Outward manifestations accompanying Revival!

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

I have seen a recurring decimal in the history of Revivals with regards to the accompanying outward manifestations and I seek to state them here. So we can find explanations for them even as we prepare for major the Outpourin in the weeks and months ahead.
The same day Revival broke out in Northern Ireland 1859 under d ministry of James Mcquilkin and his Prayer patners, the Prayer meetins in Fulton Street New York under Jeremiah Lamphier also experienced the Blessing.

Also in the 1904/5 Welsh Revival,the same night the break came in Loughor South Wales under Evan Roberts, Dr R.B Jones' voice was drowned out by a simultaneous audible Prayer of the congregation in thE middle of a sermon.
But despite the spontaneity of these outbreaks,a remarkable difference existed in thE intensity of the outward manifestations and Power that prevailed.
Its on record that during the 1859 Awakenning, the physical phenomena accompanying Revivals were very little in the US,almost non existent in Endland and Scotland, but very predominant in Northern Ireland.
Its also on record that the outward phenomena that prevailed in South Wales under Evan Roberts' ministry was far greater than what R.B Jones and other had in the North.
Now what is the common denominator? Could this be another fact of God,s Sovereignty of could it be accurately interpreted.
Now in my opinion,I think this occurence could be inextricably connectEd to the Spirit of Prayer that prevails in a locality relative to the other at the other end of the spectrum.
Its obvious -in my ooinion- that the Spirit of Prayer prEvailed more in Evan Robert's life bofore thE Revival than it did in R.B JonE's. I also feel James Mcquilken and his friends did a far greater knee-work than the noon Prayer meetings of Fulton Street.Hence the Spirit Prayer and d outward phenomena was far predominant in Nothern Ireland 1849.
This is my humble opinion in this matter and I'll like you to let me know your perspective along these lines. uzosikeemyjoe@yahoo.com, on facebook or @ +2348034365429. Bro Emeka Joe Uzosike is a Revival enthusiast and writes rrom the heart of Tropical Africa (Nigeria)

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

I wrote 2 articles on manifestations during revival and church history clearly shows that the current specific phenoma are extra-biblical and not associated with past revivals in a good sense. These manifestations were actually considered the enemy at work or the conviction of the Spirit on the backslidden and unconverted.

REVIVAL EXPERIENCES: CRYING OUT by Greg Gordon
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15172&forum=16

REVIVAL EXPERIENCES: SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT by Greg Gordon
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14485&forum=16

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

I beg to take exceptions to your opinion Sir, that these Phenomena are extra biblical., not associated with past Revivals and also may bE considered the enemy at work. Obviously Acts S:1-5 and Acts8:7 show that the Apostolic Revival had its own measure of outward phenomena that terrified outsiders. Its also on record that the first outward impact of Pentecost was so much noise enough to gather the whole city of Jerusalem and confound bystanders. Obviously no one would assume that Acts2:6 suggests that the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues in a gentlemanly manner ,conducted themselves with utmost decorum and dignity and still generated enough noice to attract a whole City.
Whereas the influence of d enemy durin Revivals cannot be completely divorced as we saw in Acts8:18-20, even the chaos they seem to create is for the common good.
As touchin the outward Phenomena accompanyin Revivals, Its clear that different people react differently when they're invaded by Divinity since we do not all react simillarly to the same Stimuli.
Afterall, in the Revival that broke out in Ramah under Prophet Samuel,the three detachments of soldiers Saul sent simply prophesied and kept their dignity, yet under simillar stimuli, Saul prophesied as d others did but went further to strip himself and was in coma for 24hours.
So its not fair to divorce outward phenomena completely and label them extra biblical..

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

I am rethinking the signs and wonders issue. Or the outward manifestations of revival. Whereas I do believe in the power of the Spirit and the fact signs and miracles can and often times do accompany the preaching of the gospel. Jesus warned that false prophets will arise to deceive even the elect, if possible, with false signs and wonders.

True revival is not gauged by the outward manifestations of what may be attributed to the Spirit. But true revival is the inward work of the Spirit working in a sinners heart to bring them from darkness into light. True revival will be the Holy Spirit working in the heart of the saint to instill a greater heart felt devotion and love for Jesus. True revival will be the Spirit of God instilling power in the believer to desire greater holiness. True revival will be the Holy Spirit working within the believer for greater power to witness the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Signs and wonders will be secondary but may follow to authenticate the gospel. Remember Jesus told his disciples to not rejoice the demons submitted to them. But to rejoice their names were written in heaven. Thus a revival should be gospel centered and not signs and wonders centered.

My revised understanding.

Bearnaster.

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

God bless you for having the guts to write these Greg.

