Another Big name exposed. . .

It is with a heavy hear that i write this post. I read recently in a major Christian publication that another "big name" in ministry has "confessed" to being an addicited to booze and has been praticing a homosexual lifestyle. I'm not heavy hearted because i followed the mans teachings, rather i know of men and women who do who will be deeply affected though his "fall".--I weep for him as well. This man was hearled as a "New Testmant Prophet" someone with "Apostolic thrust" to his ministry! Oh how we need for only Jesus to be our hero! My question amist the maddess is this, and perhaps this has been asked before and maybe i am just showing my ignorance, but. .where is the discernment?? If those that he was in fellowship with also touted as "mighty men of God"--had any certainly this would have comeon thier spiritual "spidersense" right? Things like this are driving me more and more into the arms of men of God such as Ravenhill (whom i recently discovered!) and Torrey and Wilkerson. . .as David Wilkerson once said he "longed to know Jesus that way the Purtians had known him. Any way i hope i am not wrong in asking where our discernment is? If anyone has any help for me on this one, I would appreciate some answers.

Who was exposed?

"Things like this are driving me more and more into the arms of men of God such as Ravenhill (whom i recently discovered!) and Torrey and Wilkerson. . .as David Wilkerson once said he "longed to know Jesus that way the Purtians had known him."It is true. Those Puritans in days of old knew Jesus in a way that our 21st century church cannot understand until they forsake all worldy pleasures, get on their knees, crucify themselves with Christ Jesus and enter into the glorious Life through costly the blood of Jesus.

Those Puritans in days of old knew Jesus in a way that our 21st century church cannot understand until they forsake all worldy pleasures, get on their knees, crucify themselves with Christ Jesus and enter into the glorious Life through costly the blood of Jesus.Amen.

Who was exposed?Paul Cain

These guys call themselves prophets, and yet they didnt have enough discernment to figure out what was going on in Cain's life? The signs were "abundant", and yet they missed it? And Christians trust these men and their alleged "prophecies"?That is my point exactly. When do we stop "covering for our own" and start once again having a zeal for the Glory of the Father! I believe it was Henry Blackaby that once prayed for a man to be restored after he had fallen, we all fall and God forgives--however when he prayed he prayed that since it was a fall that caused a great reproah on the body--"I will pray for restration but in a way that brings Glory back to God." Not in a way that "preserves HIS ministry. Let's continue to pray for those that were under him and for the man himself--that he will be forgiven and healed of the mess in his life, we all have messes, but in a way that restores Honor to the name of the Lord.

Spitfire wrote:Paul CainI haven't heard of the guy. Apparently I am not missing much. :-(

These guys call themselves prophets, and yet they didnt have enough discernment to figure out what was going on in Cain's life? The signs were "abundant", and yet they missed it? And Christians trust these men and their alleged "prophecies"?It is the natural consequence of loosing the focus of any ministerial office. This is why so many have come to themselves and have left the movement all together. I know a man who was bacically blackballed for rebuking these people from within. he rebukes- and that was it. My observations of the movement as I have seen it is that they are out of balance in the whole Song of Solomon thing. They need to mix their love for God more with a fear of God and get the 'spiritual' PH level back in place. You can scald a person with an acid or a strong base. Many Christians have flipped to the other side and are preaching such a scalding repentance that it is peeling peoples skin (so to speak). This is what happens when folk come out of that movement angry. They need to really guard their heart. If we are out of balance on love the false feel-good prophesies and flakiness is going to abound; if we flip the other way we will preach repentance until people are Spiritual zombies. Human beings are extremists by nature. Add money to the equation and it all gets out of wack. There is a serious lack of discernment because there is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the prophetic office. Yet we must remember that we are not to call fire from heaven either. It is a critical balance that God has to strike at the moment to those who hear. I used to believe that all prophets called down fire, laid on their side and ate dung cakes (so to speak). I have found that God wants to speak what He wants to speak and it cannot be out of my heart whether it be blessing or curse. It has to be what God is saying. BTW I am not a prophet.God Bless,-Robert

Jeremiah 23:29 - "Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?"Chapter 23 of Jeremiah addresses this whole issue. When the Lord speaks His words will always cut and hew us down so that we see the areas in our lives that must be cut off (Ezekial 14:4). "Though the sorrow lasts for the night, the joy comes with the morning." There is always a time of despair before a time of joy, a time for the Lord to rebuke before He embraces. If we have idols in our hearts than how can the Lord bless? Once we are cleansed of the latter then the Lord will shower his blessings upon those who trust and obey.I've always been concerned about these "prophets" who only prophesy grain and wine and never repentance that leads to salvation. As in the days of old, so it is in our day.Test everything. The true prophet will speak from the very heart of God, and God's heart is for non to perish, but be brought to the place of holiness in Christ Jesus.Blessed be Your Name,-Eli

Eli,Good Word. Most of us 'want' to hear "smoothe" things. However, if something "smoothe" is not a Word from the Lord, it is to be rejected. God speaks of such prophets who prophesy a "false" word of comfort to the people(Jer. 5, Eze. 13, II Tim. 4). We must know the Word of God and His heart to be able to discern what truly is "thus saith the Lord", vs. "thus saith the flesh". Many "words" from the Lord are not comfortable, but they are necessary to bring correction/restoration and ultimately the conformation to the likeness of Christ. Those are the "Words" we should desire to hear. Blessings in Him, Cindy

Why does this topic even interest us? We must never focus on those that have fallen. We must restore but without sin. Is there such a thing as a big-named christian?

I was at 'The Call' in Kansas City back on New Years Eve of 2002, and Paul Cain spoke a 'prophetic word' and I just couldn't bear witness with it in my spirit and I felt like I was kinda judging him and discrediting the word he was sharing. Well then it wasnt almost a year later I went to 'The Call' in Dallas, Texas, and again Paul Cain spoke there, and while he was on stage a young women ran up there and started hanging on to his arm and saying things like, "Dont you remeber me", " Oh, dont act like you dont remember"... People finally came and litteraly drug her off of the stage, then a few minutes later she ran up there again and did the same thing, until they drug her off of the stage again, ever since then I really didnt bear witness with this man in my spirit, and how much more so should those he is closest to (Mike Bickel, Jack Deere...) have known and seen the other signs as well. One thing I will say is that they seem to have handled it Biblically as far as when they finally did confront him about his sin, and with his failure to repent. I am not bashing Paul Cain either, God knows I blow it everyday, yet His grace is still suffient for me to repent, turn, and seek heaven. Thank God.

2 things1. We are to judge the Spirits 2. We are to Represent Christ and his Mercy1. Answer Leave the Reproving to those Chosen by God to do so... I.E. A Wilkerson type Pastor.The Narrow Path Bro hams. Follow the Master and Listen to his Watchmen. PS. ever see a sheep try to take on a Wolf... Not a pretty sight. PPS. Im just a spotted little lamb 2