Laying on of hands and impartation of spirits!

L

lindi1208 Sep 17, 2012

Dear Saints

For a while now I have been pondering of the biblical practice of laying on of hands. I know that the apostles laid hands on believers and in the old testament Isaac laid hands on Jacob and many other examples! Today hands are laid on during ordaination of pastors and elders also hands are laid on the sick whilst praying for their recovery!

Some time ago I listened to a sermon on here I can not remember who preached it but the preacher said we ought to be cautious of people laying hands on us because false prophets or carnal pastors could transfer whatever spirits rule their lives onto you! He was clear that it was not possession but If that pastor was not walking up rightly the pastor could transfer a false spirit to the person whom his hands are laid on. Is this true and if so is it possible to transfer a demonic influence via the laying on of hands?

sermonindex Sep 17, 2012

"Is this true and if so is it possible to transfer a demonic influence via the laying on of hands?" Lindi1208

No, it is not possible and very unlikely; The devil cannot possess you or influence you by touching you, though you may be cursed by the wicked, and this can be real.

We possess God Himself within us, the Holy Spirit Himself who created all things. Evil men might try all day long, with no success upon a true believer to bring him or her under his power.

Curses might find their mark with one who is in rebellion, and defied God as His fortress and song; in sin. Jesus cried this on the way to Golgotha, as He said: "How I would have gathered you!"...and "Weep not for me but for yourselves!" as He knew that Titus would cruelly annihilate her and her children, which occurred @ 27 years later.

"As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come."..Proverbs 26

The devil may throw darts, and grab at you, but he cannot touch you, and your faith. This is where the truth of JESUS IS LORD! comes in.

Also, let us look at the Bible:

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Of the doctrine of baptisms,

and of laying on of hands,

and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit. Hebrews 6

The laying on of hands is a foundational Christian doctrine, and very important. Jesus did it often, especially when he healed, and blessed, and all of the apostles did it, and when they healed , or sent, or imparted . It is mere superstition to the unbeliever though, but ought to be common and fundamental to the Bible Spirit Filled Believer.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2012

Is this true and if so is it possible to transfer a demonic influence via the laying on of hands?

Yes it's true. The preacher is correct that it's not possession, what they are doing without their knowledge is they are assigning a spirit to you that is not of God.

I know people that have been pray for by a closeted homosexual preacher only to find that those that he laid hands started to struggle with same sex desires and they have no idea how that happened until they did a search of their travels and found out the preacher that did that was caught in motel room with another man. Once they were equipped with knowledge of what was going on, they immediately asked God to forgive them and the demon activity ceased.

Paul tells us to be cautious about not laying hands on anyone suddenly and Jesus tells us to be careful how we hear.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2012

"Paul tells us to be cautious about not laying hands on anyone suddenly and Jesus tells us to be careful how we hear."....Approved.

This "laying on of hands" "suddenly" speaks of ordination into the ministry; into "Pastor-ship, or, Eldership [ one and the same]...and the exhortation not to do so quickly, withpout proven fruit, lest that one and same Elder, as a Novice, come under the condemnation of Satan.....and thereby destroy and hurt others as an authority in the church...and ordained one.

"The preacher is correct that it's not possession, what they are doing without their knowledge is they are assigning a spirit to you that is not of God." Approved.

No spirit can be assigned to a Christian with power over him by touching another, or praying over another. I suppose that if you are incredibly weak, and prone to suggestion, you might believe so.

Consider the martyrs that were subject to torture and deprivation by satanic people....even the Roman Catholic Inquisition that endured for 350 years...where evil men had total control over others bodies....Were the martyrs attacked the same way?...There was certainly the door there for this to occur.

It did not matter how much they were physically assaulted, or how the devil strove to inhabit them....Nothing could touch their faith...Nothing....and either can be compromosed.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2012

This "laying on of hands" "suddenly" speaks of ordination into the ministry; into "Pastor-ship, or, Eldership [ one and the same]...and the exhortation not to do so quickly, withpout proven fruit, lest that one and same Elder, as a Novice, come under the condemnation of Satan.....and thereby destroy and hurt others as an authority in the church...and ordained one.

Yup!

