single person in that country, no place to live and no place to go; and the Lord guided us by His right hand. He showed Himself mighty as we daily depended upon Him (just like we do today).
5. He has aided us through great difficulties to put our three children through college and also, He held each of them in the palm of His hand - each one encountering his own set of trials of faith. He was and is so faithful.

You are not alone in trials, brother. All of us would bear your burden if we could; but we know that He will sustain you as you seek to trust Him with all your heart.

Yes. I am a privileged lot. "The Lord is the portion of my inheritance." (Psalms 16:5) But while I have been spared tragedies that many believers have suffered, I have had to depend on Him through many hours, many nights, for many years weeping before Him in my closet, both while in the ministry as well as when in business... waking the next morning only to find myself back in the world that I despised with all that was within me. Only the goodness and grace of God sustained me until I began to actually grow as a result of those chastening trials for my good and His glory.

He WILL sustain you if you will trust Him completely and keep your "mind stayed on Thee." (Isaiah 26:3)

"Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the LORD." Psalm 31:24

L

lindi1208 Aug 18, 2012

Blessings to you in Christ

Amen Proclaimit ! Trials and suffering bring about patience and long suffering in the believer! It is the testing of our faith! The word says if we endure we will come forth as gold purified by fire Hallelujah!

Here is another verse on the blessing of suffering

1 Peter 3:14

But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Love in Christ

L

learn Aug 18, 2012

Thank you all (lindi and proclaimit). Your posts mean a lot to me and lindi I was crying and groaning in the spirit when reading those verses.

[by proclaimit
Of course, you are probably well aware that the Holy Spirit must illuminate the scriptures to us. But in the case of your three questions in particular, it seems that you are asking about why God took such a long time getting around to fulfilling His promises]

Actually this is not my question but I really appreciate all you have written.

I'm just trying to understand what I'm going through so that I can make sense of what is happening and deal with it in the right manner and avoid as much pain as possible and doing GOd's will.

BTW, am a sister
Post edited.

sermonindex Aug 18, 2012

@Proclaimit

Totally off track/topic here, but what country did you move to?

E

Earendel Aug 18, 2012

Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%204:12-19&version=NKJV

see

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+13%3A9&version=NKJV

see

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi%203:3&version=NKJV

also see chastening

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb%2012:3-11&version=NKJV

T

twayneb Aug 18, 2012

learn: I can help a little in an area I have really studied, and probably very little in the others. It would be a pretty in depth study, and I suggest that you read all of the New Testament referenced to Abraham as a commentary on the Old Testament event. I will summarize.

Abraham made covenant with God. Remember God's promises to Abraham and the incident where Abraham was commanded to lay out the animals and the Lord appeared as a smoking lamp passing among the pieces. Covenant in the OT is a really big deal. If we were in covenant, and if I was willing to sacrifice my dearest possession for you, by covenant now you are bound to do the same thing.

In the NT we see that Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Christ, and he saw it, and was glad. We see that by faith Abraham offered Issac, accounting that God was able to raise him even from the dead. Remember that until Abraham's day, no man is ever recorded as having been raised from the dead. How did Abraham come up with the idea that Isaac was going to be raised from the dead? Why would he believe God for that?

We might say that it was because of the promise that in Isaac his seed would arise. Abraham believed God, and if Isaac were killed before the promise was fulfilled, then God would have to do something in order to resurrect Isaac. The other element could very will be that God revealed to Abraham that his seed would be Christ, and that Christ would be raised from the dead. Remember, Abraham and God are in covenant.

The fact that Isaac is willing to offer his only son as a sacrifice is significant. (But Isaac was not his only son. However the NT calls Isaac Abraham's only son. Heb. 11:17) When God tested Abraham, He said in effect, "We are in covenant. Are you willing to offer your only begotten son for Me? If so, then I am obligated to offer My only begotten son for you Abraham, and through My sacrifice all nations of the earth will be blessed."

You might even say that God established covenant with Abraham and tested that covenant with Isaac in order to provide Himself legal right and obligation to offer His own son as a sacrifice for sin.

One might argue that God had that authority already. He is God right? But He is truth and His word is truth. He had given man authority over the earth (Psalm 8 and Hebrews 2 et. al.). Man had been deceived into giving it to Satan. Since by man came sin, by man forgiveness of sin must also come (1 Cor. 15:21). But a sinful man could not atone for a sinful man. Only God in His perfection could atone. So God entered the scene through covenant to do as a man what only God could do.

