endlessjoe
Sep 7, 2012
Interesting post brother. The toronto blessing i would say is pretty much opposed by most on here (myself included). So it would be wise not to go into these topics because of the division and arguing that can occur.
here is some info on the toronto blessing:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Toronto-blessing.html
Theres also a message by carter conlon on here rebuking the toronto blessing:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=2088&commentView=itemComments
Ok Brother Elias. Wouldnt want to drag the Church into troubled waters arguing on frivolities.
Like I said I know nothing about d "Toronto blessing" but I know there was a breath of "fresh air" that flowed thru d Body in d 90's of which am a product.
I respect Carter Conlon. Not sure I'll ever disagree with him on matters of doctrine. Most of his sermons have blessed my heart. And am deeply grateful for such men who had stood their ground and not
followed d bandwagon of our other 'brothers' who had followed "d way of d plains" (2Sam 18:23)
This thread is never intended to give credence to d "Toronto blessing" but rather a sincere attempt to trace d source of d "blessing" which trickled down to us in d Tropics.
I sincerely apologise for d disagreement this thread might generate and wil be grateful if anyone would help me understand d source of d "blessing" which I and others kids experienced in d 1990's.
Blessings brother,
be of good spirit. i meant no harm and if i did sound like that forgive me. i only posted this because i know that this is a big issue in the body that tends to divide rather than encourage. Brother greg recently posted a thread on the recent divisions that have been occurring here on SI Forums over silly matters that have not been productive and i feel that this is one topic that most definitely will end up in very heated, unproductive discourse.
To try to answer your question i cant because i have no knowledge but i will say that God is never left without a testimony and wherever there are two or more in His name He is there and He will quench the thirst of those who believe him.
blessings
Thanks Brother Elias! Guess I have to remove d Thread in d Spirit of Love.
Why would d Body of Christ suffer because of me?
D challenge now is how to remove or delete d thread.
Dear endlessjoe, perhaps a little context. I encountered Jesus at the age of 27 in 1991. I attended one of the largest pentecostal churches in the heartland, here in Kansas, a church called Full Faith Church of love. Many of the people who founded that church and attended that church came out of the Jesus movement of the 60s and 70s. They had experienced radical life changes and were on fire for Jesus. Every week we saw countless people come to Jesus in radical ways.
The presence of the Lord was mighty and the heart of the people was to see the lost saved. Now, they exercised the gifts and words were allowed to be freely given and tongues were spoken and interpreted. And then came the "Toronto Blessing," about 1994. One of their speakers were invited to come and there was much division in the church over the invitation. In fact it efectivly split the church. I left in 1995 to go home to Scotland for a year to share the gospel and at the time had been part of a home-group within this church. I came back at the beginning of 1996 and could not believe what I saw. A barren spiritual wasteland is as best I could put it.
I went back to my home-group which had been vibrant. It had had a rough format. We would worship the Lord, we would study His word, we would have application and we would finish with prayer. Bringing unsaved folks to these prayer meetings had been a primary focus. Now, upon my return from Scotland, there was no format. A video tape of some Toronto meetings was put on the tv. There, a man who was supposed to preach the word of God, just begin to laugh uncontrolably, and this is what the home-group people ( now different folks) did. A "mocking laugh" that small still voice said to me.
This church is now a shadow of what it once was. Pentecostal churches across the land fell, one by one, to this and other movements of the same kind. There was a mixture of the prosperity gospel, the name it and claim it movement and the health and wealth folks.
A beloved friend and friend to the ministry of SI went to Africa last year and bemoaned that he found that these kinds of doctrines, the doctrines of what God can do for you, had infiltrated much of that particular African country. Another well respected man, traveled far and wide in many African countries and reported what he had seen in regard to the prosperity Gospel. My own cousin who spent six years in Africa reported of how rampant sexual sin was among the " believers." I tell you brother, something was definatly unleashed in the early 90s that I believe choked off so much of what had been achieved around the world as a result of the Welsh revival, the Hebridean revival and Azusa street revival. And here we are today, we have reaped the whirlwind.
I pray brother Joe that the Lord blesses and continues to bless you with the true treasures of heaven, His presence, His joy, His peace, His love, His power. These are the true treasures of the Lord, in fact the Lord Himself is our exceeding great reward............bro Frank
Endlessjoe,
Brother I would not delete this thread for a second. Regardless of what the realities or lack thereof in Toronto were, what you testified to in the rest of your post I think will serve a purpose. I won't say what it is but just watch! I think you may be a bit surprised.
D writer regrets the possible controversy this Thread may generate and had decided to delete it.
In d original, it was not an attempt to give credence to d movement "Toronto blessing" but was a modest attempt to find explanations to d Spiritual blessings experience by d writer as a child in d 90's.
This decision to delete the thread was done in good faith after a sincere advice from another wayfaring Pilgrim.
D writer thinks we all should hold ourselves accountable for every action or comment that wil further widing d gulf in d Body.
D writer remembers that Apostle Paul wouldnt eat meat if it would pose a stumbling block to d faith of another Brother.
"Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." (1 Corinthians 8:13).
Any inconveniences & controversies thus far generated is highly regretted.
Lets continue to pray for Revival !
God's Blessings!
Ok Bro Sonsof Levi. Guess my story could be a "blessing". Would modify it, remove anything "Toronto" and post it again.
I dont kno much about d Toronto phenomena though I once had a book "Toronto Blessings," but can't remember ever finishing a chapter in d book. Know nothing about d leaders involved , their names or their history. This is not their story. Its my story!
I feel there was an opening in d Heavenlies for d Church in d 90's which is rare today.
I gave my life to Christ in 1993 at d age of 10 and I know that I operated at a level in d Spiritual realm completed alien to 10 year olds in my neighbourhood today.
In d early & mid 90's some kids like me were always concerned about their "Spiritual life," a word I've never heard teenagers use at d present time.
It was in d early & mid 90's, that brethren really practiced early mornin "quiet time" in d true sense of d word.
Then D Holy Spirit wil lead one to a scripture durin one's "quiet time" and he'd hear d Pastor preach on that same scripture during a fellowshp meetin later that day.
And if he dares testify to d coincidence after fellowshp, he'd be surprized to see how many persons whom D Spirit took to that same scripture in their quiet time.
This became so regular that some people resorted to it as a means of knowin when any Preacher is 'spiritually alive', since they seem to know what D Spirit has to say per day from their early mornin "quiet time."
These were d observations I made as a child. And I've never heard any teenager use d word "quiet time."
At dat time also,there was an atmosphere of zero tolerance 4 sexual sin in our fellowships.Most tyms when a brother or sister disengages from fellowshp, it is nearly always as a result of sexual sin. But today, someone living in sexual sin is not even afraid to handle our microphone.
At that Time also, d word "backslidding" was used very frequently for those who fell into sin. Then its normal to hear a brother say he didn't come to fellowshp because he's backslidden. Am not sure I've heard anybody use that word in d real sense of it in d last 10years.
As teenagers in High School then, we had Prayer prayer meetings where we sometimes confessed our sins to one another and literally casted out demons.
It was so widespread that d Commisioner for Education in my Abia State went public and announced that High sch students should desist from conductin deliverance sessions for their mates.
Am not sure any Commisioner for Education in Nigeria has had need to make such announcements in d last 10 years, since, obviously High Sch students of nowadays kno nothin of casting out demons.
On zero tolerance for sin, I remember an incident that happened in 1995. I was going on bus evangelism with a couple of other 12yr olds,I hid my bible in my cloth and teased my friends that am not wt any. When they got concerned, I brought it as I laughed at them. Then they asked me to go back home. They wouldnt go to preach with a liar. They wondered what was d difference btwn me and those we were going to preach to.
I still remember two other incidents in 1995 while waitin for my result into Junior High,when I went on bus evangelism with my partner. We always go in two's. I sat on my partner's lap & preachd.
During my sermon,I failed to completely quote John3:16. D passengers in d bus helped me complete d quote so I can continued d sermon. My partner was MAD at me. He's an albino,his face was red hot in anger.He said I put him to shame. On our way back, he sat on my lap & preached an "everlasting message." When we got to our bus stop and alighted,I was so excited that I offered to shake his hands but he warned me.
The next incident was d day I broke d jinx and went on bus evangelism alone. Was taken aback when a lady in d bus challenged me. She asked me to go and read my books & stop waistin my time preaching. Then a soldier in d front seat came to my rescue.He askd her to leave me alone & mind her own business, so I preachd unhindered. D conductor didnt charge me for d fare. When I got down,I was 10 feet off d ground with excitement that I didnt kno when I trekked 3miles back home. Couldnt enter another bus. Felt no bus in d world can contain my joy.
Its with sadness that I say that I've not seen any teenager on bus evangelism in d last 15years.And am sure Unless there's a Revival,non of these wil ever hav my kind of little experience.
So what was it that we had in d 90's that is absent today. I know what we experienced then was not a product of our effort. From d teachngs of Watchman Nee I understand that when a Christian breaks thru into a "blessing",other members of the Body too wil partake of it.
Could what we enjoyed have been a spill over of which movement. Who could have broken thru into d Heavenlies for d "blessings" for which we enjoyed in d Heart of Tropical Africa ?
Thanks Bro Frank. @Brother Elias, If my modified still has d ability to generate heated argument, let me be d 1st to know.
Brother endlessjoe, I noticed you are from Nigeria. This is off topic, but I am aware of the heavy persecution that has been happening there recently. I have heard there have been many churches bombed and raided. Have you experienced or witnessed this persecution? Are you anywhere near where these attacks have occurred?
4give my ignorance, but was this the place where people were laughing and barking like dogs and that kind of stuff? i am not a bible scholar like a lot of u, but if this is the same thing i am thinkin of, i have 2 say i have not yet come across anything like that in the bible. why do people think that is it biblical if its not in the bible. would not that make it extrabiblical, outside the bible? if so would not that be unbiblical? i dont mean to over simplify the matter but i also dont think most matters are that difficult to understand.
