1 John 1:8 Refers to ongoing sin?

Hi Noahjd
Does a Christian have to sin ??

what does your pastor say about 1 John ch 3 ??

John is writing these things so that we do not sin yet if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

NoahJD wrote //a man who said he attained it, and lived it so.//
Red flags would go off in my head to anyone whom made a statement like this,not because I think it is impossable to Live momment by momment in victory but because the Bible clearly says "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

1 John
//8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.//

so whom is John speaking hear to?? He seems to be answering the self righteous mind set that would deny the personal need for the //blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin// of verse 7

We are not accepted because of our own righteousness but our acceptance of his cleansing will produce righteousness in our lives

Friend,

John was writing against the teachings of Gnosticism that claimd that Christ did not come in the flesh. He warned the Christians not to greet such people or mix with them.
Apparently they were mixing with them and beginning to believe what they taught.

But that would lead them to depart from the gospel truth that Christ came to save sinners, because the gnostics believed that Christ did not come in the flesh. They believed if Christ is diety, He could not possibly come in human flesh because they believed in two separate realities that could not mix, the spiritual world which is pure and the physical world which is defiled.

That belief lead them to reason that if Christ had come in the flesh, if follows that He became defiled.

Christ to a gnostic is merely a man that can be exemplified.

That in turn lead them to believe that man did not need a savior but can through self dicipline achieve God's righteousness on his own.

But what about original sin, they believed that every man was born sinless.( notice that this is different from Palaginism that taught that man was born sinless but every man ends up sinning because Adam brought sin to the world, therefore man needs Christ not for possessional original sin we are born with but for sins we commit)

You could see the heretical teaching in Gosticism.

Therefore, John had to write to the Chritians not to mix with any one who teaches these things for fear they would begin to be influenced by these heretical teachings.

Therefore he had to write to them to remind them that If we say that we have no sin (past sin of our own), we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us, because it will follow that we will have no need for Christ's atoneing work.

Note that John did not sat: If we say we do not sin any more we are liars but if we say we have no sin.

Hope this help.
God bless.

Noah,

Gnosticism, as any belief system will vary in form as the individual does. Just as there no two Calvinist are exactly the same, no two Mormons and so forth.

But all Gonstic teachings added up to the same conclusion, and that is there is no need for the atoneing work of Christ, no need for God's help by the holy Spirit to acheive God's likeness and satisfy His righteousness.
Christ did not come in the flesh, did not die for man.

That is the way of Satan to undo the work of God.
And that is why John wrote to the Chritians in Rome not to associate with such.
If we say we have no sin we say there is no need for Christ to atone for it and cleanse from it.

Salvation as John taught it.
Justification: the cleansing of past sins as we have never sinned. We become as white as snow as the blood of Christ cleanses from all sin.
Sanctification: the continued work of the blood of Christ and abiding of the holy Spirit in the believer keeps them contiuallly washed and cleansed by being ever under the fountain of the blood.

If the believer fails to be ever under the fountain and commits sin amd comes to god with remorse and repentant heart, God will pardon, grantes the believer does not presume on God and thinks the blood of Christ cheap to trample under foot.

He wrote to us that we sin not, but if we having the mind and determination to sin not, do sin from time to time God is faithful and just to cintinue to cleanse us.

Philippians 3:9 I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ’s faithfulness – a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ’s faithfulness. 3:10 My aim is to know him, to experience the power of his resurrection, to share in his sufferings, and to be like him in his death, 3:11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. 3:12 Not that I have already attained this – that is, I have not already been perfected – but I strive to lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus also laid hold of me. 3:13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself to have attained this. Instead I am single-minded: Forgetting the things that are behind and reaching out for the things that are ahead, 3:14 with this goal in mind, I strive toward the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 3:15 Therefore let those of us who are “perfect” embrace this point of view. If you think otherwise, God will reveal to you the error of your ways. 3:16 Nevertheless, let us live up to the standard that we have already attained.

Paul speaks to not attaining perfection until the resurection. Even speaking to those who would see themselves as perfected before the resurection as being in error and if they believe themselves perfect, God who is perfect, will make clear to them through their imperfections as the very evidence.

I fear the thought of those who believe in a perfection this side of the Kingdom. It would propose a temporary Savior, Advocate, and High priest. I think there is much to be said for the mature fruit and sanctification of the saint, but If there is anything I have learned in my few years of salvation it is that man desperately needs a Savior on whom he can depend.

There are two kinds of Sins in our life. Conscious and unconscious sin. Conscious sins are the one that you are aware of, for example lust of eye etc. Unconscious sins are those that you are not aware of but are still in you. For example you entertaining a lustful thought in your mind on a women not married to you is also sin which you might not be aware of. Now if you overcome lusting of eyes does not mean you have overcome all sins in your life you still have these unconscious sins in your life. We always need the blood of the lamb to cleanse us from these unconscious sins. This is what John meant when he said if we claim to be sinless then we are liars, because we might have unconscious sins in our life.

With respect to conscious sins, we should never commit them again. Committing conscious sin again and again is compared in bible to a dog returning to its vomit and licking them. John definitely did not say that Christians will the same job of this Dog. Hence saying that we will always stumble in our life is totally heretic and such a person is not even a believer in Christ because he does not believe in very first promise of New covenant that Jesus will save his people from sin (Matthew 1-20).

When you progress in your christian life God will bring these unconscious sins into light gradually. Christian walk is never ending you keep walking like this each and everyday. That is why Paul said that he has not attained perfection yet but he is walking towards it.

