the reality of spiritual warfare v. psych issues

D

DEADn Sep 5, 2012

I have struggled with this area alot. I am very interested in psychology but in this field it tends to put away the notion of the spiritual realm and instead suggests that those who are 'tormented' suffer from mental issues. I would agree to an extent on this but I have also seen many Christians be quick to point out it is the DEVIL doing such thing.

I recently came across a comment from a blog I read dealing with demon possession and psychology and he said something that really gave me food for thought about the Christian community how much is really authentic in terms for spiritual warfare.

Here is a comment that struck me:

"OMG! My mom was totally into this for years. I like to call it, The Wacky World of Spiritual Warfare. I’ve never met Frank Perretti, but I have met and had dinner with a number of them: Dr, Ed Murphy who wrote The Handbook for Spiritual Warfare, Neil Anderson, Mark Bubeck, Tom White, and others. My mom used to organize seminars and recruited me to help with box lunches and selling their books.
What a weird time that was! They used to sit around our living room, trying to upstage each other with shocking and dramatic stories of demon possession. You would not believe the stories I have heard.
The worst part is that they rejected psychology and actively discouraged therapy of any kind. It’s not a mental problem. It’s Satan! The whole thing was utter nonsense and from someone (reluctantly) on the inside, I can tell you they were nutters and charlatans who took complete advantage of vulnerable people."

***I changed one word in the above because it was not a cuss word but a crude word.***

Now, this sentence
"They used to sit around our living room, trying to upstage each other with shocking and dramatic stories of demon possession." really stuck out at me because it caused me to wonder when reading of tales of possession just how authentic authors are with them. I have the book 'The Twilight Labrynth' by George Otis Jr. I found it a fascinating read yet some situations in it really seem 'out there' and I wondered then how much more of that book is really genuine vs. sensationalistic.

The end of this post leads me to wonder if they say what they say because they see a game being played and those who buy into these guys books are the fools or is he not seeing the whole picture and being a denying of the things that are not seen. Does this make sense?

What are your opinions.

D

DEADn Sep 5, 2012

On the heels of this, how does the gospel deal with those who do suffer from mental illness and how the gospel can change a heart?

ie, I have a cousin who has a mental illness. He is 37 but mentally is about 8 years old. He has gone to church and pretends to do pentecostal stuff because he mimics what he has seen but his greater influence is violence. How does the power of God influence such a body/mind?

John

sermonindex Sep 5, 2012

just wanted to let you know I have a mental illness. I hope to be delivered from it some day. demons are very much involved and its a spiritual battle. I'm not sure if i will ever be delivered from it because it might be a messenger of Satan type thing... and God has at least dealt with me that way using the demons. But maybe He allows it to be used that way because I have no way to get to a spiritual warfare counselor (that I trust, like Jim Logan on here). It sure is humbling and God uses it in that way to discipline me.

In response to your last question:

I believe when I am fully walking with God in complete obedience I will be free (and have been free at times). Every case is different with different understandings/histories/doctrines that God treats in different ways (seemingly).

I believe for all mentally ill people God will not allow the person to be free until they satisfy His will for righteousness in faith in some way, to some extent (if not fully satisfying His demands). For example, repentance with godly sorrow, being merciful to everyone, obeying His voice, being a light, etc.

anyway I still thank God He is teaching me His way even though at times it is so hard and frustrating to be disciplined through demons.

I have hope! I know God is amazing. I think He's awesome and I love Him.

D

DEADn Sep 5, 2012

Noah

I am having some trouble understanding your meaning in your post. When you walk in complete obedience in God then you will be completely free? Isn't that like saying if you follow all the Commandments of God then you will be completely free yet no person can possibly do such a thing. It sounds to me as if you are beating yourself over a misunderstanding of who God is.

Also, on the mentally ill, ie my cousin, he is not capable of living on his down and doing finances. He barely knows how to dress himself and cannot ties his shoes even though I tried to teach him on ocasion. How do you think God works in a heart with a person with such a mentality when he really doesn't understand what sin is? All he can do is mimick what he sees. ie. aunt used to let him watch WWE wrestling so he would get worked up over that violence. When in church he would do as he saw others doing and then say God touched him when in reality he was probably stimulated by something thinking it must be God doing something.
The family thinks that his mental issued stemmed from and medication he took when he was younger and it messed his mind up totally. I have wondered how the Gospel reaches people like him and people on the street even worse than he is to change their lives if they cannot even change their clothes or even know how to take a bath or shower.