B

beekpr Sep 18, 2012

I realize that this is a subject on which there are differing opinions and I do not desire to raise a forum dispute. However, Lindi, I do wish to do what I can to protect another believer from harm so I will share some of my concerns. I frequently lay my hands on those for whom I pray when I am in their presence if they feel comfortable with me doing this. I likewise feel perfectly at peace when godly believers whom I know lay their hands on me when they pray for me. This expresses our desire to have God impart the blessing for which we pray upon them. However I would not want someone to lay their hands upon me if I have any reason to doubt their spiritual integrity. There have been two occasions in my life in which I felt as if a false spirit was attempting to enter my being but was not granted permission and I was protected by God. On the first occasion I was present in a charismatic meeting because of circumstances not of my choosing. On the second such experience a relative of my wife was holding my hand and praying for me that I would receive a specific "gift" which he thought I should have. I felt an uncomfortable tingle in the hand which he held. I did not receive the "gift". (I already believed that I had the gift in the way that God had chosen for me to experience it) On both occasions I felt led to pray in my spirit for God's protection which He graciously gave. This is simply a relating of my experience when I sought the protection of God in situations which I did fully understand or have a direct Biblical "thus sayeth the Lord"to guide me.
I strongly favour the opinion that we make ourselves vulnerable to demonic attacks when someone evil who claims to be God's messenger has such close bodily contact with us and prays for us from a lying heart. I try to limit my companions in times of intimate prayer to to those whom I know are true believers. Even Jesus sent the unbelieving spectators out of the room on at least one occasion before He performed a miracle.

T

table Sep 18, 2012

Well yes I have been told that if I am having bad dreams etc then the laying on of my hands onto someone else is a mistake as I could be carrying a wrong spirit through disobedience etc
The one who is not in right standing with the Lord at the time can then not have a hedge around with complete covering so that person with the hole in the hedge will allow the demonic to enter unbeknowingly. It is scary to think that this situation can arise. I suppose it is essential to have the leader know his flock and those who are laying on the hands and know their background and from where they have come and what situations have arisen with them with others of late that could possibly be a stumbling block for others. Complete wholeness and repentance is essential I believe. Mind you were the disciples perfect, no, because even Judas I have been told would have laid hands on the sick????

T

table Sep 18, 2012

Also the one being prayed for and the one praying, it can have the same effect I suppose. If the one praying has not examined himself or in the light of revelation to a certain sin then the one he is praying for can transfer a spirit onto him maybe???

S

SkepticGuy Sep 18, 2012

I know people that have been pray for by a closeted homosexual preacher only to find that those that he laid hands started to struggle with same sex desires and they have no idea how that happened until they did a search of their travels and found out the preacher that did that was caught in motel room with another man. Once they were equipped with knowledge of what was going on, they immediately asked God to forgive them and the demon activity ceased.

i am skeptical of this. this sounds like hocus pocus supersticion 2 me. greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. what this 'example' intimates is that god can not protect his people, and that the devil can sneak in cause a believer to sin.

i think if sum1 is walking w/the lord they are protected by him.

friend, i am not calling u a liar. i believe people have told u this. i just dont believe its true. christianity is not about magic and spells and weird phenominons. it is about forgiveness of sins and setting people free. leave the voodoo to the witch doctors.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2012

i am skeptical of this. this sounds like hocus pocus supersticion 2 me. greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. what this 'example' intimates is that god can not protect his people, and that the devil can sneak in cause a believer to sin.

i think if sum1 is walking w/the lord they are protected by him.

friend, i am not calling u a liar. i believe people have told u this. i just dont believe its true. christianity is not about magic and spells and weird phenominons. it is about forgiveness of sins and setting people free. leave the voodoo to the witch doctors skepticguy.

