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THE EXCUSES OF SINNERS

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proudpapa Aug 20, 2012

Excerpts from Charles G. Finney's Sermon
THE EXCUSES OF SINNERS
Men plead a sinful nature for their excuse. And pray, what is this sinful nature? Do you mean by it that every faculty and even the very essence of your constitution were poisoned and made sinful in Adam, and came down in this polluted state by inheritance to you? Do you mean that you were so born in sin that the substance of your being is all saturated with it, and so that all the faculties of your constitution are themselves sin? Do you believe this?
I admit if this were true, it would make out a hard case. A hard case indeed! Until the laws of my reason are changed, it would compel me to speak out openly and say--Lord, this is a hard case, that Thou shouldst make my nature itself a sinner, and then charge the guilt of its sin upon me! I could not help saying this; the deep echoings of my inner being would proclaim it without ceasing, and the breaking of ten thousand thunderbolts over my head would not deter me from thinking and saying so. The reason God has given me would forever affirm it.

But the dogma is an utter absurdity. For, pray, what is sin? God answers--"transgression of law." And now you hold that your nature is itself a breach of the law of God--nay, that it has always been a breach of God's law, from Adam to the day of your birth; you hold that the current of this sin came down in the veins and blood of your race--and who made it so? Who created the veins and blood of man? From whose hand sprang this physical constitution and this mental constitution? Was man his own creator? Did sin do a part of the work in creating your physical and your mental constitution? Do you believe any such thing? No; you ascribe your nature and its original faculties to God, and upon Him, therefore, you charge the guilty authorship of your "sinful nature."

But how strange a thing is this! If man is in fault for his sinful nature, why not condemn man for having blue or black eyes? The fact is, sin never can consist in having a nature, nor in what nature is; but only and alone in the bad use which we make of our nature. This is all. Our Maker will never find fault with us for what He has Himself done or made; certainly not. He will not condemn us, if we will only make a right use of our powers--of our intellect, our sensibility, and our will. He never holds us responsible for our original nature. If you will observe, you will find that God has given no law prescribing what sort of nature and constitutional powers we should have. He has given no law on these points, the transgression of which, if given, might somewhat resemble the definition of sin. But now since there is no law about nature, nature cannot be a transgression.

Here let me say, that if God were to make a law prescribing what nature or constitution a man must have, it could not possibly be otherwise than unjust and absurd, for the reason that man's nature is not a proper subject for legislation, precept, and penalty, inasmuch as it lies entirely without the pale of voluntary action, or of any action of man at all. And yet thousands of men have held the dogma that sin consists in great part in having a sinful nature. Yes, through long ages of past history, grave theologians have gravely taught this monstrous dogma; it has resounded from pulpits, and has been stereotyped for the press, and men have seemed to be never weary of glorifying this dogma as the surest test of sound orthodoxy! Orthodoxy!! There never was a more infamous libel on Jehovah! It would be hard to name another dogma which more violently outrages common sense. It is nonsense--absurd and utter NONSENSE! I would to God that it were not even worse than nonsense! Think what mischief it has wrought! Think how it has scandalized the law, the government, and the character of God! Think how it has filled the mouths of sinners with excuses from the day of its birth to this hour!

Now I do not mean to imply that the men who have held this dogma have intelligently insulted God with it. I do not imply that they have been aware of the impious and even blasphemous bearings of this dogma upon Jehovah;--I am happy to think that some at least have done all this mischief ignorantly. But the blunder and the mischief have been none the less for the honest ignorance in which they were done.

http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbs23.htm

L
lylewise Aug 21, 2012

No one can write off their decision on that which was passed down from Adam. It is absurd to think that the choice to sin or not sin is not ours. It would seem reasonable to say A&E did not know sin until they partook of it, but once they had, even their children, including the baby in Jesse's wife's womb would bear the corruption of his greatest relatives who began all men's family tree. Men seem obsessed with the concept of freedom and maybe we expect it more in the US. I can't honestly say that I don't look into this notion of fairness but I have to regard what scripture says about God the Creator. I also have to be very careful about placing trust in the flesh that examines the ways of God. Who can Understand or question Him? To know what He has determined and be uncomfortable with it (and most are in some area or another if they be honest) should cause great reservation in us regarding our own reason and logic.