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign;" -Jesus

Real revival is when the church repents, and get's back to God's way of doing things. Not laughing uncontrollably out loud, or rolling on the floor, or shaking uncontrollably, or acting like an animal, or lining up to get knocked over on your back, or acting like a drunkard. Revival has always been repentance towards God. Not the circus that gets the name "revival" tagged on it these days.

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

Obviously Acts S:1-5 and Acts8:7 show that the Apostolic Revival had its own measure of outward phenomena that terrified outsiders.

Simply because there were some demons being exorcised by the early Apostles does not make it a circus like modern day christian healing crusades or television programs. Also this scripture validates my articles which show clearly from all major revivals in the last 300 years that when there was a manifestation such as is deemed good in our day it was considered demonic or a person severely backslidden.

so much noise enough to gather the whole city of Jerusalem and confound bystanders.

During the time of the festival there were more than 1 million people staying in jerusalem, by no means did it gather the entire city. Though there was enough noise to gather a crowed of people as a witness to the Gospel. Thus all true miracles bring glory to God and validate the Gospel and promote Jesus Christ not men. When a miracle promotes a man or ministry so they can become rich, that ministry is not from God.

Whereas the influence of d enemy durin Revivals cannot be completely divorced as we saw in Acts8:18-20, even the chaos they seem to create is for the common good.

I believe you quoted the wrong verse but in some ways it is exactly the right verse for this discussion:

Acts 8:18-20
New International Version (NIV)
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!

Saul prophesied as d others did but went further to strip himself and was in coma for 24hours.

1 Samuel 19:24
He stripped off his robes and also prophesied in Samuel's presence. He lay that way all that day and night. This is why people say, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"

He was not necessarily a coma because the meaning of the hebrew word does not really allow this interpretation a much more likely meaning is:

c) (Hithpael)
1) to throw or prostrate oneself, throw oneself upon
2) to lie prostrate, prostrate oneself

My friend I recommend you hear this message:

Another Gospel by David Wilkerson
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=2&commentView=itemComments

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rufnrust Aug 31, 2012

If you guys are so sure they are full of devils, why not go cast them out and show some "real" signs and wonders by delivering these poor deceived fellas.

Russell

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jimp Aug 31, 2012

hi, one thing i know for sure ... if revival breaks forth from God it will be at our place and done our way. many false revivals might come in those other places.jimp

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rufnrust Aug 31, 2012

great post jimp!

Russ

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

In the opening verses of 1 Cor.2 Paul says be determined to know nothing except Jesus and him crucified. This was the message that he preached. It was authenticated by signs and wonders. But revival must be about the message of the cross of Jesus Christ. Not the outward manifestations. Again revival is about the gospel message. The message of Jesus death, burial, and resurrection.

I have been ever so wrong to put my emphasis on signs and wonders. They may come. They may not come. Satan can duplicate signs and wonders. But he can never duplicate the true preaching of the cross.

Bearmaster..

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

If you guys are so sure they are full of devils, why not go cast them out and show some "real" signs and wonders by delivering these poor deceived fellas.
Russell

No man of God I am aware of seeks after demons to cast them out. If the situation comes across our path we are given faith and grace to do this but it is not our "ministry" to seek out those demon possessed we have no model of that in the Bible from the apostles. We do have a group of 7 men who went about doing this in the book of Acts and took this ministry upon themselves and the Lord manifested the true motives behind their so called ministry.

Signs and wonders are to testify the preaching of the Gospel and is not something we seek to do for attention or to show we can.

God is sovereign in His the ways He works. He is a God of miracles. Yet He has given us truth in the Scriptures to test what see and hear. Jesus Christ Himself stated in the last days:

"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time." (Matthew 24:24-25)

So yes we should be concerned if so called Signs and wonders are happening that bring attention to men and not God and are extra Biblical. Such as the teaching of impartation of the Spirit from one man to another. Such practices are dangerous.

The laying on of hands in the Scriptures are clearly just something man does to signify what God is doing. But the Holy Spirit does not jump out of one person into another. So therefore we must be Biblical in our approach to what we see and hear.

"If it is not in the Book I am not going to believe it." - A.W. Tozer

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

We do have a group of 7 men who went about doing this in the book of Acts and took this ministry upon themselves and the Lord manifested the true motives behind their so called ministry.

Hahaha! Yes!

Fantastic posts Greg and bearmaster.

"If it is not in the Book I am not going to believe it." - A.W. Tozer

+1

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Lysa Aug 31, 2012

I respect all of you but most of you are judging one generation’s standards by your own standards of today. I wasn’t at Azuza Street but neither were you! And what was written about it was "one" persons piece of the pie and how many pieces of the pie is there usually? 8? 12? But I know that God was there and yes, as well as a few evil spirits but does that dismiss what God did? It’s the same thing for the Wales Revival and we all know that God was there too. And it’s even the same for these “other” revivals, God was not 100% absent.