R

romanchog Sep 5, 2012

I believe that psychology is the devil's counterfeit. ALL issues are spiritual issues. Psychology (even in its "Christian" form) makes it think that some issues are simply a matter of the mind and that you yourself can solve them. (Note: If that were the case, why do so many psychologists have the same problems that they are supposedly helping others recover from). That does not mean that all mental issues are demonic; but they are all spiritual. If the issue is not demonic, they will be healed with the Holy Spirit, prayer, Bible reading (and following).

However, not all mental issues are demonic. From your description of your cousin, this does not sound like mental illness (as it is defined) but more as a mental disability as a result of something that physically happened to his brain, similar to someone with Down's Syndrome.

You ask how you can reach your cousin for Christ. First, you must understand that God is good and merciful. God is also in control of your cousin's life, and He permitted this to happen to your cousin. So if that is true, there is a way to reach your cousin with the gospel.

Second, you must pray and ask our merciful God to teach you how to reach your cousin.

Third, if he has the mind of an 8 year-old, he can understand sin. You don't have to call it sin. He can understand that there are things that are right and things that are wrong. Even a three year old can understand that. It is simple to present the gospel to a child.

1. Explain to them that God is Holy. What does this mean? It means that God is perfect and he cannot be in the presence of anything that is bad.
2. Ask him if he has ever done anything bad. Have you ever lied? Have you ever gotten mad? Have you ever... (anything that you have seem him do that is sinful)?
3. When he answers in the affirmative, tell him that because he has done these things he cannot be in the presence of God the Father who is Holy. This will probably make him sad.
4. Tell him then that God loves him and God wants to be with him, so God provided a way to clean him of his bad things so that he can be in the presence of God.
5. God sent His Son Jesus to suffer here, to die on the cross so that he can be cleansed of our bad things. Jesus paid for your cousin's punishment. (If your cousin has ever been punished, you can explain to him how this works, that instead of your cousin being punished for the bad thing he did, Jesus came and took that punishment). To prove to us that Jesus paid the punishment for all, God made Him come to life again.
6. Explain to him that just because Jesus came and suffered and took the punishment does not mean everyone is automatically cleaned of their bad things. A person has to repent (decide not to do bad things anymore) and decide to follow Jesus and obey everything that He said. Then this will clean you from your bad things so that we can be with the Holy God.

You may have to repeat this many times (on different occasions) before he gets it. [Edited to add this sentence]

I hope this helps you. Blessings.

sermonindex Sep 6, 2012

Deadn:

I have struggled with legalism and perfectionism. so I just wanted to get that out there. So maybe I'm just not accepting God's forgiveness but still trying in some capacity to please Him with the law. But He deals with me according to how I believe. I believe the God offers a life with victory over sin in the Bible. If I don't have it, I would conclude I don't seek Him enough. That's the only way I can make sense of Scripture and especially when Jesus said "all things are possible with God".

Do I live in victory over sin in my life? no. But I make gains when I seek Him and make up my mind to put His will first in my life. This leads me to believe that this victory is possible, even if we would still have the capacity to fall into struggles--and supposedly it would be less and less.

About your cousin: I subscribe to a principle in an apocryphal book that says God raises up children through a guardian angel who die before the age of accountability--and apply this to other situations like mental retardation, etc.

Simply put by Romanchog:

"...you must understand that God is good and merciful.

Bless you

sermonindex Sep 6, 2012

Also, on the mentally ill, ie my cousin, he is not capable of living on his down and doing finances. He barely knows how to dress himself and cannot ties his shoes even though I tried to teach him on ocasion. How do you think God works in a heart with a person with such a mentality when he really doesn't understand what sin is? DeaDn