So Abraham's test was not about God testing man to bring about a redemptive purpose in an individual. It was about God asking man to keep covenant even to the offering of his son so that He might bring about the redemption of all mankind through His own obligation to keep covenant. In the NT we find that Abraham entered into this sacrifice with full confidence, not in agony as many have assumed.

I

IssacharSon Aug 18, 2012

Saints,

What an essential topic! Currently, I'm reading a sermon by Spurgeon called "God's People in the Furnace" which may be of some benefit to this topic.

As briefly as I can - Spurgeon outlines the following proofs and reasons why Christians are destined to undergo perpetual trials in this world (which he refers to as the "furnace"):

(A) THE STAMP OF THE COVENANT: Suffering and trials are the "stamp of the Covenant" described in Genesis 15:17. When Abraham was lying down at night, a horror of darkness came upon him "behold a smoking furnace and a burning lamp that passed between the pieces. On that day the Lord made a Covenant with Abram, saying..." (Genesis 15:17-18). Spurgeon interprets this passage as illustrating two "stamps" which made the Covenant secure - "a burning lamp" - the light for God's people, light for their darkness, light to guide them all the way to Heaven. And beside the lamp - "a smoking furnace" - where God's people dwell as they suffer persecution for righteousness' sake.

(B) ALL PRECIOUS THINGS HAVE TO BE TRIED: The diamond must be cut. Gold cannot be used as it is dug up from the mine, or in grains as it is found in the rivers. Gold, too, must be tried and pass through the crucible and have the dross taken away. Silver must be tried, too. See Proverbs 17:3 - "The fining pot is for silver and the furnace for gold". Spurgeon observes that the very Law of Nature is also a Law of Grace, which requires that all things which are of any value must endure the fire. He references Numbers 31:23 which says that "Everything that may abide the fire, you shall make go through the fire and it shall be clean."

(C) THE CHRISTIAN IS SAID TO BE A SACRIFICE TO GOD: Remember the Laws regarding sacrifice in Leviticus 1:3 through Leviticus 7:38? The Levi priests killed the bullock and laid it on the altar, but it was no sacrifice until the burning process was completed. The burnt offering was to be "without defect" (Leviticus 1:3, 10), foreshadowing the perfect sacrifice of Christ, "a lamb without blemish or defect" (1 Peter 1:19). In
Romans 12:1, Paul says, “I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.” But how could we be a sacrifice if we were not burned. Spurgeon preaches that "If we never had the fire of trouble(s) put about us, if we never were kindled - we would lie there without smoke, without flame, unacceptable to God!".

(D) CHRISTIANS SUFFER UNTO CHRIST-LIKENESS: Spurgeon reminds us of the beautiful description of Jesus Christ in the Book of Revelation where it says "His feet were like fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace". The feet of Jesus represent His humanity. How can we be like Christ, unless our feet, too, are burned in the furnace? He walks through the flames before us and with us so that "in all things He might be like unto His brethren".

I've posted a link to this sermon text below. I hope that it will help as an encouragement to the saints.

Spurgeon's Sermon: "God's People in the Furnace"
DATE: August 12th, 1855
URL LINK: http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/0035.htm

Love-in-Christ,

KP

L

learn Aug 19, 2012

Thank you all.

Proclaimit,
How do you know what God's calling was. God has been inflicting me with all sorts of spiritual pain (from loneliness to fear to pain to anxiety to dread etc). Currently He is inflicting me with loneliness. From my experiences with the different spiritual pains, if I'm able to get what He wants me to do, the pain or loneliness or fear etc will go away. But at times He just wants me to experience all these pains (and I think 1 of the reason is to make me stronger and less afraid as I realise that some words in the bible which I have been deathly afraid of, I am not so afraid anymore). He's not making it clear what exactly I'm to do and its horrible as I just want the 'pain' to go away.

I really want to stamp my feet and throw a tantrum but this isn't what God wants us to do and I'm also afraid of offending Him. I don't want Him to leave me. He says to be patient in affliction. Ultimately I will cry and groan and have a bit of release but its not the full release. I have a ton of things that I should be doing but God does not seem to care that I have to get it done except for the most basic bare bone necessities. He seems more concerned that I go through this 'pain' and figure out what He wants me to do or to just bear with it stoically.