AND I plead with you to not deem something that the Bible is silent on to be “of demons” just because you don’t agree with the practice (i.e. falling in Spirit). We need to tread lightly what we teach others to hate especially when the Bible is silent on it. Far too many people on SI write their own Bibles where the Bible is silent on an issue. Shame on you. It’s pride and vanity.

God said and yet we still do not understand.... For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55.8-9

God bless,
Lisa

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

I feel so sad to acknowledge that the line of thought had drifted way beyond what I had in mind. Had wanted us to trace d common denominator that defines d intensity of outward manifestations during Revivals. But now we seem to be criticising. This is my first time of chatting in a social media site on an International level tho I'd registerd here for two years. I now know that I assumed some things which I should have clarified. I thnk my use of the Word REVIVAL has put me at variance with some of our brothers due to difference in nomenclature. I was rather taken aback when Brother Greg mentioned the Modern miracle crusades and Tv programs because I cant imagine myself thinkin about Mega miracle/healing crusades when thinking about.They're totally miles apart to me. Also For instance am not used to the word "Real Revival" which our American Brothers use again and again. I understand our brethren in d US had to add d prefix "real" because of what some Pastors there do. As soon as a guest preacher preaches a sensational sermon, d host Pastor rushes to d Press d next day to announce " we're havin a Revival". Am afraid thats not the kind of Revival I recognise.

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

Can't imagine myself thinkin about Mega miracle /healing crusades when thinking about REVIVAL. They're both miles apart. The one is man made, the other is Divine.

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

God bless you Sis Lisa. Flesh and Blood had not revealed this unto you...

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

I've heared that sermon by Brother Wilkerson Sir. He's been a BLESSING to me.

If the scriptures validates your stand that strange outward manifestation are always demonic or for those who're severely backslidden, then I'll find it somethin to worry about since it doesn't sit properly on my mind. I still maintain that the Apostles generated a noise that attracted a crowd. And when those rational humans gathered,what they saw the Apostles do made them conclude that they were drunk.It could be some of the Apostles staggered, while some lay prostrate on the floor thereby showing signs of intoxication. I maintain that had the Apostles simply conducted themselves in a slightly dignified manner while speakin those foreign languages, they won't have generated that noise that attracted the crowd and they wouldn't have been called drunks. The behaviour of the Apostle's was so strange that Peter deemed it necessary to begin his sermon by explaining the phenomena.And no one would say for sure that the Apostles were either demon possessed or "severely backslidden". Even though they'd backslidden at Gethsemane before our Lord's death,the 10 day retreat they'd spent bofore Pentecost should've been enough to revive them. I'd quoted Acts8:18-20 to buttress the point that Sorcerers and Satanists could still stick around durin Revivals. Whether King Saul was in a coma or simply in an unconscious state, the bottom line is that he came in contact with the Revival in Ramah, and the Spirit's impact on him put him in an emotional state or which he had no control whatsoever. If the Spirit did it in Ramah and on Pentecost, He may do it again in our Time.

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

I find this amusing that I argued for this position. That my emphasis was always on the outward manifestations. The signs and wonders. But this is a misplaced emphasis. Signs and wonders do not save a soul. It is the message of the criss. The greatest miracle, aside from the resurrection of Jesus Christ, is the salvation of a sinner who is bound for hell. The greatest miracle is a sinner turned into a saint.

Revivals have always been about the lost coming to Christ. Thus the true outward manifestations of any revival are sinners being saved by gracce. Again Jesus reminds his disciples in Luke 10 that they do not rejoice the demons submit to them. But they rejoice that tbeir names are written in heaven. In essence that they are rejoicing in the gospel.

I an not denying the reality of miracles that follow gospel preaching. But I believe the miracles are secondary to the gospel message. The miracles will confirm, autheticate the gospel. But to emphasize them is putting the cart before the horse.

My insights.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Aug 31, 2012

Again Jesus warns several times that many false prophets will come doing signs and false wonders. According to Mat. 7 he warns that false prophets will say they prophesied and did many signs and wonders in his name. His response will be they depart from him. Jesus will calk these false prophets workers if ubiquity.

We do best to downplay the signs and wonders and stay within the bounds of the New Testament scriptures.

My insights.

Bearmaster.

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endlessjoe Aug 31, 2012

I sincerely feel we've hyped this matteer of signs and wonders. Thought I won't talk about it again but am forced to ask you my Brother Bearmaster, do you think you can "downplay signs and wonders" and still "stay within the bounds of New Testament scriptures"? Are you referring to the same New TestamEnt which chronicled d accounts of men whose shadows healed the sick and castout demons. Are you really saying you're going to "DOWNPLAY" genuine signs and wonders without qualms as to whose axe is goad, even if you qUench The Spirit in d process?