Brother, my son Daniel has cerebral palsy with severe cognitive difficulties. He is 26 years of age and is said to have the mind of a 3 year old child. One day about ten years ago as I was talking to Daniel in a quiet moment about the Lord, his countenance changed, and for a few minuets I witnessed a full measure of understanding in his face. I re-affirmed to him that he belonged to God in heaven. Although Daniel can only speak a few simple words he looked me straight in the eyes and said “yes”, then nodded his head with some conviction. I found myself moved beyond words and realised that his disability of mind was no barrier to God. Since that first time, I have seen this same quietness and purpose of understanding come upon Daniel several times. My thought is that Daniel is able to comprehend in his heart that God is indeed God. I hear Daniel in the night laughing and expressing such happiness sometimes that I have seriously considered the possibility that he is playing with angels of God. One thing is certain Daniel belongs to God and he understands it. By it he is able to receive instruction regarding his general behaviour to such an extent that when he begins to get angry at something or other and I remind him that he must control himself, which I seal with a kiss; Daniel always settles down and actually thanks me for helping him. Your cousin cannot be beyond the unfathomable grace and mercies of the Lord.

D

DEADn Sep 6, 2012

I have to say that in the case of my cousin, it is the fault of my aunt and uncle as to why he is where he is, even now. I saw this because they didn't allow him to do much of anything constructive except to watch violence on tv. This proved its fruit and now he is not with his parents. Domestic violence is what happened.

I think that if he environment was changed and more positive he probably would respond much better but given the circumstances it just didn't happen.

Aside from that I still wonder about those, even on the streets, who cannot fend for themselves and even thinking rationally at all. It is one thing to have glimpses of a God experience for someone in this situation but how does a lifestyle change work? Psychology, has no way of discerning when something spiritual is taking place. They can only test what is going on in the brain and so forth and making that bridge between the spirit and the natural is a very tough call because of the nature if the atmosphere behind it.

sermonindex Sep 6, 2012

Aside from that I still wonder about those, even on the streets, who cannot fend for themselves and even thinking rationally at all. It is one thing to have glimpses of a God experience for someone in this situation but how does a lifestyle change work? Psychology, has no way of discerning when something spiritual is taking place. They can only test what is going on in the brain and so forth and making that bridge between the spirit and the natural is a very tough call because of the nature if the atmosphere behind it. DeaDn.

I take your point about the environmental influences of your cousin’s personal life experiences and the vulnerability of his mind to process those influences and make sense of them.

Can I ask you John if you are familiar with Classical and Operant conditioning theories? I have seen the beginning of this post and your stated interest in Psychology. Although I have a definite objection to Psychology as a legitimate way of thinking about fallen humanity I did read Psychology and Theoretical Sociology at Leicester University in the 1980’s. In your introductory post your question seems to revolve around a belief in the reality and validity of psychology for understanding “humanity” but schisms when you recognise or else remember that demonic warfare is real, even if it is exaggerated and even boasted in by some believers. Making the correlation between demonic activity and the psychological view of the nature of “humanity” is both possible and in fact necessary to anyone who has rationally seen that psychology does contain some real insights into the human condition. This is because psychology as a subject has real historical roots in the lives of individuals who themselves held to and believed in realities which were themselves informed by demonic activity. I have no intention of going into these things beyond saying that because it would attract the wrong kind of attention. But if you wish to look into it the above theories which are related by virtue of their historical development, you will realise that they demonstrate at least two realities of the relationship between the body and the mind. The first is Classical conditioning, which is principally to do with the physical body and physiological responses, and the second is Operant Conditioning which is principally to do with the mind and behavioural responses. From your own words you already recognise the potential relationship of demonic activity and the mind. You may also realise the difference between social environments, such as you have used to describe your cousins life experiences, and the atmosphere, which is the place of spiritual wickedness.

Beyond this keep in mind that the body of sin is the physical body and that the mind is either governed by the influences of the body or else is renewed by the working of the Holy Spirit. The fact that in Christ we have a new heart and a new life does nothing to remove the influence of the body of sin, with its power of sin and death, if we yet experience the power of it through yielding to its lusts and carnal desires. The fact that we have received a crucified life hidden in Christ which through baptism is expressed by walking in resurrection life still avails nothing if we do not also lay hold of it by faith and take account of the body of sin.

There is a book by Watchman Nee called the Latent power of the Soul which very nicely gives some really great insights into this subject. Though Nee doesn’t go into the two theories and how they form the underlying foundation for much of what is called generalised psychology, he does give a good exposition of the historical back ground to psychology as well as other humanities subjects. Beyond that I pray that you will be blessed with understanding and that the Lord will illuminate your mind to recognise that psychology in the end cannot be a valid point of reference for understanding fallen humanity or a new creature in Christ.

