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Have miracles ceased?

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

Does the New Testament teach that miracles have passed away? Does the New Testament teach that tongues, prophesy, healings, signs, and wonders have passed away with the canon of scripture being established?

I think a discussion should be opened up on this. If the New Testament teaches that signs and wonders have ceased. Let's have a discussion.

I believe many in the forum reject miracles. You must have a scriptural warrant. I am not interested in a debate. Many seem to think miracles are of the devil. So let's talk bout it

I am open. If cessionism is scriptural. Then please state your case. If miracles are of the devil and many seem to believe this. Then please show me from scripture that cessionism is valid. But before I say that miracles have ceased I need to see the scriptural position.

I am going to stand down from this thread I will check again in s day or two. But I really want to hear if there is a valid case for cessionism.

Posted by Bearmaster.

M
Miccah Aug 21, 2012

Miracles have not ceased.

We need to make sure that we tell the difference betweent he real and the fake is all.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

Miracles have not ceased.

We need to make sure that we tell the difference betweent he real and the fake is all.

Exactly. I still don't remember anyone on the boards recently saying miracles and the supernatural don't happen these days though...

S
SkepticGuy Aug 21, 2012

its hard to think that this has not been discussed on this forum b4. 'bear' doesnt want to debate but the way this is being presented will result in a debate. its being presented as: "this is what i think, this is what i think others think, i think others are wrong, now sum1 try 2 prove me wrong becuz you cant". and this is a strawman anyway becuz i have never seen any1 say miracles and healing dont happen 2day.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

I know John MaCArthur is a faithful expositer of scripture. He has a high regard for the word of God. As I recall he wrote a book entitled The Charismatics. In the book he argues and quite effectively that the sign gifts and miracles have ceased.

I used to hold to a cessionist position. Abandoned it. And now rethinking it. Is MacArthur's position viable? I am still interested what does the New Testament teach n this?

We seem to agree that miracles are seem to be of the evil one. The safest position would be to embrace cessionism again. But seeking for more New Testament scriptures other than what is found in 1 Cor. 13.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

I know John MaCArthur is a faithful expisitor of scripture. He has a high regard for the word of God. As I recall he wrote a book entitled The Charismatics. In the book he argues and quite effectively that the sign gifts and miracles have ceased.

But he's wrong. I have yet to see a cessationist come up with any Scripturally faithful, contextual, historical, and exegetical evidence with any merit, but hey, people will want to believe what they want to believe.

In response to "Charismania" he's taken the opposite extreme. Both are wrong.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

So Skeptic. I am open. What fo you say? What is your understanding of this. Play ball. Not the man. Dialogue. What do you believe the scriptures teach on this?

Can you not exhibit a Berean spirit and ask what sayith the Lord.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

But you are speaking of a highly respected teacher of scripture. Certainly there must be some credibility to his position.

Bear.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

But you are speaking of a highly respected teacher of scripture.

I've not slandered him personally, only disagreed with his assertion. He's a good teacher on many things, and I agree with most of the stuff I've seen him say (though I haven't gone much into his writings). On this issue he's mistaken though.

It's almost 3am here, and I don't have the energy tonight to get into it, but I'll come around again tomorrow, or whenever I get the chance.

Play ball. Not the man. Dialogue. What do you believe the scriptures teach on this? Can you not exhibit a Berean spirit and ask what sayith the Lord.

I've noticed you're a bit quick to load other brothers' and sisters' mouths with sentiments and opinions they've not stated. I'll make no issue of it, as it doesn't really bother me, and I'll say no more from this point, but as a friendly admonition to use a bit of caution, sooner or later you're going to run across someone on here who will not like having their intentions dictated back to them inaccurately, and they might not handle it well. I don't think your accusation lines up with what SkepticGuy intended. People are not going to desire dialogue or any Berean searching with you if they think you're going to continue to take their thoughts, words, and ideas out of context and accuse them of things they're not saying/thinking/doing.

Just an observation, bro. Cheers!

S
SkepticGuy Aug 21, 2012

So Skeptic. I am open. What fo you say? What is your understanding of this. Play ball. Not the man. Dialogue. What do you believe the scriptures teach on this?

you seem 2 think i attacked u or sumthing. not a'tall. just thought ur presentation invited debate when u said u did not want to debate. what do i believe the scriptures teach? u are making the assumption i believe the scriptures. if they be true then there is a valid argument to be made for both sides. if they be wrong then it doesnt really matter.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

Thanks bro. Take the admonition to heart. God's rest be on you.

Bear.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

So you do not believe the scriptures are true? You need to clarify your last post.

Bearmaster.