I feel quiet certain that Satan is only too pleased when saints take the view that demons can be transmitted via other believers to other believers. Yet it is impossible to deny the concern one would feel if a brother in an unclean sin which leads unto death were to want to lay hands on you. No doubt discernment would be a help in such a situation. I have personally only ever allowed 2 or 3 men to lay hands on me over a period of 28 years. One thing to keep in mind is that demons are subject to the authority and power of Christ working in us. If we do come across a demon and don't know we have it may well work for the ill of someone. I once prayed for three young men who had all had difficult and unclean lives. As I approached one of these men (unsaved) I clearly heard the Spirit tell me not to lay hands on him. I disobeyed and as soon as I laid hands on the man to pray for him I clearly saw an unclean spirit move through the air and go onto the man opposite him (saved). As I watched this happen I also saw the face of the second man react with a troubled heart. It was a terrible lesson of disobedience to the leading and authority of the Holy Spirit. I agree with Tom that a believer cannot be possessed in their inner life because they have Christ in them. No demon is going to be able to reside along side the Spirit of God. On the other hand demons can find access through the mind so as to influence and drive a man to harm himself even if he is saved. This would be like a bird of the sky alighting on your external porch and making a mess with its body or else by virtue of making a noise etc. It may even build a nest as well and have a whole munch of squalling brats over. The best way to keep the house is to watch the porch.

L

lindi1208 Sep 18, 2012

Saints thank you for your responses which are abundant in wisdom! Laying on hands is an essential part of Christianity!

Armkelly wrote "Yet it is impossible to deny the concern one would feel if a brother in an unclean sin which leads unto death were to want to lay hands on you. No doubt discernment would be a help in such a situation"

This is what I was concerned about and you are right that discernment is essential! Your example was brilliant in how disobidience can open the door for the enemy to try to gain a foothold! I think it is important to always remember who we are in Christ! But certainly discernment should be practiced!

I am reminded of the many videos on YouTube that show believers being slain in the spirit or in fits of uncontrollable laughter! If we are truly born of God we can discern and avoid taking part in false manifestations and this requires obedience. But what about the babes in Christ and undiscerning believers is it possible that all those affected in the phenomena of being slain in the spirit and other ungodly practices could be unsaved or without understanding?

S

Sree Sep 18, 2012

i am skeptical of this. this sounds like hocus pocus supersticion 2 me. greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. what this 'example' intimates is that god can not protect his people, and that the devil can sneak in cause a believer to sin.

I do not want to comment on laying of hands, but I thoroughly believe that a Christian can be filled with daemon. Jesus himself said this -
Luke 11-24 to 25:- “When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.”

Here the Swept and put in order heart can be compared to a man who is cleansed by the Blood of the lamb (Jesus) but has not yet yielded his heart to the Holy Spirit, hence his heart is empty and Daemons can easily fill it. This is the main reason why many are still struggling with worse sins that even unbelievers are not committing.

The verse one who is IN me is greater than the one who is in the world is not applicable here because they do not have the Holy Spirit IN them.

i think if sum1 is walking w/the lord they are protected by him.

This you said is true but not everyone is walking with him. Walking with God means to have fellowship with God. To have fellowship with him you need his Spirit inside you.

S

SkepticGuy Sep 18, 2012

how can 1 be saved and not have the holy spirit? they have an empty heart? what is salvation 4 if we are left with a empty heart and no holy spirit? i'm new to all this, and am learning all the time, but this idea makes no sense.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2012

I do not want to comment on laying of hands, but I thoroughly believe that a Christian can be filled with daemon. Jesus himself said this -
Luke 11-24 to 25:- “When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.” sree.

Sweeping the house clean is not the same as being born again. It is worth remembering that Jesus delivered many from unclean spirits many if not most of them were Jews. The demon's left because they had no choice. I can't imagine that these men and women would have been inclined to continue in their sin which was often what the Lord said after deliverance "go and sin no more". Or else they were commanded to eat or else drink something. This eating and drinking points to the body and has to do with filling the body which has been cleaned. We need wisdom in all of this. This seems to agree with your observation of the heart. Yet this cleaning of the house is not the same as being born again. On the other hand those who are born again do need to be mindful of how unclean spirits justify their activities. Their authority comes from the activity of the individuals heart which is turned to wickedness or else is full of fear. The one oppressed or else possessed gives consent to these spirits by simply intending to do evil; or else by being weak minded and in their fear of being oppressed or else possessed yield their will to a spirit taking advantage of the situation. If this seems perverse then it is. Nevertheless this is how unclean spirits labour. It is also worth remembering that these same spirits are also themselves driven by one whose working is more terrible to them than the possible consequences of being homeless and vagrant; even Satan who has complete authority over them. Unclean spirits vary in strength and intelligence. They may always want to go back but they may not be able to go back, hence why they will seek out other stronger spirits to help them take back the house.

