Submission or compromise? what is a wife called to

Just a little more clarification about the difference between submission and compromise:

Submission is when we give up our own thoughts and opinions and preferences, for the sake of another.

Compromise is when we give up God’s thoughts and opinions and preferences, for the sake of another.

Submission pleases God and hurts nothing but our pride. Compromise grieves God. In the short term, it may buy us peace or affection, but in the long run it ruins everyone involved. We have no right to please ourselves by demanding our own way. We have every right—and the responsibility—to please God by insisting, with strength and dignity and resolve, that He gets His way.

In the context of marriage, the wife honors God by submitting to the husband. Although note that in that very context the Bible says that we should submit to one another out of reverence for Christ! Both parties are to have humble, unselfish, considerate, polite hearts. But it is a special responsibility for the wife, of course. In matters when God really hasn’t spoken His desire, the wife should yield to the husband graciously. When the decision honestly just comes down to personal preference, she should cheerfully see to it that the husband is pleased. There’s room for discussion, of course, as long as the wife refrains from any manipulation or nagging. And there’s nothing “unmanly” about the husband changing his mind as a result. But once it’s clear that the husband is choosing a certain course of action, the wife does have a duty to support it in whatever way she can. Whether the topic is food, finances, or whatever, someone has to make the final decision, and that role should belong to the husband. However, if the wife has a conviction that God has spoken a different Thought on the matter, she has no right to violate her conscience and disobey God. That is sin. Even if someone occupying a position of authority gives us a direct order to violate our conscience, we must choose to obey God rather than man. Out of respect for authority—the principle of submission—we will say “no” without any sarcasm or rudeness or condescension.

In any event, this would still remain true: the wife, or husband, must refuse to obey [or be emotionally blackmailed by] ANYONE, if that action or decision or attitude would mean disobeying Jesus.

After all, human authority is only delegated from God, but “all authority in heaven and on earth” has been given to Jesus. Man has none, if it steps outside of His. (quote from a teaching on marriage)

Mmmm, boy did you say a mouthful with this one especially as it relates to feminists. Feminists would pounce on you like a back of rabid dogs with all kinds of buzz words for the religious mindset.

The biggest flaw I see in this is that the reason the feminist movement came to be is because men where making judgments based on their own situations and not taking women into consideration. Men, also, dropped the ball in their own responsibility leaving women abused in the processed and left with nothing. Thus women rose up to demand their rights in all areas of life. Tell an average woman what you just posted and you will swear they just sucked on a lemon.

What we read in the bible on marriage, is it something that still applies today in the same context or does it need to be updated to the contemporary. i.e. women are to let their husbands make the decisions v. husbands and wives should talk it out while the man uses that decison for his decision or the wife will do it for him if he cannot. Does this make any sense?

In the end, it is the Fear of God that is sorely missing in relationships as well as the lack of responsibility in relationships in order to make it work and be 'in order' as ordained.

My wife and I always talk it through and 'makes' me to make the decision since I am the husband. She also says I have a dark heart but I think it is because she still clings to Catholicism even though she doesn't practice it. More liberal women will not wait for the husband to make the decisions. After all, in the average household who pays the bills and get the groceries and lets the other in the know about it?

John

hey john
i have no doubt that feminists would be repulsed by this teaching. if you had shown it to me when i was first married and came to the Lord i would have been the first to say no way this is garbage but then i did not have ears to hear then or eyes to see:) now i read this and by the Holy Spirit leading i absolutely see the wisdom in these words. the article and quote aren't meant to be appreciated by the feminists, but rather are for those who love the Lord and are seeking to know His heart for themselves and their marriages. i think its safe to say that an unsaved feminists is pretty much going to ignore and reject most if not all of the Bible so no surprise there.

i believe that the Bible still does apply today absolutely but i will also say there are many who are going to reject it as being to hard, or to exclusive and that is their own decision.