J
jimp Aug 21, 2012

hi, i have seen many miracles in my christian lifetime and i do not care who said they have ceased ... they are still many occurring daily.i would like to retell a story of a dear friend named gene who had a surgery that removed three ribs and his left lung from his body... as his right lung was filling with t. b. , he submitted as an unbeliever to prayer for healing. after being prayed for he felt air enter into his chest... he went home and when he took off his shirt the scar from the surgery was gone... he called dr. byers and went into see what was going on... dr. byers exrayed his chest and the ribs were back in genes body as was a new lung and the other lung was clean of t b ... this was investigated by the fbi for it was printed in a magazine as a testimony and found to be truth. they had the before and after xrays.jimp

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ccchhhrrriiisss Aug 21, 2012

No, I know from both Scripture and personal experience that miracles have not ceased. The Lord has done so many miraculous things in my life...many of which I strive to avoid boasting of (because these things are from the Lord, by the Lord for His glory).

At the same time, I feel a very real need to test any claims or words that are attributed to God or the supernatural. I also know that we are not to become engrossed in such things but to seek the One who does them. I think that any believer wouldn't care about such a "test" or scrutiny that is done in truthfulness of heart and good faith.

I do not find any passage in Scripture that indicates that miracles -- which are only "miraculous" from our perspective -- were only for a certain time period. I have heard messages regarding cessation, but I cannot find any scriptural basis for their claims. And, of course, we see the Lord moving all around us...each and every day.

If the Lord answers prayers, there are no varying stages of "miracle." If the Lord provides food, clothing, house or a job, there is no variation in whether or not it was "miraculous" or not. If a person has a dream, vision or mere "wooing" of the Holy Spirit as God leads, it is all the same God "miraculously" moving the heart.

We cannot afford to place God in a box. I remember hearing a believer who attended a church where cessation was taught almost as a fundamental view (and was a required belief of active members). Yet, this believer would pray for the sick and for other miracles. He told me that, even though he was skeptical, it doesn't hurt to sincerely ask the Lord to move on the behalf of His creation.

When I was a teenager, I visited a church that my oldest sister attended a church in the Dallas area. A man in the church shared a testimony about his teenage daughters (well, they were teenagers when this event happened). They were at a function with their youth group. When everyone was leaving that night, they were chatting with the youth pastor and his wife. The youth pastor and his wife watched them get into their car and then drove off.

However, the girls' car wouldn't start. The girl sitting in the driver's seat would turn the key and not hear anything. This happened before cell phones became so common. Then, they noticed two men approaching them in the dark, empty parking lot. They were afraid, locked the doors and kept trying to start it. One girl started praying aloud. When the men were nearly to the car, the car finally started. The girls quickly peeled out of the parking lot and drove home.

When they were home, they were in tears. They told their parents what happened. The parents prayed with their daughters and thanked God for his protection.

The next morning, the dad wanted to know what was wrong. It was an old car, so he was worried about the girls driving it. So, he went out into their garage (where their car was parked) and popped the hood. He was shocked to notice that there was no battery.

They felt that the men in the parking lot may have seen the girls, stole the battery after they went inside and waited around for them to leave. Regardless, it was quite miraculous that God had started their car when it didn't have a battery.


Acts 2:17-21

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


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deltadom Aug 21, 2012

No

sermonindex Aug 21, 2012

If someone says that miracles have ceased, it's up to them to prove that is the case since there is no scripture that says and supports this.

So for those who say miracles have ceased, how do you come to this conclusion from Gods Word?

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SkepticGuy Aug 21, 2012

So you do not believe the scriptures are true? You need to clarify your last post.

no clarification is needed. i never stated what i believe becuz in the long run truth is not dependent upon what i believe or what u believe. i simply said if the bible is true then there are valid arguments on both sides. if not then it doesnt matter. this dicussion and many others like it are about topics that have been argued since bible times and they have never been settled. they will not be settled here. if more people realized that then perhaps there would be less arguing among you.

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jimp Aug 21, 2012

hi skeptic, you need not worry for as a skeptic you will never see a miracle for 10 could be happening in your life now and you would not know it because you are a skeptic. you must have someone on the scene with faith and trust.Jesus is the same... yesterday ,today and forever and He is the miracleworker.jimp.any conversion from condemnation to eternal zoe life is the greatest miracle.

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SkepticGuy Aug 22, 2012

that does not answer the question or settle the issue though jimp. u made it about me. u were probably dodge ball champion at ur high school :-)

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MrBillPro Aug 22, 2012

Naw, miracles do exist, I woke up this morning, to me personally that's a miracle.There are two ways to live, you can live as if nothing is a miracle, you can live as if everything is a miracle. :)

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