B

Bomar Sep 6, 2012

I would recommend listening to this sermon:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=599

It is the testimony of Kenny Deason, who happens to be the lead pastor at my church. He was very much into tribal rituatls and nomadic living, and was possessed with demons. Violent convulsions, grand-mal(sp?) seizures, voices roaring in his head. Jesus delivered him from all that, and he's had his own business in the past, and now is a pastor w/ 8 kids.

There is such a thing as a pure mental handicap as well.

I do believe Jesus can heal both.

P

PaulWest Sep 6, 2012

I found myself moved beyond words and realised that his disability of mind was no barrier to God. Since that first time, I have seen this same quietness and purpose of understanding come upon Daniel several times. My thought is that Daniel is able to comprehend in his heart that God is indeed God. I hear Daniel in the night laughing and expressing such happiness sometimes that I have seriously considered the possibility that he is playing with angels of God. One thing is certain Daniel belongs to God and he understands it. By it he is able to receive instruction regarding his general behaviour to such an extent that when he begins to get angry at something or other and I remind him that he must control himself, which I seal with a kiss; Daniel always settles down and actually thanks me for helping him. Your cousin cannot be beyond the unfathomable grace and mercies of the Lord.

This is a beautiful post. It warms my heart to think of how God is able to transcend physiological aberations and penetrate within the fields of innocence. And that, essentially, is what the blood of Jesus Christ affords us all, which is why it is to be inestimately praised. I sometimes think we who have our "mental faculties" steeped in normalcy are at a profound disadvantage to those who, by way of disability, have not calculatingly tasted of and been spoilt by Satan's delicacies.

Awesome post, dear brother. My warm regards go out to you and your family.

sermonindex Sep 7, 2012

It warms my heart to think of how God is able to transcend physiological aberations and penetrate within the fields of innocence. And that, essentially, is what the blood of Jesus Christ affords us all, which is why it is to be inestimately praised. Paul.

Amen brother. It is the only truth. Praise God. Thankyou for your blessing. It was warmly recieved and discerned. May the Lord bless you and your houshold also.

M

Myst Sep 10, 2012

Hi Noah and Deadn, Just wanted to address a couple of your issues in this forum.

"I have struggled with legalism and perfectionism. so I just wanted to get that out there. So maybe I'm just not accepting God's forgiveness but still trying in some capacity to please Him with the law."

There is an inherent irony regarding the law. If our goal is to keep the law in order to please our Father, we will neither be able to keep the law, nor please Him with our feeble attempts. But Jesus said, John 14:15, 23 If you love Me, keep My commandments.... If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word. And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

When our focus is keeping the law, it will never work. When we simply and truly love our heavenly Father, Jesus our brother, and our Holy Spirt, then by the unity of love, we naturally, by the power of love and that only, we are able to keep His commandments, and attain the holiness and righteousness He destined for us. Jesus actually broke the written law, as He noted David did as well, but in the breaking of it, there was love needing to be manifested, and in that way He kept the true Law of God, fulfilling, although supplanting, yet exceeding the written law.

Eze 11:19, 20 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh, so that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. And they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

Scripture often says loving our God and loving others is to keep the whole law. This divine love, a gift from God, compels us to keep the law, not out of any necessity, but for the sake of Love itself. We keep the highest laws of our God, because of our love. Acts of love, righteousness, become "natural" to us.

Relating this to Deadn's cousin and many with mental or catastrophic illnesses, we must learn that we can only love through the gift of power of Christ's love. God is love. God is in us. We can bring His love, His power, keeping His commandments, or any other thing He promised into realization, but only by Christ living in us, allowing Him to manifest Himself to them through us. That love means death to sin, darkness, and hate of any kind. It means purity in all ways.

Encountering the deeply troubled, an adult with dementia or a child who has not learned to speak, we have the ability to minister His love through us to them, even without words. I have often held a screaming child for a few minutes, focusing His love on them in my arms, and within minutes have seen the calming results.

The Gospel of Christ is manifestation of His love on earth, whether needed in inner peace, healing, the calming of a troubled (yes, demonized) mind, or just to wordlessly impart the knowledge that their heavenly Father loves them. In this way, we fulfill the promise of Christ, John 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
We must choose whether the weapons of our warfare are earthly or spiritual.