I must plead guilty of buying into this Dogma as it is being called. I do believe in great freedoms God has allowed us. I also believe we will all be without excuse before Him. If my understanding of this is considered a blaspheme against God, then I am secure in His ability to look through me as no one can and judge rightly my ignorance.

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proudpapa Aug 21, 2012

We must agree that there are Men of equal intellect and even of equal Spirtual insight that both agree and disagree on Augustines concept of Original sin.

Myself having personally been brought up into this Augustinian dogma relize what Finney in this Excerpt is refering to.

Many use the excuse that we all sin or that we have a sinful nature to excuse there lives of sin, and they also many times use a misinterpetation of Romans 7 to justify there sin

So rather one disagrees or agrees with this dogma, we all should be all able to agree that Finney is correct in that sinners do often times use the excuse of having original sin or a sinful nature for a continued lifestyle of sin.

J
jimp Aug 21, 2012

hi,in the old covenant , alamb was brought before the high priest and was inspected thoroughly to make sure it was perfect as possible for to be sacrificed. they did not inspect the people.it is the same in the new... Jesus was the perfect sacrifice for a sin sick world. you must love Him and what He did for you enough to give Him the rule and reign in your life.looking at sin does very little to help anyone but looking unto Jesus bleeding and dieing for you as an individual daily will change your life. all the talk about sin is a waste of time. it is all about Jesus and the cross. He will set you free.jimp

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

What Jesus sets free from is sin according to Matthew 1:21. The focus should be laying hold of Jesus and knowing and learning of him- yet to let Jesus rule and reign over us and be our Saving King we must depart from iniquity. Many want Jesus to save them from the penalty and consequences of sin and not sin itself. To have Jesus we can't excuse or justify our sin and that's what's being dealt with here. Holding onto transgression against God is an obstacle to saving faith in Jesus Christ and this obstacle must be exposed and cast away ruthlessly without any sparing of it under any guise, the excuse of original sin included. This is essentially the function of the message of John the Baptist "repent" "prepare the way of the Lord" which is the beginning of the gospel (Mark 1:1-4) and which all must believe in Christ through (edit- John 1:7). This was reiterated by Jesus himself in saying that we must cast away sin at any cost, illustrated by the loss of any eye, hand, or foot in order to have life and escape the fire of hell (Mark 9:42-48). In the words of Jesus and the Apostles departing from iniquity is a condition to saving faith and love for Jesus.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:17-20)

" Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2:19)

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13)

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matthew 24:11-13)

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012


Excellent post!

J
jimp Aug 21, 2012

hi, Jesus died on that bloody cross and took away my sins... past present and future. He is my mercyseat (propitiation)He ever lives sitting at the right hand of the Father interceding for me.i am crucified with Christ... i am buried with Him...baptized in His death and like Christ ... i am raised with Him to walk in newness of life.. sin hath no more dominion over me for i am dead and the wrath(puishment ) has been poured out on Jesus at the cross.i look unto Jesus the author and finisher of my faith. i do not give sin a glance(lest i covet the law). either you are saved by grace or by the law(that leven that leveneth the whole lump)jimp

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

Hi jimp,

Being raised alive with Christ so sin no more has dominion you is no doubt the purpose of faith in Christ and the true grace of God according to Romans 6. The issue is that there are warnings given to all, even to Christians, by the Apostles that talk about sin and warn about its end when it is not forsaken or is returned to. The preaching of Jesus' work on the cross and of grace doesn't negate these warnings. God included them in the New Testament so we need to receive them at face-value and talk about them to the same extent the Apostles did. I hope you'll conclude that's a fair statement. The Apostles who were inspired by the same Spirit that inspired Jesus to say 'It is finished" saw no contradiction in giving the warnings they gave (which no doubt echoed the warnings of John the Baptist and Jesus).

Galatians 5;19-21- "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Paul warned Christians of this truth continually!)