Brother Skeptic, I beg u under God not to drag us down that path. Having read my DISCLAIMER and seen d diffulty I have with this Thread, I dont expect anyone who loves d Lord and the Church to drag us into those "silly" arguments which genders strife.
"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." (2 Timothy 2:23).
"He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings," (1 Timothy 6:4).
I promise you I'll go out of my way to protect this Thread from descending into another heated argument.
All I need is someone who has an idea as to d source of d "wave" which flowed through the Body in d 90's & trickled down to us in d Tropics.
If we cannot behave ourselves in d Spirit of Love, am afraid we'll have to discontinue this Thread.
by SkepticGuy on 2012/9/7 2:46:49
4give my ignorance, but was this the place where people were laughing and barking like dogs and that kind of stuff? i am not a bible scholar like a lot of u, but if this is the same thing i am thinkin of, i have 2 say i have not yet come across anything like that in the bible. why do people think that is it biblical if its not in the bible. would not that make it extrabiblical, outside the bible? if so would not that be unbiblical? i dont mean to over simplify the matter but i also dont think most matters are that difficult to understand.
______________________
If you look up Toronto blessing through the search here on SI I am sure you will find some posts on it.
I do not know a lot about it. I know in my area there were some people who were getting carried away with the idea of being "drunk in the spirit" and yes they did behave rather strangely at the time but not to the extent that I have heard some went through.
I think this topic has been one that can bring up difficult and in some cases painful memories for people so that maybe why there is caution in discussing this topic. I know on a personal level there were some hurts that needed healing from that time but GOD is faithful and through HIS love all things are possible :)
God bless
maryjane
what r u talking about, endlessjoe? i simply made an observation that sum of this stuff i am not finding in the bible. why would you attack me over that? if u r convinced that this stuff that goes on is biblical then please share with me, dont attack me. i'm trying to learn and understand.
this website is crazy sumtimes. many times christians think they are being persecuted by the world for their beliefs. no, sumtimes christians r persecuted becuz of how they act toward those who r only curious and ask questions.
again, i ask, if barking like a dog is of god then why in my short time of reading the bible have i not run across anything like it in the bible? its possible i may have missed it, and if so, please show me.
maryjane, the kind voice of reason. :-)
The news of the persecution in Nigeria is true Bro Anamosa. But its happening in the Muslim dominated north of Nigeria.
Am in d Christian dominated South. The Islamic extremist group Boko Haram wants all Christians to leave d North.
Open Air crusades, Night vigils, and even elaborate weddings have almost died a natural death. On more than occasion, d militants walked into a wedding and shot dead d groom.
Many are now scared to go for Church services, since on several occasions, they've bombed Churches during services and shot dead those who were escaping on foot.
The only thing that can save the situation at d moment is a major outbreak of Revival or Christianity wil face extinction in Northern Nigeria.
There is hope in d horizon however. Before terrorism became a security threat in Nigeria, during a Prayer meeting in Quatemala South America 1995, an American Sister, Cindy Jacobs prophesied that a Revival wil break out in Nigerian Campuses and sweep through d country and in d end Nigerian streets wil become d safest in d World.
Am sorry Dear Brother Sceptic for reacting that way. What I dread is to be seen as having created a platform for another heated argument.
It will break my heart if in my simplicity, I'd unwittingly drag our brethren into an unproductive argument.
By sayin "those who bark like dogs," I believe you've already taken a position Brother Sceptic and I kno further arguments would neither help you or d entire Body of Christ.
My piece of advice to you Brother Sceptic is to make sure you dont bark " like a dog" no matter what happens, even if d Heavens were crumbling down, since u & I have not seen it in d Bible.
4give my ignorance, but was this the place where people were laughing and barking like dogs and that kind of stuff? i am not a bible scholar like a lot of u, but if this is the same thing i am thinkin of, i have 2 say i have not yet come across anything like that in the bible. why do people think that is it biblical if its not in the bible. would not that make it extrabiblical, outside the bible? if so would not that be unbiblical? i dont mean to over simplify the matter but i also dont think most matters are that difficult to understand.
You are correct. Paul warned against this.
1 Corinthians 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn NOT TO EXCEED WHAT IS WRITTEN, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.
The only time we see anyone with the mind of a beast is in the form of a judgement in the book of Daniel.
Though like it's been stated, this thread will boil down basically into two camps. Those who, like yourself, cannot find any Scriptural basis for any of these things, and those with an "experience".
There is hope in d horizon however. Before terrorism became a security threat in Nigeria, during a Prayer meeting in Quatemala South America 1995, an American Sister, Cindy Jacobs prophesied that a Revival wil break out in Nigerian Campuses and sweep through d country and in d end Nigerian streets wil become d safest in d World.
I wouldn't put too much/any stock in the words of a false prophet(ess). AT BEST it will lead to disappointment and disillusionment.
This discussion is locked.