I am not minimizing the necessity of preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, but when young or troubled souls can not comprehend that message, we are not left unable to engage in the ministry of reconciliation with them. We can spiritually impart the fundamental Gospel of Jesus Christ in a way that can not humanly be understood. Our indwelling Creator and God of Love will do that from within us. If we allow Him.

I remind you to stir up the gift of God, which is in you by the laying on of my hands. For God not has given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy1:6, 7

When you feel helpless with those you can not reach in any other way, sit with them, hold them,love them. That they will understand and receive.

L

learn Sep 11, 2012

Hi Myst,
That was a nice post you wrote. I do agree that its about love. Love that you are willing to lay down your life for God and those that you love. Only then will God strengthen you and enable you to fight the good fight. Without love, we have nothing. Perfect love caseth out fear. Ok, I'm still in the process of trying to understand myself what I wrote. But I think I'm correct so far?

G

ginnyrose Sep 13, 2012

John,

You have asked some interesting questions. Have they been answered?

As old as I am I still grapple with this issue.

I know of someone who is profoundly religious. When you talk with her it becomes evident quickly she knows the Word, is very intelligent. But where the rubber meets the road it is a different story. She has a debilitating illness...I did some checking on the web and discovered it can cause mental illness. This person is a perfectionist, has an anger problem and does not look happy at all. She relies on morphine to deal with pain...and on and on.

There is one issue that troubles me. They know what James 5:13-16 teaches but there is a strong resistance to obey it. Does this tell us something? I find this resistance common to those with debilitating health issues: not sick enough to die but not well enough to live an active life, either.

Any comments?

D

DEADn Oct 31, 2012

http://www.theledger.com/article/20121031/NEWS/121039890/1374?Title=Nude-Woman-Who-Was-Shot-Described-as-Religious-Caring-Modest

I came across this article in a local paper and I remember seeing a glimpse of it on the local news. As I read it I couldn't help but think of this very thread that I started and it points to the reality of the psych issues vs. spiritual warfare.

In the article, the woman demonstrates what many Christians seemingly should be doing. Studying her bible intensely and having bible studies. She was very modest and to the point of being very shy at times. Just a personality trait. The rest of her life seems weird. Dare I say unbalance but it isn't unusual because there are many just as she has lived.

Somehow she was seen running around naked and even confront with cops with an unloaded gun. There is also talk in the article in which she talked about the anti christ so in essence she was a end times learner.

The worldview sees this as a typical Christian. Irrational, loony but she is the epitomy of the fringe element as far as her actions go. Yet, the only thing that seems missing in her life, from the article, is it doesn't say whether she was a witness of Jesus to people. I really think that part would be irrelevant anyway.

So, this whole thing brings me back to this point , AGAIN.
Is it psych issues v. spiritual issues? After all, she apparently spent alot of time in the Bible and that was her reputation.

If the Word of God is so powerful how can a person spend that much time studying and be overtaken by psych issues or spiritual issues such as her actions? It is too easy to give band aid statements such as she isn't a real Christian or maybe she didn't pray hard enough. That is a cop out to the whole issue. It is situations such as this which cause people see God as nonsense. Bible studies, modest seems to equal WACKO and who wants that? It is easier for people to stay in that moderate Christian stage because if you go fringe you end up similar as she. I think this is a mindset of the secular mind.

Tell me what you think? Though we don't have all the details where do you think she went wrong?

G

ginnyrose Oct 31, 2012

John,

Oh, my! - a woman running around naked and confronting the cops with an unloaded gun - sounds loony to me...yes, I believe the devil will use religious people to discredit God's Word; make religious wackos out of them.

From what you wrote, I would guess she was focusing too much on the devil instead of Jesus. Ditto to the ones in the lead post.

I have heard of evangelists who have preached about the devil from the pulpit. The entire sermon dealt with who he is and what he does, etc.

The fallout of these kind of sermons is that people's interest in the devil is stimulated to a point that is unhealthy; people experience more satanic attacks. They say it is unhealthy to focus too much on the devil, instead one should focus on Jesus.