i like the fact that the person who shared this took the time to point out that God wants us to love one another(spouses) and not attempt to dominate over the other person. in my own marriage there were some ugly battles waged over who was going to decided what until the both of us really got serious about living for Christ and letting Him be Lord of our life together. Now on any given decision my husband and i talk things out, he listens, i listen, we pray and in the end Jesus gives us union of heart and matters are decided. the times when we have remained at odds over a matter, i can honestly tell you that Jesus has worked in my heart so i can joyfully say to my hubby, ok lets do this as you feel led. there are times it has been a blessing and times it has been a struggle but together in Christ we have come through stronger and having learned. i love the fact that my husband views me as a helper now, someone he can come to, share with, talk with, pray with and not as an overbearing, strong willed, over opinionated persons, who has to selfishly get her own way or else. it would be easy to say something like, "i do the grocery shopping so we are eating Italian every night." but how selfish is that, i love my husband so its a joy to think of the things he likes, ask for his thoughts and cook hamburgers too:)

rdg

rdg, I agree with this article.
______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"In any event, this would still remain true: the wife, or husband, must refuse to obey [or be emotionally blackmailed by] ANYONE, if that action or decision or attitude would mean disobeying Jesus."
______________________________________________________________

I have seen females justify disobedience to the WORD because her husband's desire is thus and thus. People seem to forget a woman will also have stand before the judgment seat of God and give account and her husband cannot protect her from that.

Good post, rdg.

This is a little testimony that I shared on a blog a while back. I did get positive response on this from christian sisters that were serious about following God's word. No negatives so far.

The Two Headed Monster

Have you ever heard that anything with two heads is a monster? When it comes to christian marriage the biblical pattern is to only have one head, the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ is the head of man.

Ephesians 5:23-25
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"

In the day and age in which we live wives submitting to their husbands is considered an old fashioned travesty, but in actuality it is a blessing. I have been married for 41 years to my husband and have found that submission is the makings of a great marriage. Let me first say my husband did not ask me to submit to him, God did. And why, because there just can't be two heads on a healthy body.

Submission is not something that we women have to do, but something we get to do. There is a big difference. The man being the head, and the women next in authority is not a curse but a difference of office. One is not greater or less than the other, just walking in different callings.

I will just tell you in simple language what I do when a difference of opinion arises. I tell my husband what I think we should do, that is being a help-meet, then if he differs from my opinion, I leave the final decision in his hands, and look over the top of his head at God, knowing that if my life is consecrated unto Him, He will make my steps go where they are supposed to, and supply all my need according to His riches in glory. God is able to use circumstances, even when I don't necessarily like the choices that have been made, work out for my good. Now I will not compromise on morality, or dishonesty, but the day to day things can be left in the hands of God for the final outcome through my husbands headship.

Ladies how many of you have arguments all the time with your husbands over money? Most huh? Well first of all you don't need to buy stuff just because it's on sale. That, "hey I have to hit every sale to save money" can drive you into debt, that even goes for the thrift store. How many shirts, dresses, and pants do your really "need"? How many of anything? Do you and your husband have issues every time you try to balance the bills at the end of the month and he can't figure out where the money went to? Then give the check book over to him, and decide together what you will, and will not buy, and peace will begin to reign in your house. You might say well he will not be careful with the money, he won't give me what I need. Well we really don't "need" much, we want much. Now I am talking to women with christian husbands here. Your man that stands before God will only over spend a few times when he is in authority over the money before he will learn he has to be a good steward. He will have nobody to blame but himself. And you will have to resist the temptation to say I told you so. You need to allow God to deal with the situation. Tell him what you think would be the wise use of the money and then leave it to God and him. He will become the man. I would also suggest if you don't have cash, either save for it, or don't buy it. Debt is not even biblical principle.

Romans 13:8

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. "

How do I know, because I have lived it. My husband used to be mad at me at the end of every month and wanted to know where all the money went. I am sure I could have bought less books, my weakness, but the money just wasn't as big as he thought it was, and when I finally handed him the checkbook he found that out. It took him a few months to adjust but now his is an extremely responsible man when it comes to money, and in other areas too. The down side for us women is that we are now reduced to having to ask if things fit into the household budget, we don't like that much, we like being spontaneous, and going our own way. However when we are able to lay our pride, and covetousness down, we will see we really don't need much but love, and that will be given much more freely when the rest of our lives are in order. By the way I gave him the checkbook in 1986 and certainly don't regret it. He has truly become the man.