Hebrews 3:12-14- " Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end"

Hebrews 10:26-31- " For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

B
brothagary Aug 21, 2012

haw can carnal men who are sons of adam , who bore the image of the man of dust as paul said ,,stop sinning with out being born again

god needs to first put his spirit in the this fallen man ,and take out his old heart and replace it and wright his laws on this heart

the carnal min is enmity against god ,and is not sunject to the law of god

how can the sons of adam make there own mind and heart spirtual with out the new birth ?????

untill one is born from above from imcoruptable seed by the word of god wich livith and abides forever ,,he is a sinner to the core ,he is a sinner in hiscarnal mind

or does the scripture say in vain ,that the spirit that dwels in hims lusts for jelousy , james said it


all the sons of adam are sinners in spirit mind and body

what is not of faith is sin

and all that the sons of adam do is sin for he does nothing through faith for the glory of god , but all for him self and for others like him , he is at emity with god ,being in frinship with the world ,constatuting him self an enemy of god

but as paul said about the jews ,,perhaps god will grant him repentence

adams sons could not chosses not to sin for his carnal mind controls him and his emotions lure him in a vichious deathly circal

he may be able to stop taking drugs ,or stop get drunk ,,but he will remain A SINNER in more ways then one

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proudpapa Aug 21, 2012

Hi brothagary, let me offer another perspective,

Brothagary wrote, ///haw can carnal men who are sons of adam , who bore the image of the man of dust as paul said ,,stop sinning with out being born again///

I believe that Finney,Paris Readhead and the like whom see the danger of and regect The Catholic Augustines view of Original sin would all agree That Man must be converted, and become as little children, to enter into the kingdom of heaven.(man must be born again)(Finney believed very much in the rebirth(read finneys memoirs)

brothagary wrote ///god needs to first put his spirit in the this fallen man ,and take out his old heart and replace it and wright his laws on this heart///

All men Have been given the light most just resist it. (hence why men are guilty)"the true Light, which lighteth (every man) that cometh into the world"
All men have the Law on there heart (all men unsaved a like have a Conscience) "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"(hence why men are guilty)
this is the reason all men are guilty not because of birth or DNA (that in which they have no choice of)but rather because they have the knowledge to do good but sometimes choose to do evil. "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who ((hold))((Bible Greek does not say suppress as does many augustinian influenced Bibles translate this word)) the truth in unrighteousness" "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." (hence why men are guilty) If One does not get Pauls groundwork in chapters 1 thru 3 of Romans, oh how he will come to some most bizare conclusions when he Gets to ch 9 of Romans, But if he would throw out his Catholic Augustinian influenced Commentaries and paraphrased translations and his preconcieved Doctrines of men and Read the book of Romans word for word straight threw, Oh how simple the Gospel is when we have not been spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The unregenerate man needs to stop resisting the Holy Ghost (You can not resist that which is not available)(hence why all men are guilty because they resist the light that is available to all men)"(men are not guilty because of there DNA but because of there choice)
they need to stop being stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears
and allow God to rebirth them to give them a new Spirit and a new heart that is moved by His laws on there heart.

RE:brothagary Wrote ///the carnal min is enmity against god ,and is not sunject to the law of god///

The Carnal(sarx) rational mind without faith is limited and can not see beyound Its finite rational observations and experiences which is always self pleasure seeking and self willed this self will is at war with the concience thus enmity against God. In its self (Sarx is not sin) but it is the vessel in which sin is preformed, It is the vessel by which we are tempted. But man is not purely Sarx He has also been given (a conscience) But rather than heed to that voice in his conscience all Men, all grown men without exception will supress that truth that light within with there (sarx) mind and Bring upon themselves Guilt (thus why men are guilty) for which there is only one Cure.

Brothagary wrote ///how can the sons of adam make there own mind and heart spirtual with out the new birth ?????///

To reject the catholic Augustines view of Original sin in no way is a rejection of the new birth.
Finney, Paris Readhead and the like all believed very much in the atoning work of Christ and the neccesity of the new Birth in order to be saved.

The Augustinian view of Original sin in itsself does not fix the reality of mans Depravity, rather it often as Finney pointed is used only as an excuse for mans continued depravity..


I have to go now so cutting it short but I want to conclude with what I said earlier:

We must agree that there are Men of equal intellect and even of equal Spirtual insight that both agree and disagree on Augustines concept of Original sin

P
proudpapa Aug 21, 2012

Paris Reidhead and His view of the Catholic Augustines view of Original Sin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHgsZv1JyJE

Edit: PS Paris Reidhead in this sermon says Of Augustine and his view of Original sin, Quote :" He (Augustine) now has the philosophy that is going to bring the church into babylonic captivity from that time unto the present, because He (Augustine) now has found away to completely contridict the Word of God......" end of quote

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