Years ago I read a book titled "Occult ABC" - forget the name of the author...In the forward the writer cautioned the readers to make sure they are protected spiritually...I did not take the warning seriously. Anyhow...

For the next two nights I was awakened with a bad tummy ache, so bad I had to spend time in the bath room. Then I began to wonder at this absurdity: I was healthy, not ill at all, why this change in natural functions? Then I recalled what I read and disregarded as serious. So I prayed - and that was the end of that.

This is my take on this issue. However, having said that, I do enjoy Frank Peretti's books but do not regard them as a text book for information about the workings in the spirit realm.

I still do not know the difference between mental illness and those caused by spiritual problems. My husband worked in a mental institution in lieu of military service during the 1960s and he is certain that a fair number of patients were there because of spiritual issues that were not dealt with earlier.

Maybe one needs to ask for the gift of discernment to discern which is which?

My understanding...

D

DEADn Oct 31, 2012

From what you wrote, I would guess she was focusing too much on the devil instead of Jesus. Ditto to the ones in the lead post.
I have heard of evangelists who have preached about the devil from the pulpit. The entire sermon dealt with who he is and what he does, etc.
The fallout of these kind of sermons is that people's interest in the devil is stimulated to a point that is unhealthy; people experience more satanic attacks. They say it is unhealthy to focus too much on the devil, instead one should focus on Jesus.

Seems that what you are saying is when we focus too much on the devil then issues begin to arise as a result. Do you think that extends to when people want to say they fight the devil all the time v. the flesh?

I also wonder, what about those who spend so much time on end times stuff - do you think reality becomes a blur and anyone who comes forward with attributes of an antiChrist is labeled and then some go crazy as a result such as what seemed to happen with this woman?

Where is the guard on situations such as this? Christians should be the leaders of society but instead Christians are the joke of society and instead secularism and science have taken over as a result.

S

Sree Oct 31, 2012

This is a good discussion. But I believe not everyone will agree with my post. Not everyone here takes God's word as it is. Psychology is science and just like we do not agree on everything that Science throws at us, we cannot agree on all the things that Psychology throws as well. Science says we evolved from monkeys and I believe there is no one here who believe in this (I trust so!). At the same time we cannot say entire Science is lie, the whole internet forum came because of scientific development.

Now back to Psychology, I believe that there are people who have poor mental development. It is not demon possession, it is a disability like any other disability. At the same I do not believe in things like depression and anger syndrome of people who are mentally healthy. Because depression is a sin, Bible says clearly that we need to rejoice all the time . Bible does not tell us that rejoice all the time except if you are depressed. There is no exception here. Same thing for Anger, it is a sin. I believe we are getting fooled by these psychological terms, that make us believe that it is fine to lose our Joy in lord and it is fine to get angry. These are sins.

My post is not to hurt those who are subjected to so called Depression or anger illness in past or present. I just believe they are deceived by Psychology. I may not have answers for all the things that they have gone through in their life, but all I have is, 'let God alone be true and every man a liar'. Also I know a man who was rejected and crucified by those whom he came to save, yet in his final prayer he prayed that his believers may have the joy in him. Also another man who had thorn in his flesh and he still preached and practiced rejoicing in Lord all the time. These 2 men had all rights to get into depression or anger syndrome but they did not.

D

DEADn Oct 31, 2012

Sree

I agree that there are issues in psychology that I don't agree with but in psychological they use case studies to cite whether something is true or not and this is where they base their knowledge from.

Often I have taken what I know from psychology and put it against what I understand of the Bible and asked why does psychology push this and the Bible pushes this? Corporal punishment is one such issue.

I have often asked myself how much do I trust God's Word as we say it is God's Word. There are times I question certain principles and that is usually because I don't see the truth in it or have never seen it demonstrated in me or around me to know it is true or not. Does that make sense? It is similar to what psychology does when it does its examinations through case studies to see if something is true or not.

This is another reason why I bring up spiritual v. psyche.

Depression, I think is a symptom of sin but I don't know that I could call depression itself sin. Does that make sense?

It is my opinion that topics such as this should be discussed so we can be better balance in our spiritual lives knowing what is spiritual v. psyche so that we don't damage someone who is having issues. Many leave the Church and becomes atheists as a result of this unbalanced thinking which can end up in abuse or just mere disillusionment. I am a shallow example of such a thing.

John