I have found that submission is a lovely word. I can tell my husband what I think in any given situation, and then walk away knowing that he respects my opinion, because I respect his, and he is very careful to try to make the right final decision. Sometimes my flesh doesn't like it when he says no about something I want, but I get over it. Now I am free from strife in my household. I am never looking back, and I certainly am not lacking any good thing. God made men to lead, it is in their natures, and when we de-masculate them by usurping their authority they become less than men, they become hen pecked, and their buddies make fun of them. We need to allow our men to be all they can be. As I said it isn't a curse but an office of differing degrees of authority. But I promise you that this will change the entire atmosphere of your home. You will find as you walk this out that your husband will find you more valuable than the most magnificent rubies, and as my little picture above shows he will bring out of himself for you the deep things he could never give before because he feels safe with you. you will fit together like hand and glove. Praise the Lord of His wonderful plan, and order.

Proverbs 31:10-12

"Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price [is] far above rubies.

The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life."

by ginnyrose on 2012/10/12 7:30:58

rdg, I agree with this article.
______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"In any event, this would still remain true: the wife, or husband, must refuse to obey [or be emotionally blackmailed by] ANYONE, if that action or decision or attitude would mean disobeying Jesus."
______________________________________________________________

I have seen females justify disobedience to the WORD because her husband's desire is thus and thus. People seem to forget a woman will also have stand before the judgment seat of God and give account and her husband cannot protect her from that.

Good post, rdg.

---
thanks
i have known some women like the ones you describe. They use their husband as excuse for all manner of sin, to hide it and to excuse it.

rdg

I would like to say one more thing here. My husband is a nominal christian, and how much more should it be an honor to submit to an on fire one if you are so blessed.

by Goldminer on 2012/10/12 13:21:15

I would like to say one more thing here. My husband is a nominal christian, and how much more should it be an honor to submit to an on fire one if you are so blessed.

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i do believe their is real joy in submitting to my husband and i do find gratification in doing little things that he likes and pleases him(something my non saved friends just don't get) i do feel blessed that my husband is a christian but he is still not perfect and so there are ups and downs:) we get through them in Jesus though. i do pray for those sisters in Christ who are not married to a saved man and still seek to honor their husbands and Christ in submitting when it does not go against what the Lord leads.

rdg

I just thought of something else that the Lord showed me to make my marriage better, don't just submit to what your husband says, but submit to what you know is in his heart. In other words, if you know that something you are thinking of doing would not be pleasing to him, don't do it. An example, he didn't tell me I couldn't go hang out with my girl friend all day and neglect my housework, so I really won't be side stepping submission. God looks on the heart. Our place is to be a wife that our husbands can safely trust in, and to do those things that are always pleasing to him.

I also wanted to relate a circumstance that speaks about standing firm in our convitions when they go contrary to what our husbands want.

My husband and I own a restaurant. When we opened it he wanted to server beer and wine. That goes strictly against my convictions, but not his. I told him I would not work there with him if he did serve alcohol. It made him mad, but I stood my ground, and he decided to open without beer and wine, and for several years before our business grew I had to listen to how I had tied his hands, and hurt our business. I still had to stand my ground, and try not to be agrivated by this constant comments. God has since then made our business very prosperous without alcohol, and he doesn't mention it any more. I believe that it costs sometimes to stand for what you believe, but to not stand is compromise. God brought us through that storm. Praise the Lord, and I didn't have to compromise my convictions.

What if a husband begins to become very selfish and doesn't take you into consideration for anything and in fact may eventually become controlling. This can eventually lead to physical or just mental abuse. How does such a thing fit into the role of submission? At what point does the wife take control of the situation because the husband is out of order or is she allowed to do such a thing?

This is a really tough question, my thoughts, and I don't say a thus saith the Lord on this, is, if there is physical abuse get away from it, but don't divorce, because it is not scriptural, unless he is unfaithful, even then only for hardness of heart. Do not submit to physical abuse, ever. As far as mental abuse goes, we have to put up with this every day, on the job, you name it. We are to take up our cross daily and follow Jesus. He was abused verbally by everybody around him, and he even suffered the physical abuse without opening His mouth.