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. This is the measure of being born again. Demons cannot possess men and women in the whole man, spirit,soul and body. They can only labour in the flesh of either the heart (mind) or body (the house). The spirit is born of God and cannot be possessed by any other spirit. It is always in communion with God.

S

Sree Sep 18, 2012

how can 1 be saved and not have the holy spirit? they have an empty heart? what is salvation 4 if we are left with a empty heart and no holy spirit? i'm new to all this, and am learning all the time, but this idea makes no sense.

I do not want to comment more on salvation because I have my understanding of Salvation which is completely Biblical but many here who trust on man made theology will get offended.

One of the main difference between Holy Spirit and Evil Spirits, is Holy Spirit will not posses us but Evil Spirit posses us. Holy Spirit is very gentle and never takes control of things that we do not want him to take control of. To be filled by the Holy Spirit we need to seek for it. Many do not seek for the Holy Spirit or they seek with wrong motive and that is why they never receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus brought Grace and Truth with him, this Grace is not just forgiveness. Forgiveness of Sin was existing even before Jesus. The real Grace is Holy Spirit who frees us from the Power of Sin.

Salvation is 3 parts, to be saved from past sins (forgiveness), to be saved from Power of Sin (living by Grace) and to be saved from Presence of Sin (2nd coming). But may restrict with just first part because they secretly enjoy sin and do not want to be out of it.

S

SkepticGuy Sep 18, 2012

I do not want to comment more on salvation because I have my understanding of Salvation which is completely Biblical but many here who trust on man made theology will get offended.

so u are saying you have an unorthodox view of salvation?

M

murrcolr Sep 18, 2012

Quote: I am reminded of the many videos on YouTube that show believers being slain in the spirit or in fits of uncontrollable laughter!

I rememeber when I first heard reports of the Toronto blessing that it was beening passed on by touch eg laying on of hands.

Personally I can only watch video's on this blessing for a short time because I become aware of the spirit behind the toronto blessing trying to influence me.

S

Sree Sep 18, 2012

so u are saying you have an unorthodox view of salvation?

I wont call my understanding of Salvation is unorthodox. But it is definitely against few popular beliefs. I do not want to start a heated debate again by quoting something that offends another. I hope I answered you on the infilling of Holy Spirit and how a heart can be empty.

L

lindi1208 Sep 18, 2012

Colin wrote

"I rememeber when I first heard reports of the Toronto blessing that it was beening passed on by touch eg laying on of hands. "

This is exactly what I have been trying to understand. It seems a false spirit was imparted to undiscerning believers through the laying on hands! In some churches an adultrous pastor prays and lays hands on his members and soon enough most of the congregation has adultrous affairs or fornication becomes rampant in that fellowship! A little leaven leavens the whole lump!

What was going on in the Toronto blessing could everyone have been unsaved in those meetings? I am not saying that the believer can be possessed by a demon this is scripturally impossible! However it seems there are things that can influence a believer negatively e.g we talk of how harmful the tv can be and allows demonic activity into our homes thus the tv is an entry source that gives the enemy access or a foothold in the believers life! So an unclean pastor by laying his hands on an undiscerning consenting believer could possible impart a false spirit to influence or oppress the believer! Is this not a possibility!

Why would believers be exhorted to guard zealously their faith and not to fellowship with darkness if we could not be led astray at all?

L

lindi1208 Sep 18, 2012

If a pastor's sinful life is exposed in most instances the pastor is asked to step down and the loving process of restoration is started but the pastor can not serve that congregation. This means the pastor can not lay hands on the members until if by the grace of God that pastor is fully restored. The stepping down effectively protects the congregation wouldn't that be the case!

The church is spiritually protected from the sin in that one's life! Sometimes the individual is handed over to the enemy for the destruction of the flesh with hopes that they may repent! Although not a pastor the man in Corinth had to be disfellowshipped and Paul stated that a little leaven leavens the whole lump!