I'm sorry for the vent and hopefully you all understand

sermonindex Aug 19, 2012

Argentina - 1997

sermonindex Aug 19, 2012

Dear one,

I would like to begin by saying that God makes His desires known. He does not give all the details, nevertheless, He does make His will known to His people - both individually and corporately. The Bible record proves this time and again.

God told Adam and Eve, not to eat of a specific tree in the garden. God told them to multiply and fill the earth. God instructed Cain and Able how to sacrifice. God walked with Enoch and no doubt He communicated His will to him. God told Noah to build an ark, and even how to down to the last measure. He told him when to close the door. God told Noah to multiply and to replenish the earth. God told Abram to leave his own country and kin, and to go to the land of promise... and on, and on. Then at the very end of the Old Covenant period God told Zachariahs that Elisabeth would have a son and that his name would be "John." God told Mary that she would bear a Son through whom salvation to mankind would come. God told Joseph through a dream to marry Mary and to take her to Bethlehem, where she would ultimately give birth. God spoke clearly to His Son Jesus Christ, and our Lord made ever-so-clear that He did ONLY what the Father told Him to do, and that He said ONLY what the Father told Him to say. Jesus told His disciples to go wait in an upper room until the Promise of the Father would come... and on, and on. Then with the apostles and other New Testament believers God inspired and anointed Peter to preach in the first open-air gospel message. Later God spoke through Stephen in the first very specific, open-air rebuke of religious leaders for their rejection of God's Spirit after the Spirit had been poured out. God spoke to Phillip through an angel that he should "go south." God spoke to Paul and called him "to be an apostle to the Gentiles," and Peter to be an apostle to "the Jews." The Spirit continued to speak and God spoke through angels and through the members of His body then... and He still does today. He was not a deaf and dumb God then and He is not now.

The short answer to your valid question brother, that we have all asked at some time or another throughout the centuries of Christianity is - that God will tell you His will to a certain degree and as you walk out what you do know He will reveal more. Suddenly at some point along the way you will understand where He was taking you all along.

God speaks to His people. The problem is that our listening is distorted by a number of things. One, we may not think that God still speaks so we don't know to listen. Two, we believe so many things wrongly about God that we are confused in our heads about what He might be saying concerning His will for us. Third, we are not accustomed to hearing His voice so when He speaks we are unsure whether it is really Him or not.

Finally, for real-life illustrations to accompany this brief answer on such an important subject. The Spirit of the Lord told me to go south one time. I got on an airplane and went south. He unfolded our ministry call from there. He spoke to me ten thousand times from there and still does. He spoke to me one time to get on a plane and to fly west a thousand miles to a strange city and that He had an appointment for me there. I did, and He did. He spoke to me to go to the Middle East and I sat waiting until two weeks later He gave me tickets to fly there. From there he opened up that part of the world. He spoke to me to get in my car and to drive west and I did. I had a tank of gas and two hundred dollar, and my wife with me. We went as far as you can go west in a car and returned several weeks later with more than five thousand dollars and after having ministered the word of God strategically in many places. I knew no one west of Dallas, TX at the time and had only one contact going west who was not even present when I arrived. The Lord did it all. Through my positive response to His simple command for that single illustration, I ministered to hundreds of thousands of believers, producing much fruit without the slightest bit of striving for the next several years.

I could tell story, and story, after story, after miracle, after miracle. This is not because I am anything but saved by His grace and like everyone else who is saved, I am called to do His will and He fulfills His responsibility to tell us what His will is. I have learned to hear His voice through His grace given to me by abiding in His word, abiding in prayer, and by honestly desiring to do His will.

You can too, brother and sister. You can too.

B

Beige Aug 20, 2012

Proclaimant,

Please tell us your story of what happened when you got to Argentina? How did God move in your behalf? How did you connect and make a living? I am considering leaving the USA also!

L

learn Aug 20, 2012

Thanks proclaimit.

Just want to apologize for my last post. When I read it, I feel embarassed for myself. Certainly have not handled the situation so far well or in the proper attitude. Hopefully will handle it better next time. At least out of all things, this I believe is what God wants me to do.

Proclaimit, I'm a sister.