I will say I have lived with the mental abuse a number of times when my husband was going through different stages in his life. God has shown me that if I refuse to think negative thoughts about him in my heart, to forgive him daily, keeping no record of wrongs, the peace of God keeps my heart and mind, and I am the one that walks in victory in spite of any comments that try to drag me down for the moment. I have found if I grumble about him and my lot in life in my heart at times it can become unbearable. So I refuse to do so. I praise and make melody in my heart and the Lord intervenes for me and the difficult times pass.

I also know that some woman live with just aweful mean spirited husbands. God never said the life would be easy, it never will, but do we want our reward here, or there. Those who have endured hardship as good soldiers of Christ will be bountifully compensated in the age to come, the word calls these times light afflictions.

Again if it was physical abuse I would get out of the vacintiy, but I would not divorce him because it is not biblical. I would then try to work it out to restore my marriage without physical abuse. That is just me. I know that if the husband is an unbeliever they have no ability to act like christ, I would spend much time in interecession crying out for his salvation. I see God changing my husband all the time, and I expect that one day he will be all God's. In the mean time I will praise my husband in my heart for all the good things he does, he's a great father, a hard worker, faithful, honest,etc. and honor him as the word says. I will minimize his bad points, and maximize his good points, and leave the rest to God. When I first started doing this I could find very little in my heart to praise him about, but the more I did this I can find very little in my heart to complain about. God is so good.

If a husband becomes controlling does a wife submit in every aspect?

I heard a story, which I posted in the past, of a women who was in a situation in the quiverfull movement. She had 8 kids and her husband gradually became more and more controlling and she said part of it was a result of their Christian belief. I suppose he got an ego trip? Anyway, she noticed that the 'lights' in her kids hearts was fading away and when she eventually separated from him her kids came alive again. How does a Christian couple deal and balance with such a situation knowing God hates divorce and only granted it because of the hardness of men's hearts?

I see this type of things talked about alot in non Christian circles and many times all I can do is ponder it v. sounding as if I would be saying 'woman, just deal with it' because that really isn't right. A person may as well say that the woman can live like the Middle Eastern Muslims as a result.

What do you think?

Very good, Goldminer.

Talk about verbal or mental abuse. All agree that it exists, no doubt about it. However, it is not only males that abuse verbally or mentally, wives can and do as well but the men are [usually] too manly to admit they are victims. The ranks of female abusers is rising, unfortunately. What used to be rare is becoming commonplace. Why is that so?

The tragedy of women abusers in the church is that too many of them are so religious, so religious the reports of their abuse is unbelievable! (Yes, I do know of such, unfortunately.)

God bless....I do not want to hijack this thread - just wanted to insert something here, that is all.

ginnyrose

by DEADn on 2012/10/13 5:59:25

What if a husband begins to become very selfish and doesn't take you into consideration for anything and in fact may eventually become controlling. This can eventually lead to physical or just mental abuse. How does such a thing fit into the role of submission? At what point does the wife take control of the situation because the husband is out of order or is she allowed to do such a thing?
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hey john
i read your post this morning and have been thinking on it since then. i think the thing that troubles me the most is the wording,"At what point dose the wife take control," that is the difficult part because if we are really honestly walking with Jesus then none of us "is in control" not even the husband. the husband is suppose to be praying, seeking God on matters and issues in the home and then as the head sharing those things the Lord places on his heart with his wife. the two who are now one can talk through these things, pray over them and together let the Lord lead them.(that is the ideal situation) now when a husband is not walking with the Lord and clearly is in sin then the wife should submit to him as long as it does not go against the Word of God, but if at any time he asks of her things that God clearly forbids she is to honor and obey God first and foremost. also if a wife sees areas of her husbands life where sin is taking control and he is walking further and further away from the narrow path, she should pray for him and share with him the things she is seeing. if he refuses to see, refuses to repent and continues or becomes worse then the wife needs to know Christ did not mean for her to be alone, she can and should go to brothers and sisters in the body of believers she has fellowship with and seek help in speaking with her husband. The rule of "take two or three witnesses(Matthew 18:16)" does apply even in a husband and wife situation. after all the Bible does not say "tell it to the church" except when the other believer is a spouse then just ignore their sin.