The man of God whom you are referring here did not mean that he has become perfect, he only meant that he is not behaving like a Dog returning to its vomit. I believe everyone can live a life without stumbling or falling and that is what Bible says.

2 Peter 1 -10:-Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble

Where is perfection? Only one place, "IN CHRIST".

This is where we must let the Word of God divide asunder the soul and spirit. The soul is not perfect, but the spirit is because "His Seed remaineth in us". Christ is perfect making the rebirthed Spirit of Christ in us perfect, which is renewing my mind to the Mind of Christ, and some day my soul will become as perfected as God intends it to be. The body will also loose the flesh and our new body like Christ will attain to the perfection God intended it to be before the fall in the garden.

So we are perfect, we are being perfected and we will be perfected. Spirit, Soul and Body, finally complete as God intended before the foundation of the world.

This being the penicle of Gods whole plan in Christ, to make sons' for the Fathers House.

Ephesians 1:2-13 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

If we believed nothing else except Eph 1 we whould have all God intends for the offspring of God our Father.

NO! I am not leaving behind the rest of God's Word.

Study Eph 1 and see if all is not expounded upon. Perfected and witnessed by the rest of Gods Word.

In Christ: Phillip

brother sree ,i do believe you are mistaken

;lustfull thoughts towards a woman whom you are not married to are concence sins,,these things never come to mind with us being unconcence of them ,,these are tepmtations ,and if we dwel on them .or enatain them with the second thought ,we sin in thoughts

brother if you look closly ,the contex of a dog returing to to it vomit ,or a pig having washed ,returing again to the mud wallow ,,,it is not directly speaking about a concence sin ,,but of an apostasy
if after the have escaped the courptions of the world through the knowlage of our lord and saviour

they are againg entangglefd and OVER COME

CHAPTER 2 OF PETER ,,decribes these apostat teachers and there students as acursed children , who have forsake the right way ,following the way of balam

it says there are presumtous ,and self willed

these vovit eating dogs ,are like natural brut beasst made to be caught and destroyed

it says they canot cease from practicing sin

wich shows there was no repentance in them
these john refured to as of the devil ,for the devil sinned from the beginning

these sows have eyes full of adultry

these are wellls that have no water

there objective is to fulfill satans will ,by bringing there heares in to compleat bondage , being totaly over come

this chapter goes beoned a christan falling into a sin ,or even back sliding for a time,,,but a falling away

please brother dont refure to a weak or waywoukld brother as a dog or a pig

and regard to stumbling,the flip side of the scripual coin ,is that scripture also says

that we all do stumble in in many things james 3

no man can tame the toung ,,those these thing ought not be

we see scripual evendence of peter falling in to hertical behaviour with hipocracy regaring his calling as a teacher

we see sharp desention among the apostals,,but there were never dogs returing to vomit

some of the greastes preachers like whitfied and spurgen ,edwards ,many others were concence of sin every day , yet were some of the most holy saints scince the apostals

weasly said that about whitfield ,,that we should drink of his spirit ,,and that he was one of the most emeniant saints ,tho weasly believed in a type of perfectionism ,, whitfield believe he was a sinner saved by grace ,a chief of sinners ,,whitfiel believd that not one day would go by that he did not sin ,,tho i asume it was not willful sin ,,,,its not i who does this but sin that dwels in me

even poonan never said a bad word about whitfield and edwards ,

we should be slow brother to judge those who say they sin every day as not christan ,when some of our mentors and spitual fathers loved and honered those who claimed a depraved state

none of us love and honer the father and the son the way they deseve to be nor give them praise they deserve or the worship ,,,i will always be concence of that till i sleap ,,,,i hope we all will brother

in that alone i commit sin every day ,,god deserves more then i could ever give

for me only christ loved god they way god should be loved

and this righteousness was imputed to me by grace through faith,,this is the reason that i am accounted righteous

blessings

Noah wrote: """So we are perfect, we are being perfected and we will be perfected." """

We are perfect by the Spirit of Christ that has been born again in us, the incorruptable Seed of Jesus Christ the Living Word.

We are becoming perfect by the renewing of our minds to the mind of Christ daily by the Holy Spirit Teacher of Christ in you the hope of Glory.

We will be perfect in body when we loose the life of the flesh which is the blood which cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and we will have a perfect body like the Body of Jesus Christ resurrected and seated in the heavenlies with the Father where we are already in spirit, by His Spirit that dwells in us.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 2:5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Who is the living Word?
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Christ: Phillip

;lustfull thoughts towards a woman whom you are not married to are concence sins,,these things never come to mind with us being unconcence of them ,,these are tepmtations ,and if we dwel on them .or enatain them with the second thought ,we sin in thoughts

In my previous post I made it clear that 'if we ENTERTAIN the lustful thought'. I cannot control thoughts flying in my mind but I can control entertaining them. For example when someone rebukes me, I might get a thought of killing him, but I can stop entertaining it the moment this thought tries to enter me. I think it was Luther who said, you cannot stop birds flying over your head but you can prevent them from building a nest.

Anyways, I gave it only as an example of unconscious sin. There are many such things which a Christian will have and come to know by getting a fresh revelation of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3-18:-But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

This is new covenant life in which we are transformed into image of Christ from one glory to another. If we keep committing same sin again and again then where is this glory? It only means the glory is getting faded like how Moses face faded in Old Covenant.

I don't care who preached what, I made my point clear. Let God alone be true and every man a liar.