i know of one such story where this has happened and the husband was extreme in his control of his wife even putting her life in danger. she went to the church and they stood with her, the elder brothers spoke with her husband who refused to repent, refused to stop sinning and eventually left his wife, children and fellow church members. the church stepped in and took care of the wife, helped her with her children and her support. there was much prayer that the husband would see his sin and repent but instead he filed for a divorce and it was soon discovered he was seeing a younger woman.
the wife was not at fault for the divorce, she followed the Biblical teaching, she loved her husband and submitted to him until his demands began to directly conflict with those of the Lord. she did not take control of the situation, but she did seek Jesus on what to do and He lead her to the church family who was there to meet her needs and care for her.

so no a wife is not called to just blindly submit to her husband not matter what he does, she is to pray, love, and keep her heart soft toward him but if he is in sin and he is asking her to sin then she should never compromise and go along with his sin.

rdg

God made men to lead, it is in their natures, and when we de-masculate them by usurping their authority they become less than men, they become hen pecked, and their buddies make fun of them. We need to allow our men to be all they can be.

This is an essential insight. Respect is important to all men. This is not a pride issue, but one of identity. In fact, they will even suffer humiliation in the hopes of getting an identity worthy of respect! (And this is not to say that women do not also need respect!)

There are many kinds of marriage problems we can talk about, but in my experience, there is really only one that is truly fatal: Contempt or feelings of superiority towards the other spouse. If one spouse feels better then the other in even the slightest most benign way, the marriage is in real trouble.

Now it may come as a surprise to a few women, that the spiritual revival we believe will save our marriage, when mixed with feelings of superiority, can become the very thing that poisons our marriage. We want our spouses to have a more passionate Christian focus, and this is indeed a wonderful thing, but if there is the slightest contempt in our view of our spouse we have still not gotten to the real problem.

And if men want respect, they need narratives of respect from their wives, not narratives of failure, suspicion, and weakness. I remember during a low season in my life, when my wife only saw the best in me. Whether she had prophetic insight, or simply extra grace, she patiently and quietly preserved my role for the day when I would remember who I was...rather then constantly remind me of who I was not. So women, please be careful of the narratives you hold to about your husband.

There is one more thing to add to this topic of respect, and that is the subject of a mans private thoughts. A persons thoughts are their own. There are some women, even teachers, who say that men must confess their inner most thoughts to their wives. Demanding that a man, or a woman for that matter, report on all private thoughts is a very unwise policy, because it is rooted in a narritive that the man is not honorable and therefore not worthy of respect. I've never seen this religous type of requirement save a marriage, but in fact I've seen the opposite.

The concept here is simple to understand, but certainly more difficult to work out. Men need respect. And it is worth noting, that Goldminer demonstrated how a spouse can maintain respect without needing to compromise their conscience.

Blessings,

MC

On the topic of respect i do believe it is vital part of any relationship, especially so in a marriage. i let my husband know all the time how much i appreciate all that he does for me and our family. i let him know how important he is to me and to us. When the world comes at him i do my best to make sure he knows I am solidly in his corner and that no matter what we face it's going to be together. as far as sharing our thoughts with one another, there should never be an attitude of his "having to share with me" but i do let him know the invitation to listen is always there. Sometimes he struggles with things that come up in life and i know the best thing i can do is just hold his hand and quietly pray for him while he works things out with God. i don't need to know all the details to be there for him, sometimes just being there is enough. Love, support, respect, and a soft heart are some of the components in my marriage now that were lacking at one time. Through Jesus we have come a long way together and i realize that it wasn't ever about me changing him or controlling him it was all about Jesus being head of us both. Me dying to the flesh and allowing Jesus to change me and trusting that He would do the work in my husbands life to. What i like best about this article is the simple truth that i find, submission to my husband can bring real joy to my heart because in so doing i am honoring Jesus. Submission is pleasing to the Lord when done in Him, compromise done self is not.

rdg

rainydaygirl that is so well shared. The very heart of God. Thanks for sharing it so simpily and clearly so that even the youngest believer can understand and embrace it.

On the topic of respect i do believe it is vital part of any relationship, especially so in a marriage. i let my husband know all the time how much i appreciate all that he does for me and our family. i let him know how important he is to me and to us. When the world comes at him i do my best to make sure he knows I am solidly in his corner and that no matter what we face it's going to be together.

Beautifully expressed Rdg. How powerful is the last word, "together."

